Tidal on my NAIM app doesn't work properly...

So I was fiddling and faffing about, jumping back and forth between the Tidal and Tidal-on-NAIM apps and I suddenly got a page that asked me to confirm my new "Premium" 320 OV account "High" setting. It is the "Tidal" functionality in the NAIM app "settings"...

So - user error after all. Red-faced embarrassed emoticon thingy.

Now I can get Tidal to stream via the ND5XS! Huzzah!!

The sound quality is definitely better than the Spotify equivalent - more open and detailed and "present", as it were.

Not only that, but there's no dropout. This suggests that the problem sits with trying to stream 1044kbps files...

Get that sorted with the firmware update and I may go back to giving Beyonce and her blokey twice as many Euros again, but I'm sitting here quite happily listening to Brand X "Product - Rhesus Perplexus" and enjoying all the track's delicate nuances without feeling deprived.

Smiley-faced relieved emoticon thingy...

Carry on, chaps.

 

Jack From Adelaide posted:

As I understand it Naim recommends a CAT6 connection. I went to the trouble of getting an electrician in to put in a proper CAT6 cable and nice connections at both ends. Another tip is that every cable that you use, from the cables at the Modem end and the cables in your music room have to all be CAT6 or "bad things" will happen. I wish an actual Naim person would weigh in and tell us what is actually going on instead of having to guess at it ourselves.

Hi,

Actually we don't specifically recommend CAT6 - we only require CAT5e and I don't think we have ever specifically recommanded any particular cabling type.

As far as TIDAL dropouts are concerned then as I have said up here on the forums before we have a firmware in Beta that should help address some issues with excessive latency causing problems (4.4.72) and that is available to try if you drop me an email (Windows updater only).

Unfortunately if it's anything else that is an issue then we cannot "fix" the internet as a whole and so if that firmware doesn't address the issue then there isn't a whole lot more that we can do. Does the unit exhibit the same issues at the dealers?

Phil

The reason I know it’s a naim problem and not Tidal is due to the fact that I use Tidal,  the same playlists,  for my car, boat, and another audio system.  I NEVER have a single dropout.  The drops only happen with this wonderful $100k naim system. So Phil, it’s not an internet problem it’s a naim problem. 

Zackwater posted:

The reason I know it’s a naim problem and not Tidal is due to the fact that I use Tidal,  the same playlists,  for my car, boat, and another audio system.  I NEVER have a single dropout.  The drops only happen with this wonderful $100k naim system. So Phil, it’s not an internet problem it’s a naim problem. 

My Tidal on Naim is like weather, some days sun shines some days it rains, some days it is partly cloudy... you never know....  more i stream more i buy CDs and records  

you never know, i have a all good cables, fast internet etc, i am streaming 4K movies with apple TV and Netflix without a blink...

Zackwater posted:

The reason I know it’s a naim problem and not Tidal is due to the fact that I use Tidal,  the same playlists,  for my car, boat, and another audio system.  I NEVER have a single dropout.  The drops only happen with this wonderful $100k naim system. So Phil, it’s not an internet problem it’s a naim problem. 

Hi Zackwater,

If you feel that your streamer itself has an issue then by all means get your dealer involved and get them to test the unit out on their store network. Alternatively have you contacted us to try the Beta code out on your streamer? If not, why not? If you are having issues then that would seem sensible, no?

Like you I can run 4k Netflix at home (and Prime Video and NowTV athough NowTV does seem to be more problematic that Prime Video or Netflix) generally without problems but at the moment I can't run TIDAL, Spotify or Internet Radio on my NDX (not even on Beta firmware) without dropouts so in isolation I guess you could immediately say that it's the fault of the NDX...

... however I also can't run Spotify or Internet Radio without dropouts on either my Yamaha or Marantz AV receivers either and the time it takes to load the Internet Radio lists whilst browsing on those units can be measured in 10's of minutes (at least the Naim App doesn't seem to hit that same issue although browsing using the IR remote on the NDX directly does) ...

... my Amazon Echo and Echo Dot (first gen) also have issues too with both Internet Radio and Spotify, sometimes taking upwards of five minutes before starting to actually play anything - thankfully I generally only use them for control of my Philips Hue kit and for cooking timers and an alarm clock ...

... even TIDAL under Roon on a Windows PC dedicated to doing nothing but run Roon Core glitches on TIDAL playback occasionally. (I don't use that PC for Spotify [using the Spotify app of course as Roon doesn't support Spotify] and I haven't tried using Roon for Internet Radio URLs yet as Internet Radio is a bit of a cludgy afterthought at the moment on Roon Core.)

