Tuner Nat 05 versus Nat 05 XS

Thanks for everyone's input, now I am tempted to try nait 03 or 02. 

03: US$360 vs. 02:US$880

Which one should I get? Is the 2x price tag justifiable for 02?

Simon, you tried/owned 02 also? Your comment is highly appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

John Bailey posted:
The Strat (Fender) posted:

With apologies chaps for the Sanyo misnomer. I was clearly confused!!

I remember reading a review of the NAT05 years ago and recall it mentioned use of a Sanyo based circuit. I think the review was in HiFi choice. 

I think that was it - thank you for restoring my sanity John. 

The Strat (Fender) posted:
John Bailey posted:
The Strat (Fender) posted:

With apologies chaps for the Sanyo misnomer. I was clearly confused!!

I remember reading a review of the NAT05 years ago and recall it mentioned use of a Sanyo based circuit. I think the review was in HiFi choice. 

I think that was it - thank you for restoring my sanity John. 

Or you could both be mad and suffering the same hallucination! 

PTCM posted:

Thanks for everyone's input, now I am tempted to try nait 03 or 02. 

03: US$360 vs. 02:US$880

Which one should I get? Is the 2x price tag justifiable for 02?

 

I presume that's just a typo - or have you inadvertently been looking at integrated amps for sale?

ChrisSU posted:
PTCM posted:

Thanks for everyone's input, now I am tempted to try nait 03 or 02. 

03: US$360 vs. 02:US$880

Which one should I get? Is the 2x price tag justifiable for 02?

 

I presume that's just a typo - or have you inadvertently been looking at integrated amps for sale?

you are correct.  I was asking about Nat 03 vs. 02 Tuner.

 

Has anyone tried all 02, 03, and 05 ?  how much is 02 better than 03 or just minor sonic characteristics ?

I want to get 01 but it's not available in this part of the world.

PTCM posted:
Christopher_M posted:

I've heard 02 (briefly) and 03 but not in the same system. The 02 definitely had more of that live-in-the-studio realism.

Chris

Thanks Chris,

relative to 01, is 02 way behind or just a little bit?

NAT01? Never had the pleasure. But those forumites who have them tend to say things like, 'it's their best source bar none'.

C.

PTCM posted:

Thanks for everyone's input, now I am tempted to try nait 03 or 02. 

03: US$360 vs. 02:US$880

Which one should I get? Is the 2x price tag justifiable for 02?

Simon, you tried/owned 02 also? Your comment is highly appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

When I had my 01 initially installed, the dealer also brought along a Magnum FT101 tuner (because it had a signal strength meter to help align the G17 antenna), as well as a NAT03-which he was taking along to a friends afterwards for a home demo. 

There was no contest...the 01 sounded like rich warm detailed live feed-at least as good as the CDS1 I had at the time, while the 03 was a pale shadow. Compressed, lacking in sparkle and quite flat. Announcers voices which ARE live feeds are a very good way to check the fidelity of a tuner. 

The Magnum was even worse. Slow in pace like an out of tune LP12. 

The 02 is much closer to the 01 than the 03 is to the 02. So yes....the 02 is easily worth the extra over the 03. 

Moderated Post:  Ron, please be mindful of forum rules - particularly with regard to discussion of unauthorised modifications to Naim kit.  Thanks. 

The Strat (Fender) posted:
rjstaines posted:

All I want to know is when are they going to add a DAB module into the NAT05XS and make it a truly versatile radio ? 

I'd buy one tomorrow.

 

Almost makes it a ND5XS?

Don't you just hate duplication though, Strat?     A radio is a radio is a radio...and it receives radio broadcasts... brilliantly.... and when you hand over your hard earned, you want to be paying for a radio and not a bunch of other stuff you already have covered (well at least I do).

Multi-function devices are fine, if that's what you want, but lots of folk want units that are dedicated, optimised and priced to do a particular thing...brilliantly.  So the ND5XS with FM/DAB module has its place, the NACN-272 has its place, but the NACxxx preamps and NAPxxx main amps do a specific and complete job... the NAT05 on the other hand just 'ain't a complete radio.

There will be those who propose that the qulity of DAB, being so far below FM, all but eliminates it from the classification of  'radio', and therefor suggest the NAT05 is a complete radio... but I disagree.   I listen to HD music and I listen to MP3 music on my system, my MP3 collection 'completes' my whole music collection for me.  Quantity over quality... in fact there's a place for all of it, and the same's true of radio  (in my opinion    ), so DAB belongs in the same chasis as FM... please Naim.

