Which 4K TV?

Ravenswood10 posted:

I don't think you'll have long as it looks as if Panasonic, Sony and Samsung are doing more with OLED. Sony are said to be addressing brightness which is a current OLED weakness - or so we're told!

There are no brightness problems with the current LG oleds, no matter what you read. I've reduced the brightness, as it was far too intense. I have as pure white as can be expected from a screen and my colour temp is a good neutral, unlike most of the people on av forums (and reviewers) who insist on a far too warm temp, making whites yellow and skin tones all looking like David Dickinson. Of course, they'll try to convince you that all movies should be shown with a magical standard "warm" appearance, but they don't have a clue. Sheep.

Panasonic and especially Sony have had their day. They're no longer the leaders in the industry. LG have come from nowhere and produce stunning tvs with superb quality control. My tv has no banding, no dead/stuck pixels, no colour casts in the whites and somehow they've made a down-pointing tiny built-in speaker design actually sound very good. Well done LG. Oppo is another company to have risen to the top. 

Ravenswood10 posted:
Finkfan posted:

I had heard that the pioneer tv engineers went across to Panasonic, any truth in that? 

That's what I heard too which is why the last Panasonic Plasmas were so good. They built a brand new factory to support plasma panel manufacture only to close it down not long after - the panels were just not economic enough to produce.

I heard that Panasonic took some engineers but Pioneer  kept hold of the tech patents that gave their screens the edge on the competition. 

 

count.d posted:
Ravenswood10 posted:

I don't think you'll have long as it looks as if Panasonic, Sony and Samsung are doing more with OLED. Sony are said to be addressing brightness which is a current OLED weakness - or so we're told!

There are no brightness problems with the current LG oleds, no matter what you read. I've reduced the brightness, as it was far too intense. I have as pure white as can be expected from a screen and my colour temp is a good neutral, unlike most of the people on av forums (and reviewers) who insist on a far too warm temp, making whites yellow and skin tones all looking like David Dickinson. Of course, they'll try to convince you that all movies should be shown with a magical standard "warm" appearance, but they don't have a clue. Sheep.

Panasonic and especially Sony have had their day. They're no longer the leaders in the industry. LG have come from nowhere and produce stunning tvs with superb quality control. My tv has no banding, no dead/stuck pixels, no colour casts in the whites and somehow they've made a down-pointing tiny built-in speaker design actually sound very good. Well done LG. Oppo is another company to have risen to the top. 

LG do seem to be right at the top the game now. Are you using the new Oppo 203 UHD player with yours? It's getting very good reviews. 

rackkit posted:
count.d posted:
Ravenswood10 posted:

I don't think you'll have long as it looks as if Panasonic, Sony and Samsung are doing more with OLED. Sony are said to be addressing brightness which is a current OLED weakness - or so we're told!

There are no brightness problems with the current LG oleds, no matter what you read. I've reduced the brightness, as it was far too intense. I have as pure white as can be expected from a screen and my colour temp is a good neutral, unlike most of the people on av forums (and reviewers) who insist on a far too warm temp, making whites yellow and skin tones all looking like David Dickinson. Of course, they'll try to convince you that all movies should be shown with a magical standard "warm" appearance, but they don't have a clue. Sheep.

Panasonic and especially Sony have had their day. They're no longer the leaders in the industry. LG have come from nowhere and produce stunning tvs with superb quality control. My tv has no banding, no dead/stuck pixels, no colour casts in the whites and somehow they've made a down-pointing tiny built-in speaker design actually sound very good. Well done LG. Oppo is another company to have risen to the top. 

LG do seem to be right at the top the game now. Are you using the new Oppo 203 UHD player with yours? It's getting very good reviews. 

No Rackkit, not yet. There's no 4K discs out yet, so I'd be wasting my money atm. I have seen the results from the 203 and it appears to be very good.

Bought some Assos cycling gear instead and a new helmet. Better than watching The Revenant every night.

Last time I checked there were more than few with several new releases over the next month or so. Slow build but it was the same with DVD and Bluray. The same is also true of 4K TV unless you watch sport and want yo pay through the nose for it. I still think it's funny that the BBC still broadcasts reguional news in SD. Perhaps they'll skip the whole lot and go for 8K

OLED is without doubt very good but at present is very expensive. I recently bought a 65" Sony for the same price as a 55" LG OLED. The 65" OLED was out at reach at more than 1K more than the Sony.