All are hard wired Ethernet (apart from the Amazon Echos) on a solid gigabit network and a speedtest.net speed test for my internet connection tells me I'm getting between 40 and 52Mbits/sec as a rule.

Similarly to you I use TIDAL and Spotify in my car too and once I'm on the main road heading out of the village where I live then I don't have any issues streaming those or Internet Radio (I use the myTuner Pro app on my iPhone for internet radio).

I used to have this issue at home a couple of years ago and then when the local infrastructure went over to FTTC about 18 months ago then pretty much overnight the issues cleared and I was able to use TIDAL, Spotify and internet radio again, however over the last three or four months then those issues have steadily come back ... and once again if I wireshark the network traffic on my network I see the NDX / Yamaha / Marantz / Echo sending out requests for data and those requests simply not being responded to and this is not only whilst streaming but also whilst trying to load internet radio lists with the devices making repeated unaknowledged resend requests - however Netflix (both at 4k from my LG OLED and at 1080p on my Samsung LCD or on my Roku 3's) and Amazon Prime and NowTV are still generally as stable as ever. (I do very occasionally get buffering delays during playback on Netflix and Prime, more so on NowTV but it doesn't seem as resilient.)

I know this doesn't solve your problem (I wish I could solve mine but without moving I don't think that's likely) but hopefully you will be able to see that it's not just a "Naim" issue...

Best

Phil

Since (hopefully temporarily) making do with Tidal 320kbps through a WISP provided, ethernet-cabled ND5XS, I get zero dropouts using my Tidal account.

It's clear to me that, at least in my own particular situation, the problem has been buried somewhere inside the long, complicated process of trying to stream lossless music from my account that's sitting somewhere inside Tidal's enormous server facility to my loudspeakers.

I await NAIM's latest firmware upgrade attempt to fix this with eager anticipation.

Oh by the way this is my 2nd naim system, moved houses and gave my son the other system.  On both systems the tidal drops, sometimes it plays all day with no problems, at other times it won’t play 3 songs without dropping.  My son’s system is WiFi, mine is hard wired.  On both systems the internet radio NEVER DROPS.   All the Netflix’s, Apple TV, Sonos, etc, NEVER HAS A PROBLEM.  The only problem i ever have with my internet is with tidal through naim.  I have a USB port on a CD player that I play through a 40 year old Marantz receiver and Tidal NEVER drops a song.  My dealer lives 1000 miles away, so I’m sorta screwed.  

Zackwater posted:

Oh by the way this is my 2nd naim system, moved houses and gave my son the other system.  On both systems the tidal drops, sometimes it plays all day with no problems, at other times it won’t play 3 songs without dropping.  My son’s system is WiFi, mine is hard wired.  On both systems the internet radio NEVER DROPS.   All the Netflix’s, Apple TV, Sonos, etc, NEVER HAS A PROBLEM.  The only problem i ever have with my internet is with tidal through naim.  I have a USB port on a CD player that I play through a 40 year old Marantz receiver and Tidal NEVER drops a song.  My dealer lives 1000 miles away, so I’m sorta screwed.  

Hi Zack

Just to follow up on Phil's e-mail a couple of days ago - have you spoken to Naim about installing their Beta streaming software? I installed it a few days back, and Tidal has been solid since...

Worth a try? No need for a dealer - just download to a PC, hook up to the streamer, and follow the instructions. Drop Phil or tech support an e-mail if you want to give it a go.

murat posted:

Also received firmware from Phil/Naim, need to be sure that it is not going to compromise the sound quality.. Anyone else who tried the beta and solved the matter &satisfied with Tidal streaming?

Hi Murat

Happily I can report that the SQ with the beta streaming software is fine. In terms of whether this has resolved the issue - I've been largely trouble free since installing it (about a week), compared to very frequent dropouts previously. Where I have had an isolated dropout since installing the beta, the streamer seemed to be able to recover the stream,  whereas previously the stream would just stop. On checking the Wifi log using a utility (WiFi Explorer) at the time that the stream dropped out, I could see that the 2.4GHz band dropped out completely for maybe 20 seconds - I've hooked the Superuniti up by ethernet, so this may be coincidental, though I suspect not. I'm using an Apple Time Capsule with DSL modem. As ever, that doesn't tell me all that much, other than that this seems to point to a ?processor issue in the Time Capsule? 

But no worries at all on the SQ front, so far as I am concerned. I am slightly mystified as to why this has apparently been in beta for so long, according to Juanito? I suspect that the (?vast) majority of users having issues with the Naim/Tidal experience will either put up with the problem of Tidal dropouts or become disillusioned and stop streaming Tidal - which seems a shame if a proven fix is available. I appreciate that Naim support may well have their reasons...

 

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David Stewartmcn46
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