Used Supernait or new XS2

Yep, display off, mute on when not in use. That's what we all do most of the time. Usual advice is switch off if not used for days or during thunderstorms. Some reckon it can take a day to come on song after power up. And besides, a light bulb usually dies when you press the switch. Constant power up means longer life I believe. 

Great thanks Ray.  i had no idea you could turn the display off.. does that turn the Naim sign off as well as the button lights?

i am also thinking about trying some NAC A5 cable in place of the TQ Ultra Black I am currently using.  Can someone tell me what length is recommended by Naim; I can't remember if it was 3m minimum or something like that

They recommend at least 3m. Coincidently I've just took receipt of Tellurium black II to replace Naca5 and liking it so far. Pre burned.

For me it's calmed the over bearing mid bass and bass whilst improving the mid a little and slightly more open top end. 

Try what you have first and at least demo Naca5 at home before buying.

Many Naim owners like the TQ cable.

I'm using Supernait and PMC 25.23.

Well I received the XS2 yesterday but due to a couple of busy days I've only just unpacked it and placed it very carefully in the system along with the Living Voice

Very initial impressions are as follows,  I am useless with 'hifi speak' so I'll just say it as I find it:

(1)  My LV's have been given a 'wake up'   (2)  Sounds absolutely nothing like my valve amps, which is exactly what I expected  (3)  I have bass that I didn't have before  (4)  It tracks a tune very well.. this one is very difficult to explain but I can somehow follow an instrument/tune/beat really easily, in fact it seems to 'lock onto' it

And one final thought that overrides everything is it's a sound that's tricky to ignore... difficult to explain but with my valve amps I could leave the music playing while I go about my business and almost forget the music is on but the Naim grabs more of my attention somehow

Like I said I'm really rubbish at hifi speak but it's the best I can do at the moment

I will come back with more thoughts once I have more time with my new toy    

 

 

If the music is more attention grabbing, and it's easier to follow and understand, I'd say you've ended up with a damn good choice.  Music is the reason we own this stuff, and hifi-speak means nothing without music.  I like that your comments are largely focused around music and your perception of it, rather than the usual bass this and treble that.  I'm guilty of rambling about those things sometimes, but it's usually when something 'hifi' is messing up my enjoyment of music.

Thanks Songstream.  I'm glad my thoughts make some sort of sense

You are spot on about the music being the most important thing and definitely not the hifi, although that needs to be right, of course

So far I am very happy with the XS2, and this one does not seem to have any channel imbalance at low levels that I noticed when I had a loaner for a little while some time ago

Nina posted:

Well I received the XS2 yesterday but due to a couple of busy days I've only just unpacked it and placed it very carefully in the system along with the Living Voice

Very initial impressions are as follows,  I am useless with 'hifi speak' so I'll just say it as I find it:

(1)  My LV's have been given a 'wake up'   (2)  Sounds absolutely nothing like my valve amps, which is exactly what I expected  (3)  I have bass that I didn't have before  (4)  It tracks a tune very well.. this one is very difficult to explain but I can somehow follow an instrument/tune/beat really easily, in fact it seems to 'lock onto' it

And one final thought that overrides everything is it's a sound that's tricky to ignore... difficult to explain but with my valve amps I could leave the music playing while I go about my business and almost forget the music is on but the Naim grabs more of my attention somehow

Like I said I'm really rubbish at hifi speak but it's the best I can do at the moment

I will come back with more thoughts once I have more time with my new toy    

 

 

The Naim XS2 managed to grab your attention because it has the "Naim sound" which you appear to like. The Naim excels in pace, rhythm and timing and will make most amps sound "off" in these areas.  Since your previous amps are tubes, I am not surprised you have found a profound difference between the amps.

By the way, if the XS2 continues to amaze it may be worthwhile to explore the Hicap DR. From my understanding the Hicap DR may or may not please all Supernait 2 owners but it will bring a positive result when used with the XS / XS2.

Enjoy~

ryder. posted:

By the way, if the XS2 continues to amaze it may be worthwhile to explore the Hicap DR. From my understanding the Hicap DR may or may not please all Supernait 2 owners but it will bring a positive result when used with the XS / XS2.

Yeah, buy the Hicap and then you can upgrade to the SN2 you have just decided not to buy... In the Forum, we love to spend other people's many... 

Timo posted:
ryder. posted:

By the way, if the XS2 continues to amaze it may be worthwhile to explore the Hicap DR. From my understanding the Hicap DR may or may not please all Supernait 2 owners but it will bring a positive result when used with the XS / XS2.

Yeah, buy the Hicap and then you can upgrade to the SN2 you have just decided not to buy... In the Forum, we love to spend other people's many... 

Ups -- money, of course. Too little coffee today... 

Timo posted:
ryder. posted:

By the way, if the XS2 continues to amaze it may be worthwhile to explore the Hicap DR. From my understanding the Hicap DR may or may not please all Supernait 2 owners but it will bring a positive result when used with the XS / XS2.

