UnitiCore - Does what it says on the box ..... or not !

Description.... "Uniti Core is the ultimate fuss-free, no-compromise solution to ripping, storing, cataloguing and playing your entire music collection."

I have had dozens of Naim units over the years and didnt consider changing until recently but it looked as though it would be an easy upgrade for a streaming novice like me, replacing my CDS3 with a UnitiCore and NDS. Well, i have spent more hours on the internet and forums in the last few days than i can remember in a long while.

Basically it is not very good at doing what it is supposed to.

I have ripped a couple of hundred CDs so far. Many dont have the album cover art. Some of them then tell me its a completely different album along with listing all the wrong tracks. However i can then say its not this one, it then presents me with a massive list of others which it isnt ! On a few of the correct albums the odd tracks are just a few random letters. Others come up as the date for the album and track01 etc for the tracks. I have a very small number of CDs that it wouldnt rip, i noticed it was always the last track that was failing so i left it and finally after 50 minutes it finished one of them but i have given up on the others. Has anyone else had this problem, is the CD drive capable of reading all the way to the outer edge of all CDs ?

Apparently i cant edit the infomation..... I see that there will be some sort of update for tags. Will it correct all the errors or will i have to re-rip the affected CDs ? If so, is it worth carrying on until its sorted. And dont get me started about the high output from the NDS with my 252 volume control moving about 15 degrees before its deafening........

Original Post

Even if the Core was working as it was advertised to do, ripping a CD collection using device-specific, propritary formats would not be a good idea in my view.

Rip your collection to .flac files using an established software (see http://www.thewelltemperedcomp...om/Intro/Ripping.htm) running on a general purpose computer under the OS of your choice. Edit the rips metadata with a software you feel comfortable with and check your work running MinimServer on the same computer that you use to rip and to edit the matadata.

Once you are happy with your work and with the way you can browse your collection in a control point, import your collection into the Core.

I too have had similar problems and hope Naim sort this mess out. I guess my main complaint is the lack of transparency from NAim or much in the way of comment. I complained of cds not ripping with the last tracks not completed......no idea what Naim are doing about this.

we need to know what is being worked on and a timeline for a fix?

nbpf posted:

Even if the Core was working as it was advertised to do, ripping a CD collection using device-specific, propritary formats would not be a good idea in my view.

Rip your collection to .flac files using an established software (see http://www.thewelltemperedcomp...om/Intro/Ripping.htm) running on a general purpose computer under the OS of your choice. Edit the rips metadata with a software you feel comfortable with and check your work running MinimServer on the same computer that you use to rip and to edit the matadata.

Once you are happy with your work and with the way you can browse your collection in a control point, import your collection into the Core.

Isn't that the OP's point The Core is supposed to do all of that, should you not be able to pop a CD in have it ripped an data stored hassle free? Isn't that what it is supposed be a one stop one shop ripping device, ' Your mucic collection re imagined" and all that.

not sure how big the market will be for the core,  most who want streaming would have ripped large collections by now, and if you are ripping a few at a time then its easy to do by other means ,   the all in one units look the solution for most customers and will surely be a great sell for naim

nbpf posted:

Even if the Core was working as it was advertised to do, ripping a CD collection using device-specific, propritary formats would not be a good idea in my view.

Rip your collection to .flac files using an established software (see http://www.thewelltemperedcomp...om/Intro/Ripping.htm) running on a general purpose computer under the OS of your choice. Edit the rips metadata with a software you feel comfortable with and check your work running MinimServer on the same computer that you use to rip and to edit the matadata.

Once you are happy with your work and with the way you can browse your collection in a control point, import your collection into the Core.

Avoiding all that gobbledygook is exactly why i bought the UnitiCore !

Naim are still saying early April for metadata editing on the Core.  And I have found ripping is better since the firmware upgrade, although the metadata is no better.  But they will be very interested in details of specific CDs that don't rip with good data on the Core. You should drop Phil Harris a line at Naim about that as he may not read this thread.  Phil.harris@naimaudio.com

best

David

Thanks David, i have just sent Phil the following...

I have just ripped the CD that took 50 minutes on my core using a portable LG CD drive on my laptop into WindowsMP as a WAV and it took 5 minutes. The final track that took over 40 minutes on the core was a bit slower but completed in 50 seconds.