Admittedly not at home, but side by side in John Lewis, I could tell very little difference between the images on the two TV's.

Ravenswood10 posted:

Last time I checked there were more than few with several new releases over the next month or so. Slow build but it was the same with DVD and Bluray. The same is also true of 4K TV unless you watch sport and want yo pay through the nose for it. I still think it's funny that the BBC still broadcasts reguional news in SD. Perhaps they'll skip the whole lot and go for 8K

BBC rightly has to broadcast for the lowest common denominator, and as it i only about 10 years since HD became mainstream on new TV, with an average TV life of maybe 10 years it will be a few years yet before it is reasonable to assume that virtually everyone can receive HD and so switch off SD. 'Twas the same with the change from 405 to 625 line, also digital but to a much lesser extent as a supplementary box could be used to ennable it on older TVs.

Always a chicken and egg with equipment vs content, but I for one don't see the point in equipment before significant available content, if only because equipment prices will continue to fall relatively rapidly as content and take-up increases, and in a couple of years prices will be very considerably cheaper than now, while on the meantime there will have been little benefit from having the 4k machine. But that's just my way of viewing it (pun intended!).This principle doesn't necessarily hold with hifi as audio is different because even a small amount of content could be enjoyed for considerably longer than would be a small amount of video content.

Some hints on getting the best picture quality from your TV -

Samsung TV picture settings - In the picture settings menu select Standard mode - this does a decent job of setting the brightness. Turn off Dynamic Contrast, as it tends to reduce detail in the darker parts of the picture. Next, reduce Auto Motion Plus (ie motion compensation) – it’s best to use a custom setting so nudge Judder Reduction to five and Blur Reduction to eight. Finally, set the Colour Space to ‘native’ and Flesh Tone to zero.

LG TV picture settings -  First, select Standard mode under picture settings and turn off Dynamic Contrast. Next, reduce TruMotion (ie motion compensation) via custom mode – set De-judder to five and De-blur to eight. LG TVs tend to have slightly over-emphasised colours, so put Dynamic Colour to medium or low to compensate (you can keep the Colour Gamut as ‘wide’).

Panasonic TV picture settings  - Select Normal mode - there are different settings for basic and high-end models but this adequately sets the brightness on both. Turn off Dynamic Contrast and Adaptive Backlight as it can cause brightness levels to fluctuate erratically. Reduce the Intelligent Frame Creation motion compensation tool to mid or low. Colours on Panasonic’s can often appear overly yellow, so go into the advanced colour settings (temperature or tint) and increase the Red slightly – just a tweak so it looks comfortable to your eye.

Sony TV picture settings  - Sony has different menus and settings for its high-end and basic TVs but select Standard mode on either to set the brightness accurately. Switch off Dynamic Contrast and Adaptive Backlight . Leave Motionflow on as it does a good job of handling on-screen motion. Colours on Sony TVs can seem vibrant to the point of gaudy, so put Live Colour to‘low’. Just as with Panasonic, everything can look a bit yellowy at times, so to compensate raise the Red tint in the advanced colour settings menu.

I always had my projectors and displays set up by an ISF professional, but then I found I'd end up tweaking the settings to suit my own taste. If you really want the ultimate picture quality then invest in a video processor such as a Lumagen. 

I've tried the 'native' colour space setting on a low end Samsung we have and it's aweful. Turns skin colour very red and all colours turn luminous. Only 'auto' is watchable. I'm sure on more expensive screens that isn't the case. When my office is finished I'm going to try and sneak the Pana plasma in there for now  

My two Panasonic plasmas seemed fine colour balance and saturation. My LG LED needed considerable reduction of saturation to be near natural, though overall colour balance seemed reasonable. But these are all just subjective for acceptability, not attempting to calibrate them. I can't remember how I may have tweaked the contrast on any, while brightness requirement depends on room brightness anyway.

Finkfan, is your country setting correct? (TV manufacturers might have preconceptions of native' skin tones...)

