Super Lumina trial

Hungryhalibut posted:

It's easy to be cynical. If people don't want to buy these expensive cables, then don't. But why moan about their very existence?

It's called an opinion, and you should know very well about them, as you seem to have quite the opinion on a number of topics!

This has been entertaining reading.  Personally, I wonder if what irritates the SL unconvinced is the idea that it is 'as bigger difference as adding / changing a black box'.  I'm not necessarily arguing with that relative to the systems SL owners have, but I would say is that for that to be true, in a positive sense, the foundation has to be right to start with.  As Howard Marks once said of weed 'It enhances what I like'.  I would suggest that neither weed, nor SL, will transform something that is unfavourable, just OK, pretty good, but with some complaints, into something demonstrably better in the same way that a change of box and / or speakers can in different circumstances.  Whether you have a budget, or kick-ass-could-spend-no-more-if-I-was-Bill-Gates system, cables and mains tweaks can enhance it, or damage it, but never fundamentally transform it.  IMO!

fathings cat posted:

Indeed, I met him at a book signing in Norwich - it was 11.00am and he sat there with a bottle of whisky which he slowly consumed whilst signing books, he made very little sense! 

Gary

Yeah, that seems predictable.  Further confirmation that he'd fit right in around here. ;-)

i have SL  between NDS and 552 and also snaxo SL between 552PS and snaxo supercap. these cables enhanced musical enjoyment of my system substantially. i have no idea whether other cables could have done the same, better or worse -- but I don't really care either.

FWIW, my NAT01 uses 'ordinary' lavender 5-5, so does my LP12/superline (4-5DIN) -- and i am very happy with these sources.

(un)fortunately, i cannot afford SL DIN-XLR and 4 lengths of 7m SL speaker cable -- so i guess where i am is the end of the SL road for me. if i could afford them, of course i would have got them by now for sure.

the above makes entertaining reading -- but at the end of the day, trying to argue about specific personal preferences seems rather futile to me... but i guess its all harmless banter anyhow...

enjoy

ken

I'm like Analogue I used to think it implausible that changing a wire could really make a difference but having tried a few different things over the years and even bought a couple I'm good that changing wires can fine-tune an already well matched system.   But:

- IMO changing a wire will not fix a fundamentally floored system.

-  If you buy Naim boxes the wires in the box are entirely fit for purpose.

- it's sure as hell not worth getting stressed/emotional about let alone falling out with people.  

Regards,

Lindsay 

My lab coats and rose tinted glasses never arrived. However I still managed to perform the scientific experiment of using my SL IC and not using my SL IC then using my SL IC again. You can now all sleep well knowing my consensus scientific findings have proven that the SL IC has indeed improved SQ in my system. I will not be selling mine after all. Without the SL IC things seemed more compressed and less dynamic. Things have a bit more air around them with. Would I say it's worth the price? I'll leave that up to the individual to decide for himself. I would recommend that if you're thinking of adding one to have a demo and conduct your own experiment. Enjoy it. Now is there a SL SC thread? I bet those really will change things in combination with the SL IC.

spurrier sucks posted:

My lab coats and rose tinted glasses never arrived. However I still managed to perform the scientific experiment of using my SL IC and not using my SL IC then using my SL IC again. You can now all sleep well knowing my consensus ...... Now is there a SL SC thread? I bet those really will change things in combination with the SL IC.

Just on the side lines soaking up information, nice System you have!

Please help me, I still lack the complete understanding.

Is this correct:

With Naim's Marque Separates, in an Passive System, the Loom would consist of:

Front end Source ~ SL- 5 pin/Din > Pre

Tail end ~ 250 DR > SL- Speaker Cable

Last but not least, the Middle! 

The SL- XLR!

Is this IC between Pre & Amp?

 

And how does this Change with Naim's 4 Box Wonder?

Source?

Xps DR

272 Streaming Pre-Amp

250 DR Amp

Thanks In Advance!

Allante93!

PS. Just in case, I come into some $$$!

 

ken c posted:

i have SL  between NDS and 552 and also snaxo SL between 552PS and snaxo supercap. these cables enhanced musical enjoyment of my system substantially. i have no idea whether other cables could have done the same, better or worse -- but I don't really care either.

FWIW, my NAT01 uses 'ordinary' lavender 5-5, so does my LP12/superline (4-5DIN) -- and i am very happy with these sources.

(un)fortunately, i cannot afford SL DIN-XLR and 4 lengths of 7m SL speaker cable -- so i guess where i am is the end of the SL road for me. if i could afford them, of course i would have got them by now for sure.

the above makes entertaining reading -- but at the end of the day, trying to argue about specific personal preferences seems rather futile to me... but i guess its all harmless banter anyhow...

enjoy

ken

Get the speakers closer, 3m range

I think Lindsay has it spot on.

