Temporary solution before ND555 released

Hi everyone. I'm about to upgrade to a 552DR+streamer from 272/555PS DR. My 272 is as good as sold. My plan was to buy a NDS or successor and since the ND555 is announced I will need a temporary solution before the ND555 is available. (In case it is so brilliant and I don't buy a preloved NDS)

I thought about buying an ATOM and borrowing an nDAC from my dealer. Therefore I have the new streaming platform and a good DAC with my 555PS DR. I could use the ATOM for the kitchen or resell it afterwards... 

Any other ideas for a good workaround without losing too much (in best case no) money?

Many thanks!

without music, life would be a mistake

Original Post

Assuming you're going to get the 552 and just need a streamer, any of the current range would be fine as a stopgap. If you're keeping the 555, a used NDS would be nice, and if the ND555 is late, or not as good as you thought it would be, just keep it.

ChrisSU posted:

Assuming you're going to get the 552 and just need a streamer, any of the current range would be fine as a stopgap. If you're keeping the 555, a used NDS would be nice, and if the ND555 is late, or not as good as you thought it would be, just keep it.

The NDS is great of course but not easy to get used. I'm just worried that no one is really interested in buying the NDS for the amount I would have to pay now as soon as the ND555 is out. The ND555 will be very expensive so therefore I'm trying to spend as little as possible... 

DL_Audio posted:
Innocent Bystander posted:

Simply wait?

As I wrote I will sell my 272. 

I understood that. What I meant was why not wait before doing the other upgrade, so saving having to think of a temporary solution and possibly losing out by buying and reselling if you then decide to go for ND555.

DL_Audio posted:
ChrisSU posted:

Assuming you're going to get the 552 and just need a streamer, any of the current range would be fine as a stopgap. If you're keeping the 555, a used NDS would be nice, and if the ND555 is late, or not as good as you thought it would be, just keep it.

The NDS is great of course but not easy to get used. I'm just worried that no one is really interested in buying the NDS for the amount I would have to pay now as soon as the ND555 is out. The ND555 will be very expensive so therefore I'm trying to spend as little as possible... 

The ND555 is apparently going to be a lot more expensive than the NDS, so I’m not sure that everyone will be making the upgrade. Unlike the NDX2, which looks like more of an incremental price increase on its predecessor. 

ChrisSU posted:
DL_Audio posted:
ChrisSU posted:

Assuming you're going to get the 552 and just need a streamer, any of the current range would be fine as a stopgap. If you're keeping the 555, a used NDS would be nice, and if the ND555 is late, or not as good as you thought it would be, just keep it.

The NDS is great of course but not easy to get used. I'm just worried that no one is really interested in buying the NDS for the amount I would have to pay now as soon as the ND555 is out. The ND555 will be very expensive so therefore I'm trying to spend as little as possible... 

The ND555 is apparently going to be a lot more expensive than the NDS, so I’m not sure that everyone will be making the upgrade. Unlike the NDX2, which looks like more of an incremental price increase on its predecessor. 

Can you see NDS users moving across to the NDX2 then do you think? I suppose this depends on how many years you are happy on the old platform before it feels required? 

Popeye posted:
ChrisSU posted:
DL_Audio posted:
ChrisSU posted:

Assuming you're going to get the 552 and just need a streamer, any of the current range would be fine as a stopgap. If you're keeping the 555, a used NDS would be nice, and if the ND555 is late, or not as good as you thought it would be, just keep it.

The NDS is great of course but not easy to get used. I'm just worried that no one is really interested in buying the NDS for the amount I would have to pay now as soon as the ND555 is out. The ND555 will be very expensive so therefore I'm trying to spend as little as possible... 

The ND555 is apparently going to be a lot more expensive than the NDS, so I’m not sure that everyone will be making the upgrade. Unlike the NDX2, which looks like more of an incremental price increase on its predecessor. 

Can you see NDS users moving across to the NDX2 then do you think? I suppose this depends on how many years you are happy on the old platform before it feels required? 

I strongly suspect that the NDX2 will not be enough of an improvement on the NDX to tempt NDS owners to downgrade. Of course, I'm assuming that the prices that have been mentioned on the forum are correct - NDX just over£4k, ND555 around £13k. Also, we know that Naim have not mentioned an NDS2 in the new lineup so far, but do we know for sure that they won't release it later?