Maurice Andre - EMI 7243 5 73374 2 7  .   Disc 2 ,  which is printed as EMI 7243 5 73376 2 5   ( in case anyone on here has it )

I also included the details of a couple of CDs that show no data but are fine in the portable CD drive on my laptop.

Doyen     DOY CD236 , DOY CD199

I bought it as a Simple Quality solution to my CD library. However, while it is certainly the latter, it is definately not the former.

Whilst it wasnt my intention to get all techy, I have just signed up to the beta program to try and help.

Hopefully, soon it will achieve the standard normally assiociated with the NAIM name ....

Gazza posted:

I too have had similar problems and hope Naim sort this mess out. I guess my main complaint is the lack of transparency from NAim or much in the way of comment. I complained of cds not ripping with the last tracks not completed......no idea what Naim are doing about this.

we need to know what is being worked on and a timeline for a fix?

Hi Gazza,

If you are having issues with one or more discs not ripping completely then can I get you to do three things please?

1) Pull a copy of the album from the Music folder on your Core (complete with the Artist folder and Album folder) and ZIP it so it's a single archive that can be easily transferred to us via WeTransfer / DropBox / OneDrive etc.

2) If you have a Windows PC then grab a copy of IMGBurn and create an image of the disc itself as a .cue / .bin file and ZIP those files into a single archive that can be easily transferred to us via WeTransfer / DropBox / OneDrive etc.

3) Contact me directly at phil.harris@naimaudio.com and we'll get those files over to us and we can look into what is going on.

Best

Phil

Red Kite posted:

Thanks David, i have just sent Phil the following...

I have just ripped the CD that took 50 minutes on my core using a portable LG CD drive on my laptop into WindowsMP as a WAV and it took 5 minutes. The final track that took over 40 minutes on the core was a bit slower but completed in 50 seconds.

Maurice Andre - EMI 7243 5 73374 2 7  .   Disc 2 ,  which is printed as EMI 7243 5 73376 2 5   ( in case anyone on here has it )

I also included the details of a couple of CDs that show no data but are fine in the portable CD drive on my laptop.

Doyen     DOY CD236 , DOY CD199

I bought it as a Simple Quality solution to my CD library. However, while it is certainly the latter, it is definately not the former.

Whilst it wasnt my intention to get all techy, I have just signed up to the beta program to try and help.

Hopefully, soon it will achieve the standard normally assiociated with the NAIM name ....

...and I've just replied to you too.

Thanks

Phil

Hi Phil, I passed the disc info weeks ago to someone in the support team. I am not a computer expert and I bought the uniti core so I did not have to mess about doing as you suggested. I know many on the forum enjoy the fiddling around with computers, I do not. I bought the core to rip and then play the music, nothing else. Happy to ship the cds if needed.

Red Kite posted:

Description.... "Uniti Core is the ultimate fuss-free, no-compromise solution to ripping, storing, cataloguing and playing your entire music collection."

I have had dozens of Naim units over the years and didnt consider changing until recently but it looked as though it would be an easy upgrade for a streaming novice like me, replacing my CDS3 with a UnitiCore and NDS. Well, i have spent more hours on the internet and forums in the last few days than i can remember in a long while.

Basically it is not very good at doing what it is supposed to.

I have ripped a couple of hundred CDs so far. Many dont have the album cover art. Some of them then tell me its a completely different album along with listing all the wrong tracks. However i can then say its not this one, it then presents me with a massive list of others which it isnt ! On a few of the correct albums the odd tracks are just a few random letters. Others come up as the date for the album and track01 etc for the tracks. I have a very small number of CDs that it wouldnt rip, i noticed it was always the last track that was failing so i left it and finally after 50 minutes it finished one of them but i have given up on the others. Has anyone else had this problem, is the CD drive capable of reading all the way to the outer edge of all CDs ?