Yeah, buy the Hicap and then you can upgrade to the SN2 you have just decided not to buy... In the Forum, we love to spend other people's many... 

If I am not mistaken the XS2 has received almost 100% votes of getting an improved sound with the Hicap DR. However, that's not the case with the Supernait 2. In other words, there isn't any need to look at the Supernait 2 as the XS2/Hicap DR can be the final system. However, it's all good if the XS2 is run as is. People can give suggestions on the forum but the person who is receiving them does not necessarily need to follow. :-)

I am really liking the XS2's sound and it's still very difficult to ignore      it makes my foot tap etc

I still find it very strange leaving the amp on all day but it does have the benefit of being ready straight away unlike my valve amps which need some time to 'warm up'

I kinda expected the Naim sound to be somewhat harsh, at least compared to the valve amps, but that's not what I am experiencing

I have a couple of questions:

1)  Why does Naim have the left speaker outputs where the right should be and visa versa?  It makes the speaker cable cross over

2)  If I like the XS2 sound how would the Supernait 2 compare ?

1) A throwback from the original Naim amps, which were for commercial use, and were put on a rack with the sockets facing outwards for ease of access.

2) Listen and decide for yourself, or prepare for the forum to confuse you with subjective opinions!

ryder. posted:

Interesting that you found the Supernait 2 to sound almost the same as the Nait XS2 when others reported a significant difference. If that's the case, I suppose I wouldn't like the Supernait 2 as I find the 202/200 to be a much poised and refined communicator than the Nait XS, in my system and to my ears.

I compared the XS2 with Flatcap to a bare SuperNait 2 and much preferred the latter - I bought it. For me, the difference was that the sound seemed much more coherent with the SN2, particularly the bass, along with more detail without sounding harsh in any way.  YMMV, but that's what I heard in my system over several months of listening. 

Nina posted:

 

1)  Why does Naim have the left speaker outputs where the right should be and visa versa?  It makes the speaker cable cross over

It's quite logical actually - if you stand behind the amp, the left channel is on the left-hand side of the amp; and the right-channel is on the right-hand side.

ryder. posted:
If I am not mistaken the XS2 has received almost 100% votes of getting an improved sound with the Hicap DR. However, that's not the case with the Supernait 2.

OK, it's 98% that actual owners of the SN2 says unequivocally the sound improves with the addition of the HiCap DR!

Nina posted:
Christopher_M posted

Have you paid for the XS2? I can only assume not if you are asking this question!

Oh yes the XS2 is fully paid for, I was just wondering if I would benefit from the Supernait 2

Thanks Nina. In which case I would seriously consider selling your pimped CD player and all associated cables and demming a Naim CD5XS player, a decent support and some Naca5 speaker wires with your Nait XS2, instead of worrying about a SN2. If nothing else, Naim is about synergy.

I write as someone whose life before Naim was the valve world of perpetual audio tweakery. I've found it far easier to buy into the Naim sound and put the hi-fi buffery behind me, just enjoy the power of music and live my life.

C.

Timo posted:

Or enter the wonderful world of streaming with an ND5XS -- good deals come up in the used market from time to time. I love my XS2/ND5XS combo -- though I have to admit I fancy an upgrade... 

I get it Timo but my point is about synergy in Nina's set, not platforms.

Christopher_M posted:
Timo posted:

Or enter the wonderful world of streaming with an ND5XS -- good deals come up in the used market from time to time. I love my XS2/ND5XS combo -- though I have to admit I fancy an upgrade... 

I get it Timo but my point is about synergy in Nina's set, not platforms.

Anything wrong with the synergy between XS2 and ND5XS? 

Timo posted:
Christopher_M posted:
Timo posted:

Or enter the wonderful world of streaming with an ND5XS -- good deals come up in the used market from time to time. I love my XS2/ND5XS combo -- though I have to admit I fancy an upgrade... 

I get it Timo but my point is about synergy in Nina's set, not platforms.

Anything wrong with the synergy between XS2 and ND5XS? 

Nothing at all but OP uses CDs.

Christopher_M posted:
Timo posted:
Christopher_M posted:
Timo posted:

Or enter the wonderful world of streaming with an ND5XS -- good deals come up in the used market from time to time. I love my XS2/ND5XS combo -- though I have to admit I fancy an upgrade... 

I get it Timo but my point is about synergy in Nina's set, not platforms.

Anything wrong with the synergy between XS2 and ND5XS? 

Nothing at all but OP uses CDs.

So do I.  And when I got an ND5 XS I continued to use my CDs.  I put them all into a neat little box measuring 100mm x 125mm x 200mm - it's called a NAS!

And there's great synergy between the XS 2 and the ND5 XS, almost as though they were designed to work together!

Nina,

I arrive good last, but here's my experience. I have owned SN1 three times and XS twice. These have been alternated with all sorts of experiments with pre-powers, the best of which I had was 282/Supercap/250.2.

