The 4.6 verdict

Congratulations on getting the music back, Ken.

It is a fairly complicated process and one which fills me with trepidation each time I've done it. Luckily, it worked fine when I did it, but the laptop I used is even older than yours. I used a Dell Inspiron 1525 with an Intel Core 2 Duo processor, running Windows Vista! I used a 1m USB cable and a 5m Ethernet cable which has to reach the network switch in the next room.

I'm just about to acquire my mother-in-law's laptop, which is newer, but I wonder if I'll enjoy the same success next time I need to do a firmware update.

Clive B posted:

Congratulations on getting the music back, Ken.

It is a fairly complicated process and one which fills me with trepidation each time I've done it. Luckily, it worked fine when I did it, but the laptop I used is even older than yours. I used a Dell Inspiron 1525 with an Intel Core 2 Duo processor, running Windows Vista! I used a 1m USB cable and a 5m Ethernet cable which has to reach the network switch in the next room.

I'm just about to acquire my mother-in-law's laptop, which is newer, but I wonder if I'll enjoy the same success next time I need to do a firmware update.

yeah, i hope one of these days I will get to understand a bit of what's going on here. lucky you -- your mother-in-law is letting you 'acquire' her laptop!

Good luck and

enjoy

/ken

I’m an NDS user and was happy but thought I’d try the update - installed it. And it it sounded more detailed tiresome and rather harsh - when I double checked the version on the NDS display in the settings menu it still showed as 4.4? However there was a noticeable sound difference ?

Is the update  supposed to do a factory update ? If not how is it done ?

Also -how do you revert back to previous  version 

Wishing I had not bothered - as the USB and port instructions are very confusing 

I will try a shorter usb lead and repeat process shortly and hopefully at least get the NDS to say it is 4.6 rather than what appears  be a nightmare partly installed version 

Will report back soon -advice on factory reset and reverting to 4.4 appreciated 

CDI aka NDS

 

 

 

 

 

 

CDI,

No, the Updater doesn't do the factory reset. You'll need to do that once the update is complete from the remote control. It tells you how to do this on the last page of the instructions (you did follow it on the instructions, didn't you!). You'll then need to reset any iRadio presets you may have stored.

Interesting to note CDI reports his first install did not show 4.6 in the NDS display.   Hopefully CDI comes back with positive news.   This is something I’ve always checked but have never had an instance when it did not have a successful update.    Whatever I will report it to Naim beta team as something to look at

Mike-B posted:

Hi Ken,  I can't believe the USB cable made any difference, it either connects or it doesn't,  & I use a 5m Lindy as well & thats been 100% OK over a few years of beta testing.  You post does open up some ponderings & for sure I can't disagree with your theories,  I too am left wondering if your first install failed to complete or corrupt something.  As a matter of course I've always checked the DSP & other info in the NDX display after a new install,  it would have been interesting to look at that in your previous install.  

....

as I said -- what I did was not based on any deep knowledge or understanding -- it may in fact be purely coincidental that things changed for the better.  The fact that I got an error in my 3rd attempt may suggest there was something wrong with the previous NDS updates.

what you say in the highlighted sounds important though. seems to suggest that even though the update process reports successful completion, this may not be enough -- we need to check what version the NDS or whatever device thinks it has.

You say 'ive always checked the DSP' -- how do you do that and what do you compare that against. and what 'other info' do you also check. This could help a lot of people.

enjoy

ken

Dear all

Full of expectation I upgraded my NDS from 4.4 to 4.6 yesterday.

I'm a previous owner of a Linn sytem including Komri Aktiv with 8xKlimax Solo, Klimax Kontrol and Klimax DS.
In my opinion Linn started to go in wrong direction when it comes to pace and rhythm so I sold everything  and started with Naim old school instead.
It was a good move; I really liked it :-)
Today my primary system consist of, for instance, NDS/555PSDR, NAC52, 6xNAP135CB and DBL active. I also have some Mana Acoustics to get the real old school feeling.

Now I'm concerned, I think 4.6 is moving back towards the Linn path on my system, and this is something that I do not want.
In my opinon this is not in the direction of PRaT.

I really hope this is not the beginning of me moving somewhere else...

Best regards from a worried Naim owner

ken c posted:

You say I've always checked the DSP' -- how do you do that and what do you compare that against. and what 'other info' do you also check. This could help a lot of people.

Hey Ken, howzit going?      I may have mislead you a bit on this,   I always check a number of things to verify the new firmware & out of interest to see & note what is new.   I note the new firmware version number for e.g. & this & other new install rev numbers can be seen in the app 'Settings>About'        However re DSP;   new firmware does not mean a new DSP version number,  it might sometimes, but not always.    To see the DSP version in the ND display screen .........  with the remote,  touch the 'tool' button, scroll down to Factory Settings > System Status & scroll to DSP Version. 

MNn posted:


Now I'm concerned, I think 4.6 is moving back towards the Linn path on my system, and this is something that I do not want.
In my opinon this is not in the direction of PRaT.