Apparently i cant edit the infomation..... I see that there will be some sort of update for tags. Will it correct all the errors or will i have to re-rip the affected CDs ? If so, is it worth carrying on until its sorted. And dont get me started about the high output from the NDS with my 252 volume control moving about 15 degrees before its deafening........

i have the unitserve and tried the core, and had the same problems. Sometimes i just restarted the nds and unitserve, then finally all my tracks appeared finally. Sometimes i need to clean more the cd to rip, with 90 degree alcohol. But sometimes it did not work.

As for covert albums or albums dispatched in several tracks, it is a common thing with unitserve and the core. You will have to wait april until to have the possibility to change the metadata ( on unitserve it is the desktop client).  With the melco the same problems, but even worse...

Bob the Builder posted:
nbpf posted:

Even if the Core was working as it was advertised to do, ripping a CD collection using device-specific, propritary formats would not be a good idea in my view.

Rip your collection to .flac files using an established software (see http://www.thewelltemperedcomp...om/Intro/Ripping.htm) running on a general purpose computer under the OS of your choice. Edit the rips metadata with a software you feel comfortable with and check your work running MinimServer on the same computer that you use to rip and to edit the matadata.

Once you are happy with your work and with the way you can browse your collection in a control point, import your collection into the Core.

Isn't that the OP's point The Core is supposed to do all of that, should you not be able to pop a CD in have it ripped an data stored hassle free? Isn't that what it is supposed be a one stop one shop ripping device, ' Your mucic collection re imagined" and all that.

I do not know precisely what the Core is supposed to do but I am a little bit skeptical when I hear phrases like "hassle free ripping", let apart the reimagination of one's music collection: what I do imagine is that most Core users would be perfectly fine if their devices would plainly import their data by just preserving existing information and without any form of reimagination. 

 

However, the point that I was trying to make is that, even if the Core would work properly, it might still be a good idea to do the ripping and metadata editing on a computer and by using open formats and platform independent tools.

I am not arguing that the OP should do so. I know that systems like the Core precisely aim at simplifying the tasks of ripping, editing and maintaining a music library. But I also know that such a simplification does not come for free. For some users, it might in fact be an oversimplification or even a complication. 

It goes without saying that there are no right and wrong choices. The OP will have to make his own.  Since the OP has bought a Core, I assume that he is already aware of the potentially negative consequences of taking the process of ripping and maintaining a music collection in his own hands. The purpose of my original post was to remind him of the potentially negative consequences of adopting device-specific solutions and proprietary formats.

Red Kite posted:
nbpf posted:

Even if the Core was working as it was advertised to do, ripping a CD collection using device-specific, propritary formats would not be a good idea in my view.

Rip your collection to .flac files using an established software (see http://www.thewelltemperedcomp...om/Intro/Ripping.htm) running on a general purpose computer under the OS of your choice. Edit the rips metadata with a software you feel comfortable with and check your work running MinimServer on the same computer that you use to rip and to edit the matadata.

Once you are happy with your work and with the way you can browse your collection in a control point, import your collection into the Core.

Avoiding all that gobbledygook is exactly why i bought the UnitiCore !

I know and I am sure that Naim will readily fix the most severe issues that are currently limiting the Core's usability. With my post, I only wanted to make you aware of the fact that there is no silver bullet solution to the tasks of ripping, editing, maintaining and storing a music library. It is possible that the Core is (or, rather, will be) a perfect fit for you. But it might also turn out that you find it easier to tackle these tasks using a more flexible, device independent approach. Sometimes facing a probelm is much easier than trying to avoid it.

nbpf posted:

I do not know precisely what the Core is supposed to do but I am a little bit skeptical when I hear phrases like "hassle free ripping", let apart the reimagination of one's music collection: what I do imagine is that most Core users would be perfectly fine if their devices would plainly import their data by just preserving existing information and without any form of reimagination. 

However, the point that I was trying to make is that, even if the Core would work properly, it might still be a good idea to do the ripping and metadata editing on a computer and by using open formats and platform independent tools.

I am not arguing that the OP should do so. I know that systems like the Core precisely aim at simplifying the tasks of ripping, editing and maintaining a music library. But I also know that such a simplification does not come for free. For some users, it might in fact be an oversimplification or even a complication. 