To me, the XS's main attraction is a sort of greater than usual (in Naimworld) ability to articulate the inner voices, small details, making it musical and 'narrative'. On the other hand, it's undeniable that its bass weight is not telluric. The SN1 is more powerful, but to some people's ears it sounds too muscular and not agile enough. I have tried everything with and without almost any available PSU, and the SN1's voicing really gets close to the 282/200's. I am now using one, my third, and I love it. I openly confess that I am using 3rd party PSUs, but the suggestion of a HCDR is a good one. An old HC2 might make the SN1 a little 'big' in some areas.

Whatever Naim amp you'll have, you'll never get a perfect amp but, in the best of cases, the best compromise. The SN1 is a great compromise, and I like it more than the SN2 because the onboard DAC is rather underrated, and because its voice is the voice of older Naim, before the era of 'we want to please everyone on Earth', when they were proudly idiosyncratic and you tried inside the range until you found what was right for you. Now the Naim sound is becoming so right for everyone that I am losing interest in their latest production. And judging from the number of important staff members who have left, I am not the only one. But I have had literally tenths of Naim boxes, from Nait1 to 282/SC/250, five pairs of N-Sats and am using my second pair of S-400s. Don't discard the SN1.

End of the personal rant.

M

Max_B posted:

Nina,

I arrive good last, but here's my experience. I have owned SN1 three times and XS twice. These have been alternated with all sorts of experiments with pre-powers, the best of which I had was 282/Supercap/250.2.

To me, the XS's main attraction is a sort of greater than usual (in Naimworld) ability to articulate the inner voices, small details, making it musical and 'narrative'. On the other hand, it's undeniable that its bass weight is not telluric. The SN1 is more powerful, but to some people's ears it sounds too muscular and not agile enough. I have tried everything with and without almost any available PSU, and the SN1's voicing really gets close to the 282/200's. I am now using one, my third, and I love it. I openly confess that I am using 3rd party PSUs, but the suggestion of a HCDR is a good one. An old HC2 might make the SN1 a little 'big' in some areas.

Whatever Naim amp you'll have, you'll never get a perfect amp but, in the best of cases, the best compromise. The SN1 is a great compromise, and I like it more than the SN2 because the onboard DAC is rather underrated, and because its voice is the voice of older Naim, before the era of 'we want to please everyone on Earth', when they were proudly idiosyncratic and you tried inside the range until you found what was right for you. Now the Naim sound is becoming so right for everyone that I am losing interest in their latest production. And judging from the number of important staff members who have left, I am not the only one. But I have had literally tenths of Naim boxes, from Nait1 to 282/SC/250, five pairs of N-Sats and am using my second pair of S-400s. Don't discard the SN1.

End of the personal rant.

M

Interesting Max. It's always good to have a different opinion.

Supernait 1 > Supernait 2

Supernait 1 + 3rd Party PSU = NAC 282 / Supercap / NAP 250.2

May I ask if the Supercap is the original or DR?

badlands posted:
ryder. posted:
If I am not mistaken the XS2 has received almost 100% votes of getting an improved sound with the Hicap DR. However, that's not the case with the Supernait 2.

OK, it's 98% that actual owners of the SN2 says unequivocally the sound improves with the addition of the HiCap DR!

That's refreshing to know. I had the impression it's 70-80% of actual owners who prefer the Supernait 2 with the Hicap DR.

In my experience the SN2 is more focused, has more aplomb and will impress your brother in law more than the XS2. On the other hand the XS2 is possibly more nimble, softer and more forgiving with a wider range of recordings. I found the XS2 with a third party PSU upgrade to be closer to the SN2 than to the XS2 without PSU upgrade. After two weeks I ended up returning the PSU. I live in a two bedroom flat and just found the bass to be a bit overwhelming. My brother in law was impressed though.

Christopher_M posted:

Thanks Nina. In which case I would seriously consider selling your pimped CD player and all associated cables and demming a Naim CD5XS player, a decent support and some Naca5 speaker wires with your Nait XS2, instead of worrying about a SN2. If nothing else, Naim is about synergy.

I write as someone whose life before Naim was the valve world of perpetual audio tweakery. I've found it far easier to buy into the Naim sound and put the hi-fi buffery behind me, just enjoy the power of music and live my life.

C.

Thanks Christopher

So do you think the CD5XS would better my current transport and Audio Note Dac?  And in the same vain the NACA5 against my TQ Ultra Black and my 'fancy' interconnects against a standard Naim interconnect?  Certainly if I sold all my current cables, Dac and transport it would probably pay for the CD5XS

You seem to speak from experience as you had valve amps before

I've just been listening to Antonio Forcione Live!, on the Naim label, and was very impressed

The only reason I mentioned the SN2 is I didn't think I would enjoy the XS2 as much as I do and thought why not get the top integrated that Naim produce for just more of the same.  I will never buy a pre/power setup as I like one box

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