Roger

It's all beginning to point in the direction of all broadcast & streaming mediums being received on 272'like front ends with home audio.  I see radio tuners as we know them being consigned to the dust of history:     FM moves over for DAB+, & yes it will be DAB+ (in UK) one day (think £) ,  & the best quality source for public broadcast services on home audio will be internet radio. 

When I had my little Qute I used to use FM which was suprisingly good, and also internet radio which wasn't as good but had some good content but dab was unlistenable for me. Having dab available on my nat05xs would not be a bonus for me because I wouldn't use it. 

Finally found a used 01 tuner but price is around twice vs. 02.  Judging from the price,  seems to reflect 03 very behind 02/01 obviously.  

My question is US$2k too much for 01? That is more than a 05 XS.

Anyone one own both 01 and 05 XS can comment?  

dayjay posted:

When I had my little Qute I used to use FM which was suprisingly good, and also internet radio which wasn't as good but had some good content but dab was unlistenable for me. Having dab available on my nat05xs would not be a bonus for me because I wouldn't use it. 

Yes I enjoy FM.. With the best audio coming from my 03.. with it sounding smooth and natural, albeit with no remote, and it does drift ever so, ever so slightly.. probably needs a service.

So called 'HD' lossy internet radio can be OK from the BBC but is usually poor compared to equivalent FM broadcasts sounding sterile and synthetic in comparison and also runs into broadcast rights issues for local content (at least in Suffolk) such as sports commentaries and so is suspended for some local programming with a loop saying the content is only authorised for FM broadcast or similar ...Also  I just wish BBC Radio 6 was broadcast on FM.. It's such a waste.

DAB has improved if I am honest, but IMO has to be listened through a low to mid fi system only .. the average kitchen or car radio is ok... anything more resolving just sounds so unattractive especially for music.. even in the car DAB music is often borderline unless very low volume and background... and those DAB dropouts can make it so tedious .. but I have noticed that varies significantly on which region of the country I am in.. East Anglia (exc Norwich area) especially towards the North Sea and forests is genereally poor.

However one benefit of DAB over DAB+, is that the MP2 based codecs of DAB are more tolerant of transcoding, IE encoding already lossy material like MP3 or AAC. Therefore DAB+ is typically only going to sound better at medium to higher bandwidths genereally with lossless source data.... again this will only be apparent on more resolving audio equipment.

But yes I'd support a Naim NAT06 that had FM and DAB/DAB+/DMB decoder ... that perhaps could put station art/info/info streams  on the updated Naim app display. I'd be inclined to leave web radio to the streamers... VHF signals (as used by FM and DAB/DAB+) and Ethernet encoding frequencies and harmonics  are not happy bed fellows...

Simon

 

A NAT06 would be nice... but we should be grateful that Naim keep a tuner in the catalogue at all... most competitors have abandoned FM radio entirely. 

I use a NAT03 and I love it but would like to go to a NAT05XS - just a bit concerned that I would gain convenience and aesthetic matching in the rack but lose 'something' the NAT03 has. 

PTCM posted:

Finally found a used 01 tuner but price is around twice vs. 02.  Judging from the price,  seems to reflect 03 very behind 02/01 obviously.  

My question is US$2k too much for 01? That is more than a 05 XS.

Anyone one own both 01 and 05 XS can comment?  

$2k?? Well, when it comes to classic legacy Naim gear (I'm thinking Nait 1 and to a lesser extent the Aro) it is standard practice that an item that may be decades old sells for more than it did new. Bear in mind that the 01 last retailed for circa 3.5k$, so the 2k is maybe 60% of the last known price-making it probably better value for money than the Nait 1, especially since the Nait1 can readily be bettered by a 42.5/110 that can be had for around the same price-while there's NOTHING in the Naim tuner line that even comes close to the 01.  To come to think of it, 2k may not buy a better tuner even outside the Naim line. 

So, with one enormous provision, the 01 could be very good VFM even at 2k. And that would be the quality of the local broadcasts-for those will determine whether the 01 is your best source or your worst source. This cannot be stressed too much. If your airwaves are decent then it would be worth having the output boards and the MPX boards recapped given the possible age of the 01. The power supply probably is still good-or at least mine is for a circa 1998 model, while recapping the boards gave a mild improvement. 

Also, do not be shy about putting your very best interconnect on it as well as the latest Snaic (the older grey ones did not extract the most from the 01)...the serious NAT-heads have spent more on its interconnect than they did on the tuner itself, and for a good reason. 