Mike-B posted:
...I have however just replaced a 10 y.o. 32inch flatscreen with a 4K 43inch,   but the TV is not 11 inch's bigger,  with the very narrow screen edges these days it has a bigger screen but only slightly bigger (wider) than the old model & most pleasing & why i chose this one is it still stands nice & discreetly on the TV cabinet.

Out of interest @Mike-B, which brand did you buy?

There's a 43" LG model and a 40" Panasonic model which might suit me.

I can't bring myself to go to 49" and I'm not wall-mounting the TV.

nickpeacock posted:
Mike-B posted:
...I have however just replaced a 10 y.o. 32inch flatscreen with a 4K 43inch,

Out of interest @Mike-B, which brand did you buy?   There's a 43" LG model and a 40" Panasonic model which might suit me.   I can't bring myself to go to 49" and I'm not wall-mounting the TV.

Hi Nick,  Sony KD43XD830.     I chose Sony for   1:  Comparing Sony, Panasonic & LG 4K models side by side in the store, the Sony picture was better.  2: The Sony cable mngt was neater    3: I have Sony Blue Ray & PVR & the new TV can link with them all & no need for a remote for each.      I am also anti wall mount.

I would suggest you do a 'blind' viewing comparison! If you are going to have only 40" I doubt you will notice much difference, Having said that, 576i on a 55" screen is not the best of viewing experiences. I purchased a 55" Sony with built in PlaystationNow. The games are great at that size! I have a Netflix 4k subscription, and watching in 4k really is a benefit in nature documentaries, as for films and sports they are just as enjoyable in 1080i. Do you need to read the detail on a spectators scarf when watching football? 

I will update the Forum as soon as a have a response from LG but my wonderful new OLED TV has developed a stuck pixel 2/3 down the screen and it's bright green and only after 2 months! Evedently LG have some policy re 8 dead pixels for return but are somewhat more flexible with stuck pixels. We'll have to see - it is distracting expecially in dark scenes against those deep blacks.

My 13 year old daughter came home yesterday and spotted the flaw without me pointing it out. First ever TV with this issue so not best pleased. Let's see how LG customer service compares to Naim or not! If they won't play ball this could well be my first and last LG purchase.

Ravenswood10 posted:

I will update the Forum as soon as a have a response from LG but my wonderful new OLED TV has developed a stuck pixel 2/3 down the screen and it's bright green and only after 2 months! Evedently LG have some policy re 8 dead pixels for return but are somewhat more flexible with stuck pixels. We'll have to see - it is distracting expecially in dark scenes against those deep blacks.

My 13 year old daughter came home yesterday and spotted the flaw without me pointing it out. First ever TV with this issue so not best pleased. Let's see how LG customer service compares to Naim or not! If they won't play ball this could well be my first and last LG purchase.

All tvs can develop stuck/dead pixels. Stuck pixel can solve itself again. I doubt LG will do something about 1 pixel though, or any other tv company.

Yes but not when they're less than 2 months old. The green pixel of death has been absent for the past couple of days which is just as well as LG has yet to reply. I've had 4 plasmas over the years and two LCDs elsewhere in the house and none developed pixel issues. Still at least the Oppo UDP 203s beta firmware update has resolved a number of issues. The joy of being an early adopter

That's it !

After two faulty Sony TV's I've bitten the bullet, coughed up the extra money and ordered a 65" LG OLED. I hope they are as good as people say they are !

Thank goodness I bought from John Lewis who have made the return process as painless as possible.

Not a good experience with Sony. My LG 55 inch has been excellent over the past couple of months I've had it. Slight wobble one month in with a bright green pixel which persisted 5 seconds even after the set was switched off but this seems to have rectified itself. LG customer services are keeping the report open should the green pixel of death reappear.

Love it with my Oppo 105D and 203 UHD players. To be honest on standard blue ray the 105 does an exellent job upscaling to 4K - at least to these  eyes and to be honest I've not been that impressed with some of the HDR discs - something a little artificial about them I feel.

Sony not good, but JL have dealt with it well so no worries, these things happen. The one I got yesterday was JL's last so I've kind of had my hand forced to look at something else.

I was originally convinced myself that rather than get a 55" OLED I'd benefit from the 65" Sony for roughly the same cost. 