What is it about posh cables that divide some and enrage others. After all, they are only bits of wire. Maybe that is the issue. The perceived poor VFM combined with a healthy dose of scepticism.

It would be interesting to separate the SL sceptics from the SL advocates and compare these sets of individuals to those that have carried out a proper demo (preferably at home in their own system) and those that have only read about SL and are only aware of the price, to see if there is any commonality between these two sets of individuals.

I suspect however the waters would be muddied but those who have good middle to upper Classic systems that have been well set up and those that don't.

alanbass1 posted:

Tonight I decided not to listen to music but just look at the SL. The 'inky black' silence was something to behold

Mr. Alan Bass, I'm assuming with the 272, one only needs 1 SL IC.

The XLR IC!

If so, is it between your 555PS DR & 250 DR, or 272 & 250 DR?

Thanks In Advance!

Allante93!

PS. The Digital source can plug directly into the Digital Streaming Pre-Amp.

Is that correct?  

Allante93 posted:
alanbass1 posted:

Tonight I decided not to listen to music but just look at the SL. The 'inky black' silence was something to behold

Mr. Alan Bass, I'm assuming with the 272, one only needs 1 SL IC.

The XLR IC!

If so, is it between your 555PS DR & 250 DR, or 272 & 250 DR?

Thanks In Advance!

Allante93!

PS. The Digital source can plug directly into the Digital Streaming Pre-Amp.

Is that correct?  

All you need to do is look at the manuals and connection guide. 

Hungryhalibut posted:
Allante93 posted:
alanbass1 posted:

Tonight I decided not to listen to music but just look at the SL. The 'inky black' silence was something to behold

Mr. Alan Bass, I'm assuming with the 272, one only needs 1 SL IC.

The XLR IC!

If so, is it between your 555PS DR & 250 DR, or 272 & 250 DR?

Thanks In Advance!

Allante93!

PS. The Digital source can plug directly into the Digital Streaming Pre-Amp.

Is that correct?  

All you need to do is look at the manuals and connection guide. 

{ Wow! }

Thanks Big Fish!

Just thought someone as well versed as yourself, could simply answer the question.

Sorry if I annoyed you HH!

The question was directed towards alanbass1!

Enjoy your music!

Allante93!

PS. I thought that was the purpose of the Forum, was to gather as much information as possible, and when it comes tome to unleash that hard cold cash, one can make a better decision!

That's all HH!

Have a nice Day!

Allante93 posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:
Allante93 posted:
alanbass1 posted:

Tonight I decided not to listen to music but just look at the SL. The 'inky black' silence was something to behold

Mr. Alan Bass, I'm assuming with the 272, one only needs 1 SL IC.

The XLR IC!

If so, is it between your 555PS DR & 250 DR, or 272 & 250 DR?

Thanks In Advance!

Allante93!

PS. The Digital source can plug directly into the Digital Streaming Pre-Amp.

Is that correct?  

All you need to do is look at the manuals and connection guide. 

{ Wow! }

Thanks Big Fish!

Just thought someone as well versed as yourself, could simply answer the question.

Sorry if I annoyed you HH!

The question was directed towards alanbass1!

Enjoy your music!

Allante93!

PS. I thought that was the purpose of the Forum, was to gather as much information as possible, and when it comes tome to unleash that hard cold cash, one can make a better decision!

That's all HH!

Have a nice Day!

I wonder if he yells at the kids in the neighborhood to get off his lawn? HH Wilson?

Hungryhalibut posted:

It's easy to be cynical. If people don't want to buy these expensive cables, then don't. But why moan about their very existence?

Some folks like to moan because they want to invalidate the experiences of those who heard a significant difference with all these costly cables. Although these group of people may not have experience with the cables, they appear to want to impose the idea that these cables will not make an ounce of difference (or very small difference) and regard those who think otherwise as @#@&.

You can't prevent the moaning as everyone has their own beliefs or opinions and for the fact that some just like to moan.

ryder. posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:

It's easy to be cynical. If people don't want to buy these expensive cables, then don't. But why moan about their very existence?

Some folks like to moan because they want to invalidate the experiences of those who heard a significant difference with all these costly cables. Although these group of people may not have experience with the cables, they appear to want to impose the idea that these cables will not make an ounce of difference (or very small difference) and regard those who think otherwise as @#@&.

You can't prevent the moaning as everyone has their own beliefs or opinions and for the fact that some just like to moan.

I hear you loud and clear!

In fact, the Naim Forum was part of this Group!

From the Active 500 Club, down to the Nap 100. 

Why, because Naim didn't buy into these posh Interconnects and Speaker Cables.