If you were to go for an NDS and purchased a new 555PDSR to power it, you would be able to retain the power supply to power the ND555 if and when you trade in the NDS towards the ND555. It would also stage the investment into more bite size chunks. 

DL_Audio posted:

Hi everyone. I'm about to upgrade to a 552DR+streamer from 272/555PS DR. My 272 is as good as sold. My plan was to buy a NDS or successor and since the ND555 is announced I will need a temporary solution before the ND555 is available. (In case it is so brilliant and I don't buy a preloved NDS)

I thought about buying an ATOM and borrowing an nDAC from my dealer. Therefore I have the new streaming platform and a good DAC with my 555PS DR. I could use the ATOM for the kitchen or resell it afterwards... 

Any other ideas for a good workaround without losing too much (in best case no) money?

Many thanks!

if i were you, i would buy a core , borrow the ndac and listen to core/ndac/555ps in spdif mode. After, when you will finally buy the nd555, you will have a terrific source: nd555/555ps/ uniticore, in upnp mode of course.

French Rooster posted:

if i were you, i would buy a core , borrow the ndac and listen to core/ndac/555ps in spdif mode. After, when you will finally buy the nd555, you will have a terrific source: nd555/555ps/ uniticore, in upnp mode of course.

That depends on whether the rendering stage of rhe ND555 with uPNP via network is better than that of the Core as output via SPDIF. Quite apart from the presently unknown comparison purely of the two rendering stages, networks introduce additional variables, which can include greater susceptibility to other sources of degradation.

I managed to get a brand new NDS this year - even after I saw the rumours regarding the ND555 (had already put a deposit down). I was told that if it's anything like the Uniti range "they would be very surprised" if it gets released this year... especially with the rumours around "timing" issues.  A used NDS is definitely an option and given the dealers must offer reasonable trade-in's - you can't really quantify using it for a year - a year of pleasure.

My own thoughts are that I'll probably wait 6 months even after release of the ND555 so any teething issues are ironed out SW wise.  We're also assuming it will be leaps better - I do hope it can be. It would be an expensive upgrade for a new colour screen and some additional connectivity, if it didn't sound any better.

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts!

@French Rooster I'm going to buy a core in any case but I really enjoy discovering music via tidal and I don't want to miss that option.

@callen this is true and I would buy a preloved/exdemo etc. NDS immediately, if it is half or almost half the price but I couldn't find any (in Germany).

30% off the new price is still too much to me (for possibly a temporary solution) don't you think?

DL_Audio posted:

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts!

@French Rooster I'm going to buy a core in any case but I really enjoy discovering music via tidal and I don't want to miss that option.

@callen this is true and I would buy a preloved/exdemo etc. NDS immediately, if it is half or almost half the price but I couldn't find any (in Germany).

30% off the new price is still too much to me (for possibly a temporary solution) don't you think?

Realistically, in the UK a used nds sells for around £4300 if its an older one, and more if its more recent. I really can’t see this dropping drastically (if at all) even when the new models are released, therefore you probably wouldn’t lose too much if you sold it again later on anyway. With the kit you have im sure you will love it.

Innocent Bystander posted:
French Rooster posted:

if i were you, i would buy a core , borrow the ndac and listen to core/ndac/555ps in spdif mode. After, when you will finally buy the nd555, you will have a terrific source: nd555/555ps/ uniticore, in upnp mode of course.

That depends on whether the rendering stage of rhe ND555 with uPNP via network is better than that of the Core as output via SPDIF. Quite apart from the presently unknown comparison purely of the two rendering stages, networks introduce additional variables, which can include greater susceptibility to other sources of degradation.

naim demonstrates its streamers with the uniticore in upnp mode at shows, because they consider it to be the best. In spdif, you are using only the dac section of the nds, ndx or nd555....   if you want to use spdif with the core, better is to connect a separate dac, like ndac or chord dave.  

Gazza posted:

You can get Tidal via a Melco server but they are at least twice the price of the Core. I have a Core, if new streamers do not amaze, I may go for a Melco and a top DAC.

the entry level melco is around the same price as the core ( with ssd drive as option).  in France.

Microrendu + new chord qutest / new Brooklyn DAC ?

i am at the same situation, 272 sold to a good price already....

i like to see nd555 and ndx2 options compared with my current 555psdr, I am more and more with the idea of not going top end with digital, I have a feeling that a new digital solution will be the best thing every year for a while until dust gets gets settled, meanwhile I can upgrade my turntable to my end game retirement setup...like Kronos Sparta

Meanwhile I will enjoy Cd2x with 555ps and my woodpacker2

i got an American integrated with a dac from my dealer to use it while 552 arrives, he could not barrow me any naim at the moment, 272/555/300  was sooooo much better... I can not even compare.. even my wife said naaah it is not same at all after 30 seconds...