It goes without saying that there are no right and wrong choices. The OP will have to make his own.  Since the OP has bought a Core, I assume that he is already aware of the potentially negative consequences of taking the process of ripping and maintaining a music collection in his own hands. The purpose of my original post was to remind him of the potentially negative consequences of adopting device-specific solutions and proprietary formats.

Hi nbpf,

Just a quick point ... we're not using any proprietary formats for the audio data on any of our rippers / servers and so it will always be possible to use those files even if there was a "Day The Earth Stood Still" type invasion of nanites that only ate Naim anodized aluminium and all the Naim Cores were eaten overnight.

Thanks

Phil

Phil Harris posted:
nbpf posted:

I do not know precisely what the Core is supposed to do but I am a little bit skeptical when I hear phrases like "hassle free ripping", let apart the reimagination of one's music collection: what I do imagine is that most Core users would be perfectly fine if their devices would plainly import their data by just preserving existing information and without any form of reimagination. 

However, the point that I was trying to make is that, even if the Core would work properly, it might still be a good idea to do the ripping and metadata editing on a computer and by using open formats and platform independent tools.

I am not arguing that the OP should do so. I know that systems like the Core precisely aim at simplifying the tasks of ripping, editing and maintaining a music library. But I also know that such a simplification does not come for free. For some users, it might in fact be an oversimplification or even a complication. 

It goes without saying that there are no right and wrong choices. The OP will have to make his own.  Since the OP has bought a Core, I assume that he is already aware of the potentially negative consequences of taking the process of ripping and maintaining a music collection in his own hands. The purpose of my original post was to remind him of the potentially negative consequences of adopting device-specific solutions and proprietary formats.

Hi nbpf,

Just a quick point ... we're not using any proprietary formats for the audio data on any of our rippers / servers and so it will always be possible to use those files even if there was a "Day The Earth Stood Still" type invasion of nanites that only ate Naim anodized aluminium and all the Naim Cores were eaten overnight.

Thanks

Phil

Thanks for the clarification Phil. In this case, it should not be a problem for Core users to export their Core rips as .flac files, edit what they need or want to edit and reimport the edited files into the Core, should it? This might be a bit annoying, but it would be a temporarily workaround until Naim has implemented full support for metadata editing. Is there anything wrong with this workflow?

nbpf posted:

Thanks for the clarification Phil. In this case, it should not be a problem for Core users to export their Core rips as .flac files, edit what they need or want to edit and reimport the edited files into the Core, should it? This might be a bit annoying, but it would be a temporarily workaround until Naim has implemented full support for metadata editing. Is there anything wrong with this workflow?

No - the audio file formats are non-proprietary but the databasing is proprietary and as such if you take an album outside of the Naim Core "infrastructure" to edit it then you can't push it back in to where it came from however if you wanted to take a copy of the album ripped as a FLAC, edit it and then put it back into the "Downloads" folder you certainly could do so if you had the wherewithal to do so but that album would no longer be managed by the Core as you have manually edited it.

As I said, the music files are not proprietary so if you did at some point in the future want to take them outside of the Core and use them on another system then you would be able to do so so we don't in any way lock those files into a Naim-only system.

Cheers

Phil

Gazza posted:

Hi Phil, I passed the disc info weeks ago to someone in the support team. I am not a computer expert and I bought the uniti core so I did not have to mess about doing as you suggested. I know many on the forum enjoy the fiddling around with computers, I do not. I bought the core to rip and then play the music, nothing else. Happy to ship the cds if needed.

Hi Gazza,

I would rather not pull the CDs back here if possible (as then there's always a risk of them going AWOL) but if you are happy to send them back to me at the main Naim snail-mail address then I will make sure that they are checked and seen by the software team to see what is going on however it would be really useful to get access to the rips that are on your Core too so that they can be checked through as well... 

If you can identify specific discs that have issues then I could log in remotely if you wish and I could transfer copies of those albums over for us to take a look at...

...but it would be great if you could contact me directly by email so we can arrange this.

Best

Phil

Phil Harris posted:
nbpf posted:

Thanks for the clarification Phil. In this case, it should not be a problem for Core users to export their Core rips as .flac files, edit what they need or want to edit and reimport the edited files into the Core, should it? This might be a bit annoying, but it would be a temporarily workaround until Naim has implemented full support for metadata editing. Is there anything wrong with this workflow?

