Uniti Core......editing in the Music folder

nbpf posted:
ChrisSU posted:
Klout10 posted:

Just a thought: when my HDX went belly-up, I've transferred all my music to a QNAP NAS. All music is in FLAC format. During the last year, I've made some minor changes to the metadata; e.g. adding a question mark to some file names because that was not possible with the HDX.

If I would transfer my music to a Uniti Core, will it be possible to have all the files in the 'music' folder so I can keep on making those minor adjustments using the Naim app? 

It would be a pity if I have to store everything under 'downloads' because to my knowledge, editing seems not possible using the Naim app.

Any thoughts are welcome!

I think you'd be better off keeping externally edited files in the downloads folder and making any further edits using Metadatics or similar, which is very straightforward, just not done from within the app. There are more editing options available doing it like this than there are within the app.

Very good point. If I had a Core (or a US) I would indeed keep all my data in the downloads folder for interoperability and consistency. I guess one can export the music folder data, cleanup the folder and reimport the data into the downloads folder.

As I understand it, Naim have always said that editing metadata or making any other changes in the music folder can cause problems with the database, and must be avoided, in all their servers, and that was the basis of my suggestion. If one finds their editing facilities too limited, that's a separate issue, albeit a valid one, perhaps, especially for those with a classical music collection. 

ChrisSU posted:
nbpf posted:
ChrisSU posted:
Klout10 posted:

Just a thought: when my HDX went belly-up, I've transferred all my music to a QNAP NAS. All music is in FLAC format. During the last year, I've made some minor changes to the metadata; e.g. adding a question mark to some file names because that was not possible with the HDX.

If I would transfer my music to a Uniti Core, will it be possible to have all the files in the 'music' folder so I can keep on making those minor adjustments using the Naim app? 

It would be a pity if I have to store everything under 'downloads' because to my knowledge, editing seems not possible using the Naim app.

Any thoughts are welcome!

I think you'd be better off keeping externally edited files in the downloads folder and making any further edits using Metadatics or similar, which is very straightforward, just not done from within the app. There are more editing options available doing it like this than there are within the app.

Very good point. If I had a Core (or a US) I would indeed keep all my data in the downloads folder for interoperability and consistency. I guess one can export the music folder data, cleanup the folder and reimport the data into the downloads folder.

As I understand it, Naim have always said that editing metadata or making any other changes in the music folder can cause problems with the database, and must be avoided, in all their servers, and that was the basis of my suggestion. ...

I understand that they are supporting metadata editing on the Core only for the music folder. Thus, I have to assume that editing the metadata of files in the music folder through the Naim control point is safe. As you suggests, I would still prefer to edit metadata in the downloads folder using  Metadatics or similar tools. Thus, I would first move my files to the downloads folder and then do the editing there. As I mentioned, I do not have a Core or a US and thus I cannot check if this is actually viable.

ChrisSU posted:

As I understand it, Naim have always said that editing metadata or making any other changes in the music folder can cause problems with the database, and must be avoided, in all their servers, and that was the basis of my suggestion. If one finds their editing facilities too limited, that's a separate issue, albeit a valid one, perhaps, especially for those with a classical music collection. 

Hi,

This is correct - if you manually modify the contents of a music store then you can break the databasing making it no longer possible to be used as a valid Music Store.

Best

Phil Harris

Richard Choong posted:

Phil,

Was the latest firmware update intended to allow editing of metadata in the downloads folder?

Hi Richard,

No ... only music in the Music folder (that ripped on a Core itself or imported from a valid older Naim Music Server Music Store) is able to be edited by the app.

There are no plans to make the app a full-blown tag editor for music in the "Downloads" folder.

Best

Phil

I'm not in the market for a Core - I purchased a US about a year ago - but if I was this would be something that would give me pause.

After you've ripped your cds you move onto downloads. Given that Naim caters for this I'm curious as to why they don't also facilitate editing them via the app. 

Of course there may be unsurmountable technical problems. Happy to be corrected.

Hi Richard, it's a bit of a pity but it makes sense. Naim has not the intention to create a full blown metatdata editor for the Uniti Core. I can imagine when downloading from e.g. Qobuz, I'd just make sure to sort the tagging as I wish with Mp3tag and then transfer to the download folder ...

Klout10 posted:

Hi Richard, it's a bit of a pity but it makes sense. Naim has not the intention to create a full blown metatdata editor for the Uniti Core. I can imagine when downloading from e.g. Qobuz, I'd just make sure to sort the tagging as I wish with Mp3tag and then transfer to the download folder ...

I've found Mp3tag struggles sometimes with hires WAV files from Qobuz, not sure what it is, but sometimes it hangs when tryingto edit the tags in the download. Not from anywhere else, and not with 16/44 files, I keep meaning to raise it as a ticket to Florian. For those, dbPoweramp seems to manage it, but can take several minutes for a file, so there is something odd going on.

