Superline capacitative airplug

Hi all,

i've recently been experiencing the magic of the Superline z-airplugs, marred only by RF breakthrough. The solution seems to be the use of capacitative load plugs. 

I have previously felt that the standard capacitative plugs take some sparkle away from the music, has anyone any experience of using the Airplug versions of the capacitative load and did they find a substantial difference in moving to them from the standard capacitance plugs? Has anyone had success with loading screen below 1nf?

 

thanks for your collective wisdom

 

jim

Original Post

I had occational radio breakthrough (only audible when not playing a record) when I first got my superline. At the time I was using a 17D2 in a Rega RB300 on a Townshend Rock 2 which sat on an Origin live basic stand (a steel and mdf affair). I initially put it down to the Rega's earthing arrangement and started looking around for another arm. This search ended in a 1 year old Aro which I persuaded to fit on the Rock (losing the trough after I'd compared with and without) and revealing just how grey a Rega 300 sounded but unfortunately it didn't cure the radio pickup. A 1nF plug reduced it but sat on the sound somewhat ( R plug was 470 Ohm). Naim suggested trying a 470pF plug which I found nearly as effective as the 1nF and I prefered it to no cap plug too with the 17D3 (which replaced the 2 after I forgot to lift the arm and went away for 2 weeks).

Next step was to turn the room around, which involved moving a door way and I installed a dedicated spur at the same time. Radio pickup was still there however and only went when I put everything on Fraim Lite, I think the steel racks must have been a factor but earthing them didn't seem to make much difference whereas replacing them did, odd! At some point I replaced the standard plugs with Air plugs but I kept using a 470pF with 470R even after there was no more radio pickup. 

Now using a 100R Z plug on its own with a transfiguration Proteus and not a whisper from Radio Moscow.

Marksnaim posted:

What front end are you using Asprin? I'm intrigued by the z plugs and had thought about trying one with my Superline. I've got LP12/Ekos/DV XX2. I don't use a capacitance plug but do suffer the odd bit of East European Radio breakthrough some evenings.

Hi Marksnaim, as with Yeti42 I'm also using a hotrodded Townshend Rock II with a ESCo (nuded and retipped) Denon103R. The Z-Airplugs are a revelation, with a XX2 I wouldn't hesitate. One of the better £160 I have spent.

I have a XX1L and it sounds superb. General consensus for a Dynavector seems to be 453R with 17D3s preferring 470R    

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Aspirin - I used to get Russians poking their noses in.   This is what I did - disconnect the phono lead from the Superline and attached it to the terminal on my 282. 

Regards,

Lindsay

I connected the earth on my pre with the Superline and that helped a bit but it was still noisy. Thanks Lindsay, I'll try that.

yeti42 posted:

I had occational radio breakthrough (only audible when not playing a record) when I first got my superline. At the time I was using a 17D2 in a Rega RB300 on a Townshend Rock 2 which sat on an Origin live basic stand (a steel and mdf affair). I initially put it down to the Rega's earthing arrangement and started looking around for another arm. This search ended in a 1 year old Aro which I persuaded to fit on the Rock (losing the trough after I'd compared with and without) and revealing just how grey a Rega 300 sounded but unfortunately it didn't cure the radio pickup. A 1nF plug reduced it but sat on the sound somewhat ( R plug was 470 Ohm). Naim suggested trying a 470pF plug which I found nearly as effective as the 1nF and I prefered it to no cap plug too with the 17D3 (which replaced the 2 after I forgot to lift the arm and went away for 2 weeks).

Next step was to turn the room around, which involved moving a door way and I installed a dedicated spur at the same time. Radio pickup was still there however and only went when I put everything on Fraim Lite, I think the steel racks must have been a factor but earthing them didn't seem to make much difference whereas replacing them did, odd! At some point I replaced the standard plugs with Air plugs but I kept using a 470pF with 470R even after there was no more radio pickup. 

Now using a 100R Z plug on its own with a transfiguration Proteus and not a whisper from Radio Moscow.

Cheers Yeti42...I have a modded rock so very relevant (I think we may have previously compared notes on the bellows upgrades to the Rock and your experience with the platter elsewhere).

I have Isoblue racks but wonder if our experience is due to the effect of the large steel top plate on the Rock? .

The 1nF plug is working well but as you suggest is taking some of the life out of the sound. Was the bigger leap moving from the standard plugs to Airplug for capacitance or reducing the capacitance?

Cheers

Jim 

Hi Jim,

Radio breakthough into a Superline can be a result of any of the loading sockets being open. At least thats what happened when I had the Superline at home for a demo. If you dislike the effect of capacitive loading, try the highest value impedance plug instead. If you like what you hear, you can go for a second Airplug, perhaps with a really high value like 100k Ohms. This would close the circuit without loading the cartridge down very much.

This is a very interesting thread for me. I too have a Superline and after quite some time, am still experimenting with load settings.

ASPRIN, I assume you were running without any capacitance load plug until Radio Moscow came through. This would give you a capacitance of 100pF which is quite high and might itself sit on the music. I was surprised you felt the plugs were the reason for this. I too am waiting to find the right settings (for me) then order the Z plugs. I started off with plus of 100R and 1pF. I may yet end up back there with my Apheta cartridge.