I really hope this is not the beginning of me moving somewhere else...

Best regards from a worried Naim owner

Steven Wilson (Porcupine Tree) has it nailed - 'Arriving Somewhere ........... But Not Here'.

Good luck.

John.

Mike-B posted:
ken c posted:

You say I've always checked the DSP' -- how do you do that and what do you compare that against. and what 'other info' do you also check. This could help a lot of people.

Hey Ken, howzit going?      I may have mislead you a bit on this,   I always check a number of things to verify the new firmware & out of interest to see & note what is new.   I note the new firmware version number for e.g. & this & other new install rev numbers can be seen in the app 'Settings>About'        However re DSP;   new firmware does not mean a new DSP version number,  it might sometimes, but not always.    To see the DSP version in the ND display screen .........  with the remote,  touch the 'tool' button, scroll down to Factory Settings > System Status & scroll to DSP Version. 

i think its I who misunderstood.  My question was triggered by CDI's experience -- where he reports he ran the update to completion but NDS settings still showed 4.4!!!? I assumed that if the update process showed the little  'success' window with a tick at the end -- then all should be ok, but seems not?? if you then have to check NDS to ensure all is OK, seems to me hat may not be enough -??

enjoy

ken

For clarity - I think I “clicked off” something at the end of the update process and that caused the “hybrid” version that still registered as 4.4 on the NDS and sounded horrible.

It is all sorted now and sounding pretty good even with my slightly bright kudos C20’s that are awaiting an upgrade to catch up with the electronics.

I’m still tying to pin down my other half to give her verdict on the new update v old - she has far better hearing than me and will be a valuable evaluator.

Will post the result ASAP - and when someone replies to my original post - Hos do you revert back to 4.4 !

 

CDI aka NDS

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have been a 4.6 supporter from the beginning without denying a few downsides. FWIW I have now slightly repositionned the D28. 2cm in the room and 1/2cm more toe-in. All to regain image focus, lower resonance and a little of PRaT. Probably to find a new knot in the resonance scheme. I believe some have reported similar adjustments. 🤓

Chag -

jmtennapel posted:

Software (firmware) has the habit to install completely or not at all. I find it very unlikely that the length of the USB cable could influence the sound.

Corrupt firmware updates  would result in a not functioning piece of equipment. 

you know more than I do. I only reported what happened. install 2wice with my desktop and 5m USB => unmistakably horrible sound.  then reverted to 4.4.

3rd time, re-installed 4.6 using a measly dell laptop and a much shorter USB => horrible sound definitely gone - but a very 'different' SQ from what I was used to with 4.4.

I cant pretend to understand what's going one here -- maybe someone who knows more can shed some light?

enjoy

ken

ken c posted:
French Rooster posted:

perhaps the best update download must be done by chord music usb to mini usb cable ?

more seriously, my usb cable has 50 cm length.  Some didn’t liked the update, but horrible, i didn’t heard.  Can you borrow another laptop with short usb cable, to see if it changes something ?

French Rooster posted:
ken c posted:
French Rooster posted:

perhaps the best update download must be done by chord music usb to mini usb cable ?

more seriously, my usb cable has 50 cm length.  Some didn’t liked the update, but horrible, i didn’t heard.  Can you borrow another laptop with short usb cable, to see if it changes something ?

no point. as I said from my earlier posting, I am over the 'horrible' sound now. just learning to live with the 'new' sound now... which is definitely 'different'

and as far as I have understood from people here who know a lot more about this domain than I do, its unlikely the USB cable had anything to do with the horrible sound, so I am still in the dark as to what actually changed things in the end, or combination of things. There are probably many variables involved with complex interactions...

enjoy...

ken

ken c posted:
jmtennapel posted:

Software (firmware) has the habit to install completely or not at all. I find it very unlikely that the length of the USB cable could influence the sound.

Corrupt firmware updates  would result in a not functioning piece of equipment. 

you know more than I do. I only reported what happened. install 2wice with my desktop and 5m USB => unmistakably horrible sound.  then reverted to 4.4.

3rd time, re-installed 4.6 using a measly dell laptop and a much shorter USB => horrible sound definitely gone - but a very 'different' SQ from what I was used to with 4.4.

I cant pretend to understand what's going one here -- maybe someone who knows more can shed some light?

enjoy

ken

Something that hasn’t tot anything to do with an USB cable. Sorry, but from an IT point of view it maken no sense at all. Computers don’t have feelings or mood swings. It is binary: it workshop or it don’t and that will be consistent. You must have done something different in the order or nummer of steps.

I don’t doubt what you are reporting, I don’t think it is accurate without you being aware of it. And thus urban myths about the length of the USB cable influencing the firmware update and by doing so influence the sound of a streamer come into being.

jmtennapel posted:
ken c posted:
 

..... You must have done something different .....

yes, exactly correct. the something different that I did was to use a shorter cable and a different PC for the install.

I repeat, for the umpteenth time - I am not claiming to understand what caused the difference in the result here. I simply don't know. 

enjoy

ken

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