Of course if you're running both dbPoweramp and mp3tag, then you also have a very sophisticated ripping and tagging setup outside the Core.

Eoink posted:
Klout10 posted:

Hi Richard, it's a bit of a pity but it makes sense. Naim has not the intention to create a full blown metatdata editor for the Uniti Core. I can imagine when downloading from e.g. Qobuz, I'd just make sure to sort the tagging as I wish with Mp3tag and then transfer to the download folder ...

I've found Mp3tag struggles sometimes with hires WAV files from Qobuz, not sure what it is, but sometimes it hangs when tryingto edit the tags in the download. Not from anywhere else, and not with 16/44 files, I keep meaning to raise it as a ticket to Florian. For those, dbPoweramp seems to manage it, but can take several minutes for a file, so there is something odd going on.

Of course if you're running both dbPoweramp and mp3tag, then you also have a very sophisticated ripping and tagging setup outside the Core.

I have tried a number of metadata editing programs and, for me, Ex Falso works best. I'm on a GNU/Linux system. For portability and convenience, I prefer to store all my audio data as .flac files. These can be transcoded if other formats are needed or wished.

Klout10 posted:

Hi Richard, it's a bit of a pity but it makes sense. Naim has not the intention to create a full blown metatdata editor for the Uniti Core. I can imagine when downloading from e.g. Qobuz, I'd just make sure to sort the tagging as I wish with Mp3tag and then transfer to the download folder ...

Hi Klout, I use Metadatics myself so I'm aware of the workaround.

However using different apps to edit digital music in different folders on the same drive doesn't make much sense to me, which is why I wondered if there were technical difficulties.

Richard Morris posted:
Klout10 posted:

Hi Richard, it's a bit of a pity but it makes sense. Naim has not the intention to create a full blown metatdata editor for the Uniti Core. I can imagine when downloading from e.g. Qobuz, I'd just make sure to sort the tagging as I wish with Mp3tag and then transfer to the download folder ...

Hi Klout, I use Metadatics myself so I'm aware of the workaround.

However using different apps to edit digital music in different folders on the same drive doesn't make much sense to me, which is why I wondered if there were technical difficulties.

There are no difficulties in principle but problems in practice: I understand that both the Core and the US use a proprietary database to store the metadata of (Core or US) rips. These are data that populate the music folder.

If the metadata of files stored in the downloads folder had to be editable with the same software that supports editing the metadata of the files of the music folder, their metadata had to be imported into a database like the one used to manage the metadata of the Core or US rips.

This means that Naim would have to implement an "import" interface for music files that already contain metadata. This is of course doable. But it is not a completely straightforward task: how should those metadata that cannot be represented in the proprietary database (which, as I understand, only supports a rather limited set of indexes)  be treated? Should these be discarded? Should third-party files that contain metadata that cannot be represented in the propritary database not be imported?

I have argued that the way the US and now the Core currently treat their own rips and imported files is a poor compromise. I would prefer a solution in which imported files and internal rips are both first-class citizen.

If at Naim they believe that storing metadata in a separate database is better (no matter in which sense) than storing metadata in the music files themselves, then they should provide a means of doing so for all files, not only for US and Core rips. This requires extending their proprietary database which is a task that is anyway overdue.

Otherwise, they should simply drop the obsolete proprietary database and store the metadata of the files in the music folder in the files themselves. Users could then rely on well established third-party tools like mp3tag, dbpoweramp, etc. to edit the metadata of those (and of the downloads folder) files.

Richard Morris posted:
Klout10 posted:

Hi Richard, it's a bit of a pity but it makes sense. Naim has not the intention to create a full blown metatdata editor for the Uniti Core. I can imagine when downloading from e.g. Qobuz, I'd just make sure to sort the tagging as I wish with Mp3tag and then transfer to the download folder ...

Hi Klout, I use Metadatics myself so I'm aware of the workaround.

However using different apps to edit digital music in different folders on the same drive doesn't make much sense to me, which is why I wondered if there were technical difficulties.

I guess this is just a historical issue with the way the Naim ripper/servers developed. The first versions were only rippers with a music folder, and then the downloads folder was added on as a later update, presumably as a response to the increasing popularity of downloaded purchases vs CD.

Richard Morris posted:

I'm not in the market for a Core - I purchased a US about a year ago - but if I was this would be something that would give me pause.

After you've ripped your cds you move onto downloads. Given that Naim caters for this I'm curious as to why they don't also facilitate editing them via the app. 

Of course there may be unsurmountable technical problems. Happy to be corrected.

like me, i purchased the serve one year ago and no problems. From what i hear about the core, infinite problems, i am finally glad to have the serve. I put a js2 ps on it and the sound quality jumped dramatically.