Yes. Very pleased. I'm having it professionally calibrated on Friday. I've been mainly watching Sky this weekend. I watched about 10 minutes of The Revenant on 4K blu ray using an Oppo UDP203 just to check everything was working and it looked stunning.

well worth having it calibrated - although there are those who will say it's a waste of time. All in the eye of the beholder I say! Grayscale did mine as they did my Panasonic VT Plasma - incredible results and much better than playing around with those set-up discs.

 

 

I checked with the guy doing mine. He said around 30 hours use prior to calibration would be ok. I think I've done that this weekend . The LG OLED and Oppo are the first time I've really bought a high end TV and Blu Ray player and jolly impressed am I.

Ian,

Just to be clear, you ended up with an LG 65" OLED ? (it was only the Sony's that gave you some trouble and JL sorted you out with the 65" LG ?)

No doubt these 65" OLED LG's come in various guises ?

And Oppo are about to bring out a new 205 - which will be slightly different to the new 203 ? so worth waiting for ?

My Pioneer Kuro is still looking good, but.......................it's about time to change !

After two faulty Sony's, I decided to try the LG OLED instead and paid the price difference. It wasn't a free upgrade if that is what you're asking Don ?

As I understand, the main difference between the Oppo 203 and 205 will be in the DAC/sound processing capabilities not picture processing. If you plan to use the full music capabilities as a universal player then the 205 may be the one to go for. If your main usage will just be watching films, the 203 is probably adequate.

That said, my understanding may be wrong...

 

Don Atkinson posted:

Ian,

Just to be clear, you ended up with an LG 65" OLED ? (it was only the Sony's that gave you some trouble and JL sorted you out with the 65" LG ?)

No doubt these 65" OLED LG's come in various guises ?

And Oppo are about to bring out a new 205 - which will be slightly different to the new 203 ? so worth waiting for ?

My Pioneer Kuro is still looking good, but.......................it's about time to change !

I can thoroughly recommend the 203, Don. Very pleased with mine.

Ravenswood10 posted:

well worth having it calibrated - although there are those who will say it's a waste of time. All in the eye of the beholder I say! Grayscale did mine as they did my Panasonic VT Plasma - incredible results and much better than playing around with those set-up discs.

 

 

It's not a case of some people saying it's a waste of time due to the picture being in the eye of the beholder, it's the fact that some people possess the skill to calibrate it without outside debatable advice. From my perspective, I've looked at 10's, 100's or 1,000's of photography images a day, for 30 years. They are scrutinised for contrast, colour balance, etc.. and my eyes have been subconsciously trained to see the levels. This can be a handicap, as I'm not really 100% happy with any of the tv offerings. This is clearly not limited to me as a photographer, as many of my clients choose and/or comment on images in the same way as I feel without my opinion and there does tend to be a pattern with which clients I respect. As I've already said earlier, I've seen many professionally calibrated tvs and they look rubbish, not due to the tv limitations, but the settings. I've also read so much rubbish on the net.  The LG factory settings ISF Expert (Dark Room) are very good and only need a few tweaks on each input to optimise the picture. The usual gimmicky settings are nearly all switched off.

When your professional calibrater has done their job, take a look at various films, BBC news, ITV News, etc.... and every broadcast has it's own characteristic. Watch a quiz show and they're invariably ridiculously oversaturated and warm.  If someone decides on professional calibration, enjoy the tv and hopefully enjoy the calibration, but don't be smug.

Anyway, the above paragraphs won't change anyone.

Count D, I'm certainly not being smug about calibration. I don't possess your eye for detail or skills with images. Having spent a significant chunk of money on a new TV I'd like some help and advice to get it operating at its optimum in my home environment. To that end, the choice to have a professional calibration is mine. I've never had one done before and am hoping that I'm pleased with the results. If not, the world won't end, I've lost a bit of money and the ISF Expert (Dark Room) mode will still be there.

That's my understanding too - that and a better power supply. I kept my 105 Darbee for this reason as I use it to spin the odd CD which it manages very well indeed. It is also a half competent streamer though obviously not in the same league as my NDS.

The 203 is used for UHD with the 105 used for std blue ray. To these eyes there's little to distinguish the 203 from the 105 in this camp and with a number of used 105 appearing on a certain auction site I'd be tempted to plump for one of these if I didnt already have one - formidable machines especially allied to the LGS processing abilities.

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