A few years ago it was possible to snap up a used 01 for circa $1000, but those days are long over....just like getting an Nait1 for $150. You are paying a premium for not only the quality, but its scarcity. And if you wait another year or three, the price in all likelyhood will make the 2k today look like a steal. An 05XS with a Hicap would cost considerably more than 2k and perform at a much lower level. 

Probably the other way around.  The CB NAT01 has an achilles heel with its FL display, which can fade and eventually disappear completely.  Naim was able to replace this up until only 6 or 7 years ago, but eventually all spare stocks at the factory were used up.  Also, the NAPST PSU arrangement was simplified and improved with the Olive version (it dropped options to also power mooted AM and TV units).  The Olive NAT01 also had the option late in life (and indeed, an option available even after production ceased) of a special version of the XPS2 power supply called the XPS-T which took performance to another level again over the standard unit.  Not many were made or sold - it wasn't even officially listed - but there are some out there, you may get lucky.

Ron Toolsie posted:
PTCM posted:

Finally found a used 01 tuner but price is around twice vs. 02.  Judging from the price,  seems to reflect 03 very behind 02/01 obviously.  

My question is US$2k too much for 01? That is more than a 05 XS.

Anyone one own both 01 and 05 XS can comment?  

$2k?? Well, when it comes to classic legacy Naim gear (I'm thinking Nait 1 and to a lesser extent the Aro) it is standard practice that an item that may be decades old sells for more than it did new. Bear in mind that the 01 last retailed for circa 3.5k$, so the 2k is maybe 60% of the last known price-making it probably better value for money than the Nait 1, especially since the Nait1 can readily be bettered by a 42.5/110 that can be had for around the same price-while there's NOTHING in the Naim tuner line that even comes close to the 01.  To come to think of it, 2k may not buy a better tuner even outside the Naim line. 

 

Ron,

Totally agree with you on the 01.I have had mine for 25 years and it still thrills me with the programs it captures.Its got such a rich unprocessed sort of sound and it just delivers month after month,year after year.Absolutely no simbilance on speech and excellent soundstage imaging

.I am dreading the FM switch off it will be like losing an old friend

The Strat (Fender) posted:

A certain member of this forum who lives near where they make very good pies has such a PSU on his NAT.  No chance then of buying and an XPS and asking Salisbury to adapt?

I'm pretty sure it has to be built as an XPS-T from scratch.  I'm not sure whether Naim still offer it, but I guess if your really want one then there's no harm in asking.

Thanks to everyone's input.  "The CB NAT01 has an achilles heel with its FL display, which can fade and eventually disappear completely." < this is a critical piece of information.

After serious consideration on the pros and cons, US$2K is overpriced for 01 tuner in my opinion and not proceeding for sure. 

 

I had a CB 01 from late 1980s which I bought at the time for about $1800 US (it was used-  I seem to recall I bought it in mid 1990s).  About 10 yrs ago when NANA existed I had it rebuilt and converted to basically a new Olive 01 ( it had to be sent back to Naim in England to be done).  It also cost about $1800 US.  Had both the 01 and PS done and basically had a brand new 01.  I have been using it ever since-

It is my most used source.  I use it in an all olive system.  My other source is CDS 2.   I would not ever sell it even for double the price. I use it with a dedicated roof antenna.  david

I found another 01 with serial no. 35xxx that comes with a NA PST (is this like a HICAP specifically made for 01 only?) .  Is that a Olive? Would this version have problem like CB that the display will eventually fade away completely?

 

Thanks

That's from '87 so an early one - not Olive unless it has had a cosmetic update at the factory.  Again, unless the display has been updated, it's the old FL display prone to fading with time.

The NAPST is a dedicated power supply just for the NAT01.  The original "chrome-bumper" NAPST had additional taps for a mooted AM tuner and a TV tuner that never made it to fruition.

Richard Dane posted:

That's from '87 so an early one - not Olive unless it has had a cosmetic update at the factory.  Again, unless the display has been updated, it's the old FL display prone to fading with time.

The NAPST is a dedicated power supply just for the NAT01.  The original "chrome-bumper" NAPST had additional taps for a mooted AM tuner and a TV tuner that never made it to fruition.

Richard, how about NAT 02 olive with serial no. 132xxx? Does it use that FL display that would fade away completely?

Many thanks in advance.

 

 

 

 

 

It depends how much you value FM. If you really want the best then hold out for a late 01. Just remember whether 01 or 02  you need a strong signal to allow the tuner to do its best so a decent antenna and coax is required (along with an aerial installer who understands what he is doing, not your sky installer type rubbish)

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