No - the audio file formats are non-proprietary but the databasing is proprietary and as such if you take an album outside of the Naim Core "infrastructure" to edit it then you can't push it back in to where it came from however if you wanted to take a copy of the album ripped as a FLAC, edit it and then put it back into the "Downloads" folder you certainly could do so if you had the wherewithal to do so but that album would no longer be managed by the Core as you have manually edited it.

As I said, the music files are not proprietary so if you did at some point in the future want to take them outside of the Core and use them on another system then you would be able to do so so we don't in any way lock those files into a Naim-only system.

Cheers

Phil

Why so? The proprietary database is not a problem but what seems to be missing is an interface for importing .FLAC files into the Core's infrastructure and proprietary database.

Without an importFLAC interface, Core users will not be able to put their data under the Core's control, for instance, to take advantage of the Core's upcoming metadata editing capabilities. This suggests that Core's users will have to use two different approaches for editing the metadata of Core rips and for editing the metadata of music they have bought from, say, prestoclassical or hyperion. This makes little sense to me. 

In contrast, a fully symmetric exportFLAC / importFLAC interface would very much improve interoperability, make the "Downloads" folder obsolete and, finally, simplify the internal software architecture of the Core.

nbpf posted:

Why so? The proprietary database is not a problem but what seems to be missing is an interface for importing .FLAC files into the Core's infrastructure and proprietary database.

Without an importFLAC interface, Core users will not be able to put their data under the Core's control, for instance, to take advantage of the Core's upcoming metadata editing capabilities. This suggests that Core's users will have to use two different approaches for editing the metadata of Core rips and for editing the metadata of music they have bought from, say, prestoclassical or hyperion. This makes little sense to me. 

In contrast, a fully symmetric exportFLAC / importFLAC interface would very much improve interoperability, make the "Downloads" folder obsolete and, finally, simplify the internal software architecture of the Core.

Hi nbpf,

There is no intention for the Cores metadata editing facilities to be applicable to third party audio files - if you have "outside" music that wasn't ripped on Core then you simply drop it into the downloads folder and it will be indexed and assimilated into the library.

Anything ripped on the Core can be edited using the editing that will be in the app and anything not ripped on the core is indexed and used with the metadata payload that it carries - this is the same as on the existing servers.

Best

Phil

I think that there are so many users experiencing these problems with metadata that there has to be a recognition that there is a fundamental issue to be resolved.

a worry for me, based on comments above, is that many of the CD's I have imported from a nas drive (that were ripped on the HDX, have now gone into the core data storage with nonsense or blank metadata. Now these were not ripped on the core but we're done on the HDX. Above comments suggest this data may not be editable in the app.

the other question in the original listing asks if updated software will automatically correct these errors, or require re ripping if CD's. I don't believe this has been answered, but am interested as my listing on the core is not at over 8000 albums, imported and maybe around 100 with missing/wrong metadata

Phil Harris posted:
nbpf posted:

Why so? The proprietary database is not a problem but what seems to be missing is an interface for importing .FLAC files into the Core's infrastructure and proprietary database.

Without an importFLAC interface, Core users will not be able to put their data under the Core's control, for instance, to take advantage of the Core's upcoming metadata editing capabilities. This suggests that Core's users will have to use two different approaches for editing the metadata of Core rips and for editing the metadata of music they have bought from, say, prestoclassical or hyperion. This makes little sense to me. 

In contrast, a fully symmetric exportFLAC / importFLAC interface would very much improve interoperability, make the "Downloads" folder obsolete and, finally, simplify the internal software architecture of the Core.

Hi nbpf,

There is no intention for the Cores metadata editing facilities to be applicable to third party audio files - if you have "outside" music that wasn't ripped on Core then you simply drop it into the downloads folder and it will be indexed and assimilated into the library.

Anything ripped on the Core can be edited using the editing that will be in the app and anything not ripped on the core is indexed and used with the metadata payload that it carries - this is the same as on the existing servers.

