Witch hat din-xlr cables for nap500

I need to get new din/xlr cables for the nap500. 

Don'twant to do superlumina yet (and not doing anything else fancy/expensive - will do superlumina eceneventu).

Are the witch hat ones comparable in quality to standard naim ones? Anyone with direct experience?

Original Post

Can't speak to the Witch Hat interconnects, but I did demo their speaker cable and was not impressed.  NACA5 was superior in every way, the Witch Hat cable was boring and dull by comparison.  I lost all interest in the rest of their product line.  

The stock lead supplied with the NAP500 is not bad.  I compared it to several versions of Chord Sarum's and found it held its own, but was not as detailed.  If you're looking to improve the sound, I'd look at what Chord is offering in their lineup.  

I bought some of their Phantom speaker cable and again was very pleased with it, both sonicly & flexibility. To me they represent good value for money.

Moderated Post:  NFG, I have edited.  Please note forum rules - specifically that discussion of unauthorised modifications, which includes non-Naim "SNAICs" and Burndy cables, is strictly forbidden.

I have heard some of what  Witch Hat Audio can do where amps are concerned and no doubt there are some very talented techs at that company and I have heard great things about their cables I would however stick with stock cables unless of course they are broken in which case try them out I seem to remember a few people on here using them with 300 amps.

MangoMonkey posted:

I need to get new din/xlr cables for the nap500. 

Don'twant to do superlumina yet (and not doing anything else fancy/expensive - will do superlumina eceneventu).

Are the witch hat ones comparable in quality to standard naim ones? Anyone with direct experience?

 

If you're set on spending [£3,275] on super lumina XLRs [eventually?] then why not simply live with the standard naim supplied XLRs until such time you can afford them... (?)  but don't forget to compare them to SL's nemesis cable [or should that be naimesis?]  the Chord Sarum T DIN-XLR [£2,100] which peoples seem to prefer if they really take the trouble to demo vs the SL.

Debs

 

Between a 272/555 and a 300DR I use custom made interconnects using Mogami W2497, Preh DINs and Neutrik XLPs.
In my opinion, they are a considerable upgrade on the standard cables (and really cheap to make as well).

If you can't solder yourself, get someone to do it for you - I'm sure there are people you way who'll make them up for a quite modest fee.

I would just get the original Naim DIN/XLR cables.

You're not going to get the benefit of your 500 by using third party cables.

It seems a pity to me to buy a 500 DR only to undermine the sound by using non-naim cables in this critical place.

I've tried a few non-naim ones and went back to the Naim stock DIN/XLR.

I had a similar experience to Chris Bell. 

 

I've tried a few  - and I don't want to name and shame.

I found the same as our moderator did.

"They were all too smooth - to a fault - a degree of tension and leading edge was gone. The music just wasn't so immediate."

Can't comment on the Chord offerings for DIN/XLR, but I can't be bothered to try anymore.

I appreciate that people like to fine tune their systems and interconnects and speaker cables are a way of trying 

Although I have not gone real high end I had Chord Signature Tuned Aray interconnects including din - xlr but when I did the take them out and see if you miss them test I didn’t. 

If you have the money it’s yours to spend the way you choose but if like me  you have a relatively strict budget and you haven’t maxed your system then spend your money there. 

No cable will beat a pre a power or a psu upgrade. 

analogmusic posted:

I would just get the original Naim DIN/XLR cables.

You're not going to get the benefit of your 500 by using third party cables.

It seems a pity to me to buy a 500 DR only to undermine the sound by using non-naim cables in this critical place.

I've tried a few non-naim ones and went back to the Naim stock DIN/XLR.

I had a similar experience to Chris Bell. 

 

So, on the basis of "I've tried a few non-naim ones and went back to the Naim stock DIN/XLR.", you state that "You're not going to get the benefit of your 500 by using third party cables."

A bit like "Some men are rapists, therefore all men are rapists."


Your logic doesn't hold.