272/555/300 with full SL loom, power lines and frame is a very good combo, I hope 552 will bring something better..

 

French Rooster posted:
Innocent Bystander posted:

That depends on whether the rendering stage of rhe ND555 with uPNP via network is better than that of the Core as output via SPDIF. Quite apart from the presently unknown comparison purely of the two rendering stages, networks introduce additional variables, which can include greater susceptibility to other sources of degradation.

naim demonstrates its streamers with the uniticore in upnp mode at shows, because they consider it to be the best. In spdif, you are using only the dac section of the nds, ndx or nd555....   if you want to use spdif with the core, better is to connect a separate dac, like ndac or chord dave.  

Is the use of uPNP at shows for quality reasons declared as such by Naim?  Or might it be for ease of control, or more likely, perhaps,  because when demonstrating an all-in-one streamer one would do so with a network simply because it is being marketed as capable of running on a nework, and the Core is but one example of a serve. Demonstrating with the Core-specific SPDIF feed would be something different, focussing on the Core’s capabilities rather than just the streamer.

I seem to recall Phil Harris stating something to the effect that he could hear no difference between Core as renderer and NDX.

@Emre interesting you're in almost the same situation!

Emre posted:

 

272/555/300 with full SL loom, power lines and frame is a very good combo, I hope 552 will bring something better..

 

 

The 552 arrived the day before yesterday. Still breaking in of course but even though it's "just" the 272/555DR PS as source it's simply phenomenal.

Sure it's worth waiting for the NDX2 as well to compare but I have the feeling that the ND555 will be so much better. Still if I get the chance to buy a NDS for a very good price in mint condition I'd do it and I'm not pressurised to buy an ND555 right from the beginning.

Innocent Bystander posted:
French Rooster posted:
Innocent Bystander posted:

That depends on whether the rendering stage of rhe ND555 with uPNP via network is better than that of the Core as output via SPDIF. Quite apart from the presently unknown comparison purely of the two rendering stages, networks introduce additional variables, which can include greater susceptibility to other sources of degradation.

naim demonstrates its streamers with the uniticore in upnp mode at shows, because they consider it to be the best. In spdif, you are using only the dac section of the nds, ndx or nd555....   if you want to use spdif with the core, better is to connect a separate dac, like ndac or chord dave.  

Is the use of uPNP at shows for quality reasons declared as such by Naim?  Or might it be for ease of control, or more likely, perhaps,  because when demonstrating an all-in-one streamer one would do so with a network simply because it is being marketed as capable of running on a nework, and the Core is but one example of a serve. Demonstrating with the Core-specific SPDIF feed would be something different, focussing on the Core’s capabilities rather than just the streamer.

I seem to recall Phil Harris stating something to the effect that he could hear no difference between Core as renderer and NDX.

in spdif mode you don’t use the streaming part of the ndx or nds, so it’s not very logical. But you can do it and show the capabilities of the core in that way, i agree with you innocent bystander.  Just using only a specified dac is more logical.

As for sound quality, perhaps a core/ dave can compete with nds/ core in upnp, it must be in the same league, just different.

For upnp vs spdif, i could compare at home with my serve/ linear ps( very similar to the core):  with a good network isolation and quality lan, vs spdif with dc1,  the upnp was much better for me, at the first seconds of listening.

I know you have the dave, why not try to borrow a core and connect in spdif, and compare to your mac mini?

what means » innocent bystander « , if i may ask?

French Rooster posted:

 

I know you have the dave, why not try to borrow a core and connect in spdif, and compare to your mac mini?

what means » innocent bystander « , if i may ask?

Core is on my list of things to try when one day my Mac Mini gives up the ghost, or when my frustrations with Audirvana’s library handling get the better of me and make me give real consideration to replacement, though it would be campared with alternatives like Melco, Innuos Zenith, and likely another lower cost option such as so ething based on microRendu or similar.