Best

Phil

Phil, that makes little sense to me. I can imagine that there will be users that prefer editing metadata using the Naim app and others that will prefer doing so using other programs. But I can hardly imagine any user wanting to have to use (let apart learn) two different programs for metadata editing. It seems an unnecessary complication with no obvious advantage for experts and obvious disadvantages for beginners. I might be missing something, of course. Best, nbpf

nbpf posted:
Phil Harris posted:
nbpf posted:

Why so? The proprietary database is not a problem but what seems to be missing is an interface for importing .FLAC files into the Core's infrastructure and proprietary database.

Without an importFLAC interface, Core users will not be able to put their data under the Core's control, for instance, to take advantage of the Core's upcoming metadata editing capabilities. This suggests that Core's users will have to use two different approaches for editing the metadata of Core rips and for editing the metadata of music they have bought from, say, prestoclassical or hyperion. This makes little sense to me. 

In contrast, a fully symmetric exportFLAC / importFLAC interface would very much improve interoperability, make the "Downloads" folder obsolete and, finally, simplify the internal software architecture of the Core.

Hi nbpf,

There is no intention for the Cores metadata editing facilities to be applicable to third party audio files - if you have "outside" music that wasn't ripped on Core then you simply drop it into the downloads folder and it will be indexed and assimilated into the library.

Anything ripped on the Core can be edited using the editing that will be in the app and anything not ripped on the core is indexed and used with the metadata payload that it carries - this is the same as on the existing servers.

Best

Phil

Phil, that makes little sense to me. I can imagine that there will be users that prefer editing metadata using the Naim app and others that will prefer doing so using other programs. But I can hardly imagine any user wanting to have to use (let apart learn) two different programs for metadata editing. It seems an unnecessary complication with no obvious advantage for experts and obvious disadvantages for beginners. I might be missing something, of course. Best, nbpf

Totally agree with nbpf. If core is supposed to be a single mechanism for an user to manage his/her digital music then it should provide single mechanism to manage the metadata for music either ripped by core or imported to core (or copied to downloads). 

Regards,

Sourav

I suggest we wait to see what the metadata editing version of the software and firmware actually brings before continuing to pontificate about unknowns. 

For myself this will be the critical step as one who bought a core myself. 

Core as a product stands or falls as an entire package at that point. 

Can I add some of my experience ripping about 2000 CDs with dBPoweramp. 

Firstly I found that CDs are read centre to outside so the last track issues that the OP is having also happened to me and many were responsive to some cleaning  of the CD as this is where fingerprints were most likely to be an issue. I used ROR (residual oil remover) and selvyt cloth. 

 

The PC I use has 2 drives a CD and DVD-R. Sometimes when a last track was taking too long switching to the other drive sorted the issue. I worked out the CD drive was better able to rip than the DVD one. 

Then there were some that dBPoweramp wanted to re-rip nearly every frame which is what I presume is happening when you get 50 minute rips. I found that if I went to the other PC we have that these invariably ripped fine. So there seems to be different capabilities between different CD-ROM drives in their ability to rip. If you can bring one of the 50 minute rips into your dealer and see if a different drive (Core machine) can do better. 

My experience is that after cleaning it is the CD-ROM drives that are the main factor and I had very few CDs that didn't rip on one of my 3 drives. 

.sjb 

Naim have created a dismal and depressing situation. I agree with the OP. I too bought the Core on the basis of their website marketing that the Core is a “fuss free, no-compromise solution” yet I despair.

This is almost a £2K device once you add a drive. Reading the above comment from Naim that the April update is still going to be incapable of correcting/editing simple data elements stored on the internal drive makes me wonder what to make of this company. I expected basic functionality such as this would be present from the day I purchased it. Buyer beware comes to mind.

So from April (or whenever) the Core will still allow me to identify the correct album via the App and still not be able to apply it’s art-work or correct tracks because the music is on the internal drive but stored in a folder with a specific name (Downloads) rather than something it ripped which is stored in another folder. If this is the case, this isn’t a technical constraint. That is a feature,  by design. Someone hasn't bothered to design it to do what the buyers of the product fully and reasonably expect.

I guess I’m just stuck with many ugly grey boxes in the App. Or do I now have to go and find pictures and work out how to do that manually? 50% of my music is CDs I re-ripped through the Core and 50% (and growing) is downloads. Most of the rips were identified ok. The purpose of the Core as I see it is rapidly diminishing. It ain’t fuss-free and it certainly isn’t a no-compromise solution.  To release such an unfinished product is shameful.

