Used Supernait or new XS2

Nina posted:

As an aside can anyone tell me what Naim separates would be the nearest equivalent to the SN2? 

I bet as soon as I receive my SN2 Naim will bring out the SN3     I am guessing the SN2 is probably due for replacement as it's been out for some years now

282- 272/250 would be the closest equivalent in my opinion, the 200 is rated at 70 watts, 300VA, the SN2 is rated at 80 watts, the same as the 250, and I believe it has the same torrid transformer as the 250, both are rated at 400VA and look identical when I saw them side by side.

Just an aside, the 200/202 combo will run you a little under eight thousand US dollars, a SN2 with a HiCap DR will run you a little over eight thousand US dollars. That combo sounds tremendous and much more powerful than the 200DR.

Also, the SN2 is not very old, about four years old, so pretty young in Naim terms.

Just an FYI.

badlands posted:

282- 272/250 would be the closest equivalent in my opinion, the 200 is rated at 70 watts, 300VA, the SN2 is rated at 80 watts, the same as the 250, and I believe it has the same torrid transformer as the 250, both are rated at 400VA and look identical when I saw them side by side.

Just an aside, the 200/202 combo will run you a little under eight thousand US dollars, a SN2 with a HiCap DR will run you a little over eight thousand US dollars. That combo sounds tremendous and much more powerful than the 200DR.

Also, the SN2 is not very old, about four years old, so pretty young in Naim terms.

Just an FYI.

Great thanks Badlands...  in UK the 282 is £4k and the 250 £3.5k so if the SN2 comes anywhere close then it does seem very good value at £3K, maybe there is a saving as there is just one casing etc

Can anyone tell me if the SN2 has always had the DR circuit?

I thought at 4 years old Naim may be looking at updating the SN2, what is the usual update period for Naim amps?

 

 

Hungryhalibut posted:

We are in sunny Emsworth. You'll be most welcome to pop round for a listen and a cuppa. The system is in my profile. 

Thank you so much HH that's very kind of you 

I will wait until I get the SN2 in the system and see how I get on with it...

 

Nina posted:

Can I ask how you get on with your SN2 and what it replaced ?

Love it, and replaced an XS. Had it less than a month, and had the XS for 7 years. There was very little inherently "wrong" with the XS but circumstances were such that I had an opportunity to move up to what I consider to be my "forever" amp. It works so well with my Neat speakers that I cant imagine ever wanting to change anything.

robert_h posted:

Love it, and replaced an XS. Had it less than a month, and had the XS for 7 years. There was very little inherently "wrong" with the XS but circumstances were such that I had an opportunity to move up to what I consider to be my "forever" amp. It works so well with my Neat speakers that I cant imagine ever wanting to change anything.

Great thanks Robert

I am hoping that my SN2 will also be my "forever" amp, if not then I am quite happy to live with my XS2 

Are you able to describe what the SN2 does 'better' than the XS ? I won't be getting my SN2 until about the 12th/13th September

Thanks also for confirming the SN2 has always had the DR circuit as I was concerned that my SN2 wouldn't have it..

badlands posted:
Nina posted:

As an aside can anyone tell me what Naim separates would be the nearest equivalent to the SN2? 

I bet as soon as I receive my SN2 Naim will bring out the SN3     I am guessing the SN2 is probably due for replacement as it's been out for some years now

282- 272/250 would be the closest equivalent in my opinion, the 200 is rated at 70 watts, 300VA, the SN2 is rated at 80 watts, the same as the 250, and I believe it has the same torrid transformer as the 250, both are rated at 400VA and look identical when I saw them side by side.

Just an aside, the 200/202 combo will run you a little under eight thousand US dollars, a SN2 with a HiCap DR will run you a little over eight thousand US dollars. That combo sounds tremendous and much more powerful than the 200DR.

Also, the SN2 is not very old, about four years old, so pretty young in Naim terms.

Just an FYI.

Many people believe that the 202 / 200DR is the nearest equivalent to the SN2 and that the 282 / 200 is a significant step up; and most people believe that 282 / HiCapDR / 250DR is a big step up.  All these four systems have different acoustic  presentation, so some people prefer one, some prefer another.  You need to listen to them yourself, as no one can describe the sound accurately enough for you to tell what characteristics you'll prefer without the listening test.

The 250.2 is different again, and the 250DR is a big improvement on the previous amp.

Don't judge specifically by the power output or by the size of the transformer.  The separates have a significant advantage in separating the sensitive preamp circuitry form the high voltages and high currents on the power amp; in the integrated amps these negatively affect the preamp circuits.  This is why the high end Naim system are all separate pre - power combinations.

Huge posted:

Many people believe that the 202 / 200DR is the nearest equivalent to the SN2 and that the 282 / 200 is a significant step up; and most people believe that 282 / HiCapDR / 250DR is a big step up.  All these four systems have different acoustic  presentation, so some people prefer one, some prefer another.  You need to listen to them yourself, as no one can describe the sound accurately enough for you to tell what characteristics you'll prefer without the listening test.