Way back in 2014, the Active 500 Club was rocking Naim's Standard ICs and Naca A5.

But Naim realized that these Cables can make a substantial difference in SQ.

Hence, the DR & SL Technologies!

I've been a believer, that Cables can make a difference.

The Final Link!

"Why do we need Better Cables?

 
Continued Innovation In Audio Equipment Drives the Need For Higher Quality Cables
 
 
We should examine the work of a bunch of pioneering guys – Peter Walker, Ivor Tiefenbrun, Julian Vereker, Bob Stuart, Mark Levinson, Dan D’Agostino, Ed Meitner, Dave Wilson, Alon Wolf and Yoav Geva. Who are these guys? What did they do to awaken the interest of Joe Reynolds (Nordost), George Cardas (Cardas Audio), Dr. Ray Kimber (Kimber Kable) and Edwin van der Kley (Siltech), leading lights in the cable industry?
 
The Naim Forum, is just late to the Party.
 
That's all!
Enjoy your Music!
 
Chord, TQ, Nordest, Kimber, etc..
Allante93!
 
PS. Chord & Naim has had a cozy relationship, before these posh Cables hit the Market!

naim have always known that cables make a difference 

Otherwise they would not insist that we absolutely must use Naim only SNAIC and Burndy, and also NACA5 and still till now only Superlumina as a speaker upgrade cable.

They also advise to get the naim intended performance to use Naim only interconnects.

analogmusic posted:

naim have always known that cables make a difference 

Otherwise they would not insist that we absolutely must use Naim only SNAIC and Burndy, and also NACA5 and still till now only Superlumina as a speaker upgrade cable.

They also advise to get the naim intended performance to use Naim only interconnects.

Right you are again: Analogmusic!

Naim Forum 2004:

"I spent many months toying with Chord, Nordost and the rest. Each time I thought - hang on I'll just try the NAC A5 back in to see out of interest, same with interconnects - guess what - each time I thought BLOODY HELL that’s how it should sound and went back to the standard - something may sound "improved" but every time I've waited a few weeks - gone back to the Naim stuff and the magic comes back.
Martin
Now all standard mains, interconnect and speaker cable (and its cheap as well)"

Guess what, same conversation in 2014:

Allante93!

PS. I'm no moaner,  I believe in better cables!

The same as you Analog! 

When I tried a SL between CDX2/555ps and 282 I could hear the gains but something important was lost, playing through SC/250/NBLs. Since then the estimation of how long SL takes to run in has increased and I've changed my amps to 552/500 so a reassesment might be worth doing, however...

The digital front end currently involves a Rega DAC, I won't be using SL with that but I'm awaiting developments. I would have bought an NDS but just don't feel any urgency. That leaves the turntable as a possible source via a superline/SC, that is good enough to warrant the cost of SL all the way through but Naim don't make the speaker cable with a suitable plug for my NBLs (no room for bananas) so the speaker cable isn't viable, there is also various reports that an analog front end doesn't gain that much and that the DIN to Canon cable isn't the best one to do first. That leaves the possibility to try an interconnect again when I get round to an NDS (or its replacement if that happens first). They might have replaced SL too by then.

 

I use SL cables on my SL2s. I have them 5" from the wall, which is where they were when I had A5, and the distance I found to be optimal. When I tried SL I had already decided that I would not move the speakers further forward, and that if the SL did not fit I would not try it. But by tipping the speakers forward I was able to fit the plugs ok. The wires are very floppy and they bend tightly so that they miss the wall by 1mm. I spoke to Naim about NBLs once and they suggested that they be positioned 6" from the wall, which with their 18" depth made them too big for me to accommodate. Anyway, you don't have to think that you can't try the cables. 

I am probably one of the few people here, that has had a harder time justifying the price of the power supplies, at least  the 555 that costs more than my Ndac or the cd x2. I am not sure I would have paid the regular price for a 555, but fortunately I was able to pick of a used 555 for a very good price a few years ago. And then there are the people that use to 555s on the cd 555 or nds!!!!! b

Claus 

Simon C posted:

Geoid?

 

s.

That might be a little to far to the right!

More descriptive of my second System:

Primare Pre 30 > Arcam P1 Mono Blocks > 

Rosewood Vienna Acoustic Baby Grands

Allante93!

PS. I Find a non Naim 2nd System, keeps one grounded, and intact with the Evolving Naim Sound!

I hear you Hugh! Elliptical Earth!

Allante93 posted:
I hear you Hugh! Elliptical Earth!

BTW, just a point; it's Huge (because I'm quite small of stature!  )...  I'm not actually Hugh!

But it's no problem at all, just an observation.  I'm not offended (my father was Hugh, and I have great respect for him). 

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