Support Shelf for NDX

Adam Zielinski posted:
Mike-B posted:

 

NDX also means ND anything or any streamer type unit,  its going to happen anyway (sometime) so I would like to make it to a design that works & avoid stuff that does/might degrade SQ.   My questions to the forum are for those that have experience of adding a support shelf (bought or DIY)   (a) Does a support under a streamer actually make a sonic difference (honesty please)  (b) whats the best shelf material;  glass, slate, plastic, wood  (c) ditto support types, spikes, inverted dome nuts, washer/balls, sorbothane, hard rubber,  fixed firmly to the shelf or not.  

............  

Yes - it does. I've asked my local supplier to make some glass shelves, in toughened black glass - size matches the Fraim glass shelves.
Each shelf sits on 3 VibraPods, providing the necessary isolation. Note: a VibraPod under the front-right corner is firmer (transformer sits here). VibraPods are relatively inexpensive (around EUR 45 for a pack of 4).

The differences are not subtle at all - it is probably the best and the most obvious upgrade I have ever heard.

I will add a photo in a second (if I can find it).

Adam

Wow, more than any of the electronic items?

Given that and a claim made on the current 'ethernet switch' thread, and some claims made about cables, maybe all we all need is the most basic of electronics, and focus only on the connections and supports!

Innocent Bystander posted:

Wow, more than any of the electronic items?      Given that and a claim made on the current 'ethernet switch' thread, and some claims made about cables, maybe all we all need is the most basic of electronics, and focus only on the connections and supports!

Hi IB,  I detect a little   in your post  ........  however for the benefit of all,  please read back to my last few posts & my conclusion on this thread  .............  sadly (for me anyway)  ..........  "I'm now beginning to think that with a reasonably good rack to start with that solid state items like NDX are not so responsive to different supports such as I've found with CDP's"     I'm not saying this is true for all,  but it is (was) for me

Innocent Bystander posted:
Adam Zielinski posted:
Mike-B posted:

 

NDX also means ND anything or any streamer type unit,  its going to happen anyway (sometime) so I would like to make it to a design that works & avoid stuff that does/might degrade SQ.   My questions to the forum are for those that have experience of adding a support shelf (bought or DIY)   (a) Does a support under a streamer actually make a sonic difference (honesty please)  (b) whats the best shelf material;  glass, slate, plastic, wood  (c) ditto support types, spikes, inverted dome nuts, washer/balls, sorbothane, hard rubber,  fixed firmly to the shelf or not.  

............  

Yes - it does. I've asked my local supplier to make some glass shelves, in toughened black glass - size matches the Fraim glass shelves.
Each shelf sits on 3 VibraPods, providing the necessary isolation. Note: a VibraPod under the front-right corner is firmer (transformer sits here). VibraPods are relatively inexpensive (around EUR 45 for a pack of 4).

The differences are not subtle at all - it is probably the best and the most obvious upgrade I have ever heard.

I will add a photo in a second (if I can find it).

Adam

Wow, more than any of the electronic items?

Given that and a claim made on the current 'ethernet switch' thread, and some claims made about cables, maybe all we all need is the most basic of electronics, and focus only on the connections and supports!

Is that a contribution to the thred or are you simply trying to be offensive?

The first part is a real question, though my assumption is that you probably mean in relation only to equipment supports, but you might mean more than that.

The second part, as Mike-B observed before your response, was clealy joking, or I thought it was clear. I cannot see any way in which it can be perceived as offensive, but I am sorry if it comes across in that way offensive to anyone, perhaps simply having a differenct sense of humour. 

When I put my Naim boxes on glass shelves with VibraPods (as opposed to sitting them on a wooden shelf) there was a change which I liked very much. It was the best upgrade I have heard in years.
However my LP12 sounded less happy sitting on one, so the glass shelf was removed.

This is the setup in my profile photo (library shot with Ovators).

Adam Zielinski posted:

When I put my Naim boxes on glass shelves with VibraPods (as opposed to sitting them on a wooden shelf) there was a change which I liked very much. It was the best upgrade I have heard in years.

If I might add some support for Adam on this,  the profile picture shows the Naim boxes on a large wall unit - shelves & draws - its not a designed for purpose audio rack such as Fraim et al, & I suspect the wall unit shelves that the Naim units are mounted on will resonate with the in-room sounds & other household noises.  I would fully expect some notable SQ improvements with the glass supports & suspect the Vibrapods play a significant part in this.      In comparison I would not expect Vibrapods have much if any effect with a (e.g.) Fraim. Likewise I have now discovered that to be the case with my rack, its nice to know that the design effort I put in to make it as inert as possible seems to work, disappointing that this experiment has not made further gains.   

Mike-B posted:
Adam Zielinski posted:

When I put my Naim boxes on glass shelves with VibraPods (as opposed to sitting them on a wooden shelf) there was a change which I liked very much. It was the best upgrade I have heard in years.

If I might add some support for Adam on this,  the profile picture shows the Naim boxes on a large wall unit - shelves & draws - its not a designed for purpose audio rack such as Fraim et al, & I suspect the wall unit shelves that the Naim units are mounted on will resonate with the in-room sounds & other household noises.  I would fully expect some notable SQ improvements with the glass supports & suspect the Vibrapods play a significant part in this.      In comparison I would not expect Vibrapods have much if any effect with a (e.g.) Fraim. Likewise I have now discovered that to be the case with my rack, its nice to know that the design effort I put in to make it as inert as possible seems to work, disappointing that this experiment has not made further gains.   

Thanks Mike.

I tried an additional glass & vibrapod (out of curiosity) on my proper rack (the second picture in my profile). No real effect / improvement. Like in your case, the design and effort that went into building a good hi-fi rack, means it is already good enough, so to speak.

In case of my library, this was a trade off between the looks approved by the domestic CFO and functionality / sound quality I needed.

The ultimate test came when I actually moved my NDS / 252 / 250 system from the living room to my library. It was put on my self designed supports (toughened glass and vibrapods). It actually sounds even better now - most likely to do with the Ovators S-400. I obviosly compared the sound between the two rooms with the same electronics / speaker combo and prefer the set in my library. It's a smaller room and Ovators are much happier there.

So to conclude - there are no right or wrong setups. It really does depend on individual rooms and objectives.

 

 

Adam Zielinski posted:
Innocent Bystander posted:

Wow, more than any of the electronic items?

Given that and a claim made on the current 'ethernet switch' thread, and some claims made about cables, maybe all we all need is the most basic of electronics, and focus only on the connections and supports!

Is that a contribution to the thred or are you simply trying to be offensive?

Adam, I believe IB's reply to be facetious, but (I hope) not actually intended to be offensive.

It's a cultural thing - and your English is so good that I for one find it difficult to remember you're not a native English speaker (same applies to your Latin, well sort of! ).

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