Do Naim’s dealers now know to explain that "no, it doesn’t allow editing of all your existing music stored inside it,  so its not really a single store / management as you need to buy or own another system or computer and software to do that and to then move the music files around, edit them, move them back, not screw it all up..." ?

I wrote down all the issues with the app and device’s operation but quite frankly doing Naim’s job for them given how much of my budget this cost makes me feel rather unwell so I don't think I'll send that on, at least not until I know its worth the effort and what Naim's plans are post April release.  Anyone know how long a Naim dealer will provide a full refund after purchase?

My DAC-V1 and NAP100 lead me to think the Core was a sensible route to go but no. I know it’s not the 10’s of thousands of £££s that a lot of Naim customer spend on their passion but even so! I feel sorry for those that like me, buy a Core without knowing the reality of this product’s (inc the App's) abject failings. I seem to be hanging on the idea that Naim will release an upgrade to the device and to that utterly atrocious App but that seems to be misguided on my part too.

So it seems I’ve been mislead by the marketing of what I felt was a reputable company into putting a couple of mortgage payments in to their coffers for a rather rotten device that looked likely to fit a nice gap in the market, and in my small music system, if only it were fit for purpose. It’s so close but Naim seem to purposely be hobbling it.

TBH, I don’t care much about the technology. I just enjoyed music. With this product I don’t hear the music much any more. I just see the red mist rising.

I do hope Naim step up for this product but it seems unlikely. 

i think naim will perform this metadata problem of the core but not solve it completely. 

My unitserve, which had around  7 years of development, presents also the same problems but less important. I have around 300 albums ripped and 150 downloads: 5 % of the albums present on my serve had a wrong cover, or no cover, or not the good tittle or dispatched in several tracks.  So i had to use my pc to correct the wrong metadata : i feel it annoying and hoped the core would solve this. But no, it is even worse ( i had a core for 3/4 days).

But i don't see a product that can be better with my nds, a one box solution that rips and store  and have naim musicality. I was a little disappointed by the melco n1a and don't think the innuos zenith or antipodes will give better solution. ( from what i read).

Keler Pierre posted:

 I was a little disappointed by the melco n1a and don't think the innuos zenith or antipodes will give better solution. ( from what i read).

I think you have been misinformed, I have an Innuos Zenith, and it doesn't have any of the problems described above.

For a start, it is perfectly possible, after inserting a cd, to view and edit all metadata before ripping.

as ive said before after years of ripping/streaming cant really see the point of the core but other units to come are more important to the new naim customers.  ive had a zone ripper for 5 years and with dbpower its been a great solution linked to the NDX.  /MUSO QB which in truth is not used much.  friends that listen to the Qb love the compact streaming option so this one box solution is the way forward for naims new range.  you do need to clean each cd before ripping and this included new ones too.   I never rip a cd on the release date it seems meta date is sometimes not found.   the new hollies box set wouldnt rip on release day but a few days later all 6 cds ripped after cleaning with micro cleaning cloth

100%  Audio1946,  if you've already ripped a 'collection' of CD's on PC/Mac with dBp or whatever,  there is no point in a Core (the ripper/store concept).    If you are just moving into network player land, & more so you are an IT numpty, then it makes sense as an alternative to PC/Mac/dBp.

Morton posted:
Keler Pierre posted:

 I was a little disappointed by the melco n1a and don't think the innuos zenith or antipodes will give better solution. ( from what i read).

I think you have been misinformed, I have an Innuos Zenith, and it doesn't have any of the problems described above.

For a start, it is perfectly possible, after inserting a cd, to view and edit all metadata before ripping.

perhaps for the metadata the innuos is better, but for sound quality, i have not tested but the reviews point better prat for the unitserve, in ethernet mode.  

Keler Pierre posted:
Morton posted:
Keler Pierre posted:

 I was a little disappointed by the melco n1a and don't think the innuos zenith or antipodes will give better solution. ( from what i read).

I think you have been misinformed, I have an Innuos Zenith, and it doesn't have any of the problems described above.