The 250.2 is different again, and the 250DR is a big improvement on the previous amp.

Don't judge specifically by the power output or by the size of the transformer.  The separates have a significant advantage in separating the sensitive preamp circuitry form the high voltages and high currents on the power amp; in the integrated amps these negatively affect the preamp circuits.  This is why the high end Naim system are all separate pre - power combinations.

That makes complete sense to me Huge

I am willing to accept a bit of compromise with the SN2 as I only want an integrated amp

Nina posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:

We are in sunny Emsworth. You'll be most welcome to pop round for a listen and a cuppa. The system is in my profile. 

Thank you so much HH that's very kind of you 

I will wait until I get the SN2 in the system and see how I get on with it...

 

I'm not sure what source you have, but you may find hearing the 272/250 direction interesting before deciding on the SN2. 

robert_h posted:

Greater sense of instrument separation; it's like you can follow each melodic line more easily. Bass more controlled. Honestly I cant fault it. Vice-like grip over these Neats.

Super thanks Robert

I can't wait to get the SN2 and if it's anything like the XS2 but 'more so' then I am in for a real treat I think..

Hungryhalibut posted:
Nina posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:

We are in sunny Emsworth. You'll be most welcome to pop round for a listen and a cuppa. The system is in my profile. 

Thank you so much HH that's very kind of you 

I will wait until I get the SN2 in the system and see how I get on with it...

 

I'm not sure what source you have, but you may find hearing the 272/250 direction interesting before deciding on the SN2. 

Oh yes, the 272 / 250DR is definitely worth listening to if you're prepared to move into streaming; definitely a really good 2 box source and amp system.

Fewer limitations than an integrated amp.  I upgraded to a 272 from a Nait XS, much more than a single step upgrade.

Hungryhalibut posted:
Nina posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:

We are in sunny Emsworth. You'll be most welcome to pop round for a listen and a cuppa. The system is in my profile. 

Thank you so much HH that's very kind of you 

I will wait until I get the SN2 in the system and see how I get on with it...

 

I'm not sure what source you have, but you may find hearing the 272/250 direction interesting before deciding on the SN2. 

+1. I think even 272+200 is worth considering, I like the 200 way more than the SN2.

Adam Zielinski posted:

CD5XS is a fine player on it's own and would be a good match to XS2. 
SN2 will 'demand' a higher quality source I'm afraid - CDX2 is a natural partner here.

I've been trough boths players....

Thanks for the info Adam 

Personally, I would start with a CD5XS, which is reasonably priced in the s/h market. And if you feel like another upgrade, get a Naim DAC (also competitively priced when bought s/h) or a Chord Hugo (Hugo 1 currently "floods" the s/h market because of the  recent release of Hugo 2).

Personally I'd try both amps when you have the sn2, you also have other variables to play with, tq vs NACA and rega Vs lv speakers wasn't it? You can use any source you like with an sn2, my streamer is a DIY pc via USB into dacv1 not an nd5xs and it still sounds fantastic to me. Cd player is an old Sony into same DAC, same result. My upgrade in amp hasn't to my ears exposed any weakness in the sources.

Nina posted:

If I purchased a used CDX2 would that still suit the SN2 ok do you think ?

Well, this certainly seems like a very fine system you're cooking up here Nina.

My dream system actually.

I don't think you will be disappointed, as it is quite a step up from the XS range.

 

You've got to spend a lot of dosh to be Naim's top customer, but I think you may take the prize for fastest growing. ;-) 

I think both the XS2 and SN2 have will have the ability to reveal the difference between a CD5 XS and a CDX2, but I don't buy into the idea that the CD5 XS will be outclassed somehow by the SN2, I mean, it's not going to sound worse than with an XS2, not at this level of source.  If the source was completely inadequate both amps would easily reveal that.   The better source you can obtain, new, or used, the better either amp will be.   It's probably true that the SN2 will reveal more benefits when it comes to source improvements, but it counts for both. 

 

 

I did audition the CD5XS on both a SN1+Hicap DR and SN2, and I did not have the impression that the CD player was outclassed. It will leave you with some cash for e.g. a Dac or Hicap.

But CDX2 is the natural choice and if you decide to stay on the SN level (which I doubt given your acute upgraditis) the most balanced choice.

Personally, I would make a decision based on age / price / future plans.

The CDX2 and CD5XS are quite different

If CDX I'd look into earlier preloved samples, they are extremely expensive new

Same for CD5XS which I would not use as transport only into a dac, making much of the player contain wasted electronics not in use.