I have found that after changing plugs, the results take a little time to be realised. It is not like flicking a switch so this adds to the time required to experiment. For me 500R is too much and the sound is very bright. Even adding more capacitance to tame this helps a tad but the overall sound suffers. I will try the settings with no plug in the capacitance slot over the weekend. I think the most I have used so far is 10pF.

I only just found out that the cap plus can be replaced with an R plug. Then you have the calculate the overall R using the 1/over formula. If you do this, does this mean the capacitance loading is simply the Superline default of 100pF?

BR - Dave

While I am quite sure one of the reviews I read mentioned the possibility of using two resitive plugs at the same time to achieve the optimal loading, the manual states: "Always ensure that resistive and capacitive load plugs are inserted in the correct socket". Perhaps someone with enough insight into the Superlines constructions can help us here?

 

I'm using a hicap DR to power the Superline. Would the move to an olive supercap address the RFI or provide much of an upgrade? 

I didnt know about the ability to use different resistors in parallel. My limited maths suggests that even using a 1000k in parallel with my 453 plug is going to change the loading considerably. 

I'd like to try a reduced capacitance loading on an airplug, but £160 is a bit if a gamble

Isoblue shouldn't be exacerbating anything so a rack change won't help. Moving the system might, metal can focus the radio waves like the elements of an aerial so changing the distance to pipes and power cables in the walls can have an effect but it's a bit of a long shot and not always possible. If you think the Rock is an issue put a thick cutting boads under it to increase the gap to the box below, just to hear if it works, you can get some leg extensions for the isoblue if it does. You could also try reordering the stack(s) to change the fields felt by the individual components.

1kOhm in parallel with 452 will give near as damn it 312 Ohms. but the plugs are labled for the resistance they give in parallel with 10kOhms so it won't be quite that.

supercap connected via burndy can exacerbate a tendency to RFI instability between the supercap and the superline, especially dependent on the cap loading of the cartridge. If you think your superline sounds a bit off, then power cycle the supercap to see if it stops it ringing. Or go back from burndy to standard connection (even with supercap), which doesnt suffer the problem. 

(At least it did on mine, which was one reason I changed to the Linn solution. And it has happened to friends SL/SC/Burndy too)

Aspirin - similar setup and problem for me as well. I mucked around with capacitance plugs as well but felt that it crushed the sound a little. Best solution for me was to power the SN2 with the HiCap DR and then power the Superline off the SN2. This cured the electrical hum that had been there. From what I've read elsewhere, the Superline seems to have interference/humming issues when powered off the HiCap DR directly. That was certainly my experience. 

asprin posted:

Hi all,

i've recently been experiencing the magic of the Superline z-airplugs, marred only by RF breakthrough. The solution seems to be the use of capacitative load plugs. 

I have previously felt that the standard capacitative plugs take some sparkle away from the music, has anyone any experience of using the Airplug versions of the capacitative load and did they find a substantial difference in moving to them from the standard capacitance plugs? Has anyone had success with loading screen below 1nf?

 

thanks for your collective wisdom

 

jim

470pF is the one to use. Negligible loss of HF unlike the 1nF and it often takes out all the RF too. So all the benefits of the 1nF without the drawbacks.

 

KR

Peter 

Cymbiosis posted:
 

470pF is the one to use. Negligible loss of HF unlike the 1nF and it often takes out all the RF too. So all the benefits of the 1nF without the drawbacks.

 

KR

Peter 

Peter, I know we have been discussing this offline by email but I have to add. I tried no cap plus last night on the Superline which means the default 100pF capacitance. I know I am amateur at this yet but this set up really killed the music stone dead. No note sustain, claustrophobic and lifeless. I had 100R on the other socket.

As I read it higher cap settings have this effect and can be use to tame "too much treble". So I am surprised that you would recommend 470pF. I guess the rest of the system matters a great deal too. My observations are with my Rega deck and Apheta1.

Did anyone answer the OP yet if anyone makes better (ZFoil) cap plugs as well as the R plugs?

Dave

 

Hi Dave, my understanding is that Peter is recommending a bespoke airplug with half the capacitative value of the current lowest standard capacitative value. My guess with your experience is that the R value is maybe too low? 

I just wanted to find out if whether or not a loading plug was of the Airplug design made any difference at all when it came to capacitative loading . i know it makes a big difference with resistive load, although my experience here is with the z foil plugs not straight airplugs, there does not seem to be an equivalent z-foil for capacitance plugs)

Bodger posted:
Cymbiosis posted:
 

470pF is the one to use. Negligible loss of HF unlike the 1nF and it often takes out all the RF too. So all the benefits of the 1nF without the drawbacks.

 

KR

Peter 

Peter, I know we have been discussing this offline by email but I have to add. I tried no cap plus last night on the Superline which means the default 100pF capacitance. I know I am amateur at this yet but this set up really killed the music stone dead. No note sustain, claustrophobic and lifeless. I had 100R on the other socket.

As I read it higher cap settings have this effect and can be use to tame "too much treble". So I am surprised that you would recommend 470pF. I guess the rest of the system matters a great deal too. My observations are with my Rega deck and Apheta1.

Did anyone answer the OP yet if anyone makes better (ZFoil) cap plugs as well as the R plugs?

Dave

 

The 470pF has a good and proven track record. It is about half the value of the stock 1nF as supplied with the Superline. The Apheta is not a cartridge I have experimented on to any great degree, so an email to Steve Hopkins or Steve Sells may help you.

I have ordered Naim Airplugs with some cap loads in the past FYI.

 

KR

Peter

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