For a start, it is perfectly possible, after inserting a cd, to view and edit all metadata before ripping.

perhaps for the metadata the innuos is better, but for sound quality, i have not tested but the reviews point better prat for the unitserve, in ethernet mode.  

It is not 'perhaps' & I think you owe it to yourself to go and have a listen rather than just rely on something you have read.
As for whether any of these type of units sound better than a nas, I have no idea, but I do know they don't all sound the same. I was fully intending to buy a Zen until I went to a demo where a guy from Innuos compared a Zen with a Zenith.

audio1946 posted:

  ive had a zone ripper for 5 years and with dbpower its been a great solution linked to the NDX.  you do need to clean each cd before ripping and this included new ones too.  

That doesn't give me confidence in its abilities if you need to clean a brand new CD before ripping ?

jon honeyball posted:

I suggest we wait to see what the metadata editing version of the software and firmware actually brings before continuing to pontificate about unknowns. 

For myself this will be the critical step as one who bought a core myself. 

Core as a product stands or falls as an entire package at that point. 

I am not a Core owner but I disagree with your analysis.

In my view the crucial issue is that, as Phil has made clear a few posts above, even if metadata editing will soon be implemented, it will allow users to edit Core rips only.

This sucks. Far from being a "seamless solution", it means that users will further have to manage the files that they have bought from, say, Prestoclassical, Hyperion or Qobuz in a different way from Core rips.

It is possible that US owners are used to this fussiness and find it "normal". For non-expert end users and for users that own a lot of third party audio files, it is a poor design that brings unnecessary complications for no obvious advantages: you buy hassle-free ripping at the expense of hassle-full data management.

A music server should first and foremost support importing .FLAC third party audio files with fine grained control over import rules: preserve existing metadata verbatim, extend metadata, override metadata, etc.

After successful import,  the third party data should have the same status of the internal rips.

If Naim's proprietary internal database is not flexible enough to cope with full fledged .FLAC metadata, they should first fix the database.

This is far more important than adding functionalities that, until Naim is ready with a stable, full fledged solution for editing metadata, can be taken care of by well tested, established third party software.

I installed my Core last night, fitted it with a spare 2TB hard drive I had (Toshiba E300) and so far so good.  It did take a while for the app to find it - maybe down to me using an AE as wireless bridge to the AE Extreme at the other side of the house - but once I left to make a cup of tea, came back and powered up again, it was there on the app, waiting for the setup.  

The setup itself was very straightforward and the app holds your hand through each step.  I ripped a handful of discs I had on hand in the room and while none of them were exactly mainstream releases, all the look-ups were spot on and only one where the cover art couldn't be found - not too surprising as it's not easy to find even on google image search!

I am using it in the main system as an s/pdif feed to the DAC and, connected by a DC1 cable, a short listen shows that the performance is well up to expectations.  I haven't tried it as a server to the streamers elsewhere in the house yet.  That will come later today.

I agree that metadata editing is needed, and it's a bit of a shame it didn't make the early release, but it's not been a deal breaker so far - it's early days of course and maybe this will change once I get a bad look-up. However, the fuss-free ripping - just push in the disc and a few minutes later take it out again - has certainly been seen as a positive boon by my girlfriend.  It'll play from the HDD as well while it's ripping, which is nice.  Oh, and even with a 2TB drive installed it's really, really, quiet - I've had way noisier CD players! So far, I'm liking it very much and it's doing what I expected.

Good to hear it's working for you Richard. I think the metadata problem is far worse for imports from a Unitiserve than it is if you rip the CDs afresh, but anyway we can expect this will be solved soon.

Regarding the wait for the app to see the Core, my experience is that it often takes a minute or two for the Core to appear on line and indeed Naim warn of that when you do a Core firmware update, so I doubt that it's your network or anything to worry about.

best

David

Richard Dane posted:

...

I am using it in the main system as an s/pdif feed to the DAC and, connected by a DC1 cable, a short listen shows that the performance is well up to expectations.  ...

...

That would be precisely my use-case for a Core. It would allow me to replace 4 boxes with a single one. I would be grateful if you could provide some comparisons to approaches relying on s/pdif bridges, once the Core has settled in. Best, nbpf

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