Using CD5 any variant (except 5i) I'd choose a separate psu to upgrade, such as Flatcap or Hicap maybe third party

robert_h posted:

Personally I'd try both amps when you have the sn2, you also have other variables to play with, tq vs NACA and rega Vs lv speakers wasn't it? You can use any source you like with an sn2, my streamer is a DIY pc via USB into dacv1 not an nd5xs and it still sounds fantastic to me. Cd player is an old Sony into same DAC, same result. My upgrade in amp hasn't to my ears exposed any weakness in the sources.

Thanks for the advice Robert

I do indeed have other variables to play with before deciding whether to look at the cd player.  My current transport and dac sound very good indeed with the XS2 so I am hoping the SN2 will be the same and not expose any weakness in my source

SongStream posted:

You've got to spend a lot of dosh to be Naim's top customer, but I think you may take the prize for fastest growing. ;-) 

I think both the XS2 and SN2 have will have the ability to reveal the difference between a CD5 XS and a CDX2, but I don't buy into the idea that the CD5 XS will be outclassed somehow by the SN2, I mean, it's not going to sound worse than with an XS2, not at this level of source.  If the source was completely inadequate both amps would easily reveal that.   The better source you can obtain, new, or used, the better either amp will be.   It's probably true that the SN2 will reveal more benefits when it comes to source improvements, but it counts for both. 

 

 

You might be right there SongStream, however it's only because I have been so impressed with the XS2 that I've got a SN2 coming to try

Nina posted:
SongStream posted:

You've got to spend a lot of dosh to be Naim's top customer, but I think you may take the prize for fastest growing. ;-) 

I think both the XS2 and SN2 have will have the ability to reveal the difference between a CD5 XS and a CDX2, but I don't buy into the idea that the CD5 XS will be outclassed somehow by the SN2, I mean, it's not going to sound worse than with an XS2, not at this level of source.  If the source was completely inadequate both amps would easily reveal that.   The better source you can obtain, new, or used, the better either amp will be.   It's probably true that the SN2 will reveal more benefits when it comes to source improvements, but it counts for both. 

 

 

You might be right there SongStream, however it's only because I have been so impressed with the XS2 that I've got a SN2 coming to try

And why not.  I am interested to hear about how you find it.  I think the SN2 is absolutely great, but of a different league, in terms of both performance and price tag, to the amp it replaced for me.  Hopefully you'll find it builds on the qualities of the XS2 significantly also.

The SN2 arrived today and is now in the system

First listen really worried me as it sounded a bit harsh and brittle and I thought I'd made a big mistake, but I think it just needed to warm up a bit as it is sounding much nicer now...phew 

I don't remember the XS2 sounding harsh on first listen though

The SN2 is now making me smile which is always a good sign   

I found that.  From brand new, just unpacked and set up, it was good, but I was a little underwhelmed.  It's hard to recall now, but I would say that after an hour, possibly less, something changed.  Over time, i.e a few weeks, it seemed to gradually weight up in the mid-band and sound even more sweet.  There's a lot of talk about run-in, but while it seemed to improve over a few weeks, the biggest leap was from the first few minutes, to a couple of hours later.

Nina posted:

The SN2 arrived today and is now in the system

First listen really worried me as it sounded a bit harsh and brittle and I thought I'd made a big mistake, but I think it just needed to warm up a bit as it is sounding much nicer now...phew 

I don't remember the XS2 sounding harsh on first listen though

The SN2 is now making me smile which is always a good sign   

Nina - a brand new SN2 will take several weeks before it sounds its best. It will sound harsh, annoying at times at first. There will be a day when in desparation you will try to chuck out through a window. And then one day it will just click. What follows then is a joy to behold.

I've been through quite a few Naim amps (SuperUniti, SuperNait 2, UnitiQute2, NAP 250, NAP 250DR, NAP300DR) and they all followed the same pattern when breaking in / warming up. And amazingly none of them went flying - they are all with us, being used daily.

So - please be patient. You are worth it 

Well my SN2 is an ex demo unit so I was not expecting it to need any running in as such

I think maybe just the fact it's been switched off for a week or so it needed a bit of warming up again..  sounds amazing now though.  Probably the first amp that has literally made me smile, anyone else experienced this or am I going mad ?  

Nina posted:

Well my SN2 is an ex demo unit so I was not expecting it to need any running in as such

I think maybe just the fact it's been switched off for a week or so it needed a bit of warming up again..  sounds amazing now though.  Probably the first amp that has literally made me smile, anyone else experienced this or am I going mad ?  

No, you're not. My first experience with Naim was just like that: SN1 and Martin Logan Motion 40 - went to the dealer to audition Sugden and Simaudio, and dealer said "is it ok if we set up a couple of extra systems?". One was the Naim. I smiled and I was hooked. I didn't click with the SN2 in the end (owned one for a while) but it was because it was too much of an amp (and speakers) for my room. But of all my setups, nothing made Joe Cocker's "Jamaica say you will" and Genesis' "the Lamb lies down on Broadway" sound better than the SN2 + ML.

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