Klout10 posted:

Hi Richard, it's a bit of a pity but it makes sense. Naim has not the intention to create a full blown metatdata editor for the Uniti Core. I can imagine when downloading from e.g. Qobuz, I'd just make sure to sort the tagging as I wish with Mp3tag and then transfer to the download folder ...

can you explain me the stages to use correctly the mp3tag?  you install this program and after downloading a track from qobuz which is in music folder on my pc, what to do after?

You run up mp3tag, and navigate to the music folder the file is in using the navigation tools on the top bar, then select the file by clicking on it. There is an edit icon which you click on. That shows you the tags that are already there, you can then edit them manually, add new ones, link the folder.jpg file to be a cover image, delete them. There are also some basic autotagging options on the tool bar and you can create your own when you get more used to it.

You can also use the globe icons on the tool bar to get mp3tag to go to Internet databases and autotag it, I've only done that for albums.

when you install mp3tag there is an option to have it included in the windows explorer "right click" options menu (the drop down list with copy, paste, move to etc.). This allows you to right click on and open any folder/file containing audio in the mp3tag program with the existing audio file metadata preloaded.

Eoink posted:

You run up mp3tag, and navigate to the music folder the file is in using the navigation tools on the top bar, then select the file by clicking on it. There is an edit icon which you click on. That shows you the tags that are already there, you can then edit them manually, add new ones, link the folder.jpg file to be a cover image, delete them. There are also some basic autotagging options on the tool bar and you can create your own when you get more used to it.

You can also use the globe icons on the tool bar to get mp3tag to go to Internet databases and autotag it, I've only done that for albums.

thanks. My pc is on windows 7, do i need windows 10?

sjbabbey posted:

when you install mp3tag there is an option to have it included in the windows explorer "right click" options menu (the drop down list with copy, paste, move to etc.). This allows you to right click on and open any folder/file containing audio in the mp3tag program with the existing audio file metadata preloaded.

ok, i will try.  Have you systematically the cover on your naim app with downloads from qobuz?

on my serve, i have never the cover when i put qobuz downloads in the downloads folder. I hope the mp3tag will help me.

mp3tag works quite happily with windows 7. It has been around a long time.

There is also an option (bottom left corner pane) to embed a jpg artwork file in the metadata.

I add a folder.jpg file in the windows folder containing my individual album audio files. I don't have many Quobuz downloads but if they contain an album cover file be sure that it is named folder.jpg. If there is no artwork you can usually google the album name and download a jpg image file from the internet.

sjbabbey posted:

mp3tag works quite happily with windows 7. It has been around a long time.

There is also an option (bottom left corner pane) to embed a jpg artwork file in the metadata.

I add a folder.jpg file in the windows folder containing my individual album audio files. I don't have many Quobuz downloads but if they contain an album cover file be sure that it is named folder.jpg. If there is no artwork you can usually google the album name and download a jpg image file from the internet.

You can also get mp3tag to go looking for artwork, click on the dropdown beside the globe icon on the toolbar, it'll give you the option to search the river (US or Germany) for cover art.

Seeing the subject of the thread, I just thought I'd better be clear that mp3tag is useful for files bought elsewhere for putting in Download. If you're looking at files that have been ripped by the Core, Phil Harris was very clear that editing the metadata in the file could cause problems.

Eoink posted:
sjbabbey posted:

mp3tag works quite happily with windows 7. It has been around a long time.

There is also an option (bottom left corner pane) to embed a jpg artwork file in the metadata.

I add a folder.jpg file in the windows folder containing my individual album audio files. I don't have many Quobuz downloads but if they contain an album cover file be sure that it is named folder.jpg. If there is no artwork you can usually google the album name and download a jpg image file from the internet.

You can also get mp3tag to go looking for artwork, click on the dropdown beside the globe icon on the toolbar, it'll give you the option to search the river (US or Germany) for cover art.

Well, you learn something new every day. I've been using mp3tag for years and never used that globe icon function. Thanks for the tip.

sjbabbey posted:

mp3tag works quite happily with windows 7. It has been around a long time.

There is also an option (bottom left corner pane) to embed a jpg artwork file in the metadata.

I add a folder.jpg file in the windows folder containing my individual album audio files. I don't have many Quobuz downloads but if they contain an album cover file be sure that it is named folder.jpg. If there is no artwork you can usually google the album name and download a jpg image file from the internet.

the download from qobuz comes with a jpg folder, but it doesn't appear on the naim app after. I don't know why.   Before i used desktop client for naim unitserve and was adding covers, downloaded from google. But it doesn't work anymore.

I hope one day we will be able to buy directly, from different sites, albums directly on naim app  associated with these sites, so not using pc anymore....

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