As for the term “innocent bystander”, it means someone who is in the vicinity of something happening, and who either just observes it, or who inadvertently gets caught up in something that was nothing to do with them. Maybe most often used to describe people caught up in something unfortunate, but the meaning doesn’t limit it to that. I adopted it as a slogan on clothing back in the 1980s, prompted by a track name on Edgar Broughton Band’s Superchip album, liking its interesting connotations, and have worn it on a T-shirt or sweatshirt to most rock  gigs I’ve been to since.

callen posted:

I was told that if it's anything like the Uniti range "they would be very surprised" if it gets released this year... especially with the rumours around "timing" issues.

While a dealer obviously has more information... the ND555 / NDX 2 / ND5XS 2 are in different position to the Uniti release in that the streaming board (the major new part) is already developed and pretty much finalised being that it’s in use in the UnitiAtom / Star / Nova.

From the information Naim fed to customers, the delays were a lot down to certification from third parties, this should be (mostly) avoided for the new streamers.

Richieroo posted:

Get a little Mojo connect to mini computer or pad and then to 552 ....... very good sound for buttons...+ you can sell mojo when your super ND555 lands ........... yipee

If you feel it likely you’ll go for ND555 and NDS just won’t do then Richie’s advice seems the most cost effective short term fix I could think of too. Not sure how good it will be, but wager it won’t be awful and it’s not for long...

kevin J Carden posted:
Richieroo posted:

Get a little Mojo connect to mini computer or pad and then to 552 ....... very good sound for buttons...+ you can sell mojo when your super ND555 lands ........... yipee

If you feel it likely you’ll go for ND555 and NDS just won’t do then Richie’s advice seems the most cost effective short term fix I could think of too. Not sure how good it will be, but wager it won’t be awful and it’s not for long...

The NDS will do. Just got an option do buy one for a reasonable price. As I will have the SL IC and Burndys I can wait very relaxed and see what a ND555 can do in direct comparison - yippee!   

Thanks everyone!

Richieroo posted:

Keep us posted!!!

Thanks for your interest, Richieroo! Both are here and about to break in step by step. Soundstage and punch are amazing, still quite harsh tough but I'm sure that will dissolve soon. I noticed that the sound level between the left and right channels are not quite balanced if the control is below the 8 o'clock mark. The music is insomuch present that it's simply too loud to listen above the 8 o'clock mark late at night. From what I've read it's a known problem but I will talk to my dealer if there's a chance that this can be solved. 

I'm so glad I bought my NDS 5 1/2 years ago.  WOW time flies!  I've been enjoying it for alllllll this time.

Lesson:  Waiting for the 'next greater thing' means time is fleeting.  No matter what the ND555 sounds like, the NDS sounds fabulous and one can obtain one TODAY.

Cheers!  

DL_Audio posted:

Harshness is gone. NDS/555DR/552DR sounds incredible! I think ND555 can wait for a while - no rush to update the source - speakers might be next

DL, the imbalance you hear is a quirk of the pots on the pre amp. My previous 282 was rather imbalanced, particularly at low volumes, giving more volume out of the left channel than the right. My current 252 has the same issue but not quite so pronounced. Tweaking the balance control sorts it though.

Glad you are enjoying your not so temporary NDS. It is rather good and I can't think what the ND555 will sound like, if by all accounts it will clearly beat the NDS.

Exciting times!

Innocent Bystander posted:
French Rooster posted:

 

I know you have the dave, why not try to borrow a core and connect in spdif, and compare to your mac mini?

...

Core is on my list of things to try when one day my Mac Mini gives up the ghost, or when my frustrations with Audirvana’s library handling get the better of me and make me give real consideration to replacement, though it would be campared with alternatives like Melco, Innuos Zenith, and likely another lower cost option such as so ething based on microRendu or similar.

...

I am not aware of any serious review of the Core's S/PDIF output (and, more generally, of the Core as a whole), thus it is difficult to say how it performs. The Innuos Zenith SE's USB output has received very positive reviews in the "A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming" monster thread on CA, see page 236. The new Antipodes devices of the "X" series were also mentioned as possible contenders of solutions based on SoTM Trifecta in that thread while the Melcos do not seem to come out very well in the reviews on CA. I am currently playing around with an Allo DigiOne and there have been rumors of Allo being working on a successor. From the point of view of usability this would be, for me, the best alternative because, no matter how good the UI of Innuos, Melco, Antipodes, etc. are, they are very limited. At least it seems that one can install MinimServer on the Innuos and on the Melcos and on the SoTM sMS-200ultra. This makes such devices well suitable for serving classical music. I do not know whether MinimServer runs on the Antipodes but certainly it cannot be installed on the Core.

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