 

Chris Dolan posted:

What I really don’t understand is that in my system when I had extended home trials of various cables I found the Super Lumina to be disappointingly constrained and homogeneous. Pleasant enough but uninspiring and not really involving.  Strange. 

In their defence, when I compared them with stock, with SSA and then again with Music, I thought they were certainly better than the standard cables but, as you say, just pleasant, nothing more.  Had the cost been a few hundred, they'd be fine and you'd probably get some but at over £3K, I just don't think they offer vfm. 

Chris Dolan posted:

What I really don’t understand is that in my system when I had extended home trials of various cables I found the Super Lumina to be disappointingly constrained and homogeneous. Pleasant enough but uninspiring and not really involving.  Strange. 

Me too.

Huge posted:
analogmusic posted:

I would just get the original Naim DIN/XLR cables.

You're not going to get the benefit of your 500 by using third party cables.

It seems a pity to me to buy a 500 DR only to undermine the sound by using non-naim cables in this critical place.

I've tried a few non-naim ones and went back to the Naim stock DIN/XLR.

I had a similar experience to Chris Bell. 

 

So, on the basis of "I've tried a few non-naim ones and went back to the Naim stock DIN/XLR.", you state that "You're not going to get the benefit of your 500 by using third party cables."

A bit like "Some men are rapists, therefore all men are rapists."


Your logic doesn't hold.

 

Huge,

Have you made up a set of Din XLRs? If so, I'd be interested to know how you found them in comparison to the standard items.

I have 4 sets (if you include the Naim originals, which I didn't make!).

To my ears (with my speakers, in my room!) I found the Mogami W2497 to be the best cable between the 272/555 and 300DR.
To be fair I haven't compared them to SL or Chord Sarum (any variant) or Music.


I posted the relevant links above.

Chris Dolan posted:

What I really don’t understand is that in my system when I had extended home trials of various cables I found the Super Lumina to be disappointingly constrained and homogeneous. Pleasant enough but uninspiring and not really involving.  Strange. 

Superlumina cables can take at least 200 hours of playing time to run in.

Once they are

But I do understand, it's a personal choice, depending on room, system, speakers and that huge variable - personal perception.

 

 

Huge posted:
 

 

So, on the basis of "I've tried a few non-naim ones and went back to the Naim stock DIN/XLR.", you state that "You're not going to get the benefit of your 500 by using third party cables."

A bit like "Some men are rapists, therefore all men are rapists."


Your logic doesn't hold.

 

Agreed, but we seem to be going back to the concept of N.I.P

Naim intended performance.

That's what I want.

If others want to change the performance characteristics of their Naim kit, hey ho - feel free to do  what pleases your ears

I haven't got the funds, money, time to check out each DIN/XLR cable, I just choose to use the cables Naim have used to design the amplifiers after being disappointed a number of times.

These include a number of SNAIC cables and other stuff we are not allowed to discuss, so that's my experience and opinion.

 

analogmusic posted:

<snip>

Agreed, but we seem to be going back to the concept of N.I.P

Naim intended performance.

That's what I want.

 <snip>

But N.I.P. is a moving target.

The Lavender is supplied with the CD5Si all the way to the NDS.  Do they all have the same N.I.P.?

The DIN to XLR is supplied with the 300 and the 500 (and the same construction is used for the 250, just with 1 wire not connected), do these all have the same N.I.P.?

All systems are a balance of sound that's an engineering compromise with component altering the sound in a different way, and this applies to Naim as much as any other manufacturer.  So, if N.I.P. covers a range of balances, and another cable shifts that balance a little, but still stays within the bounding limits of one Naim system or another, is that not still N.I.P.?

What about changing speakers?  They have such a dramatic effect on the balance of the sound; surely to remain with the limits of N.I.P. we must use Naim speakers, otherwise we'll be completely outside of the limits of N.I.P..  If we can change speakers to those of another manufacturer and remain within N.I.P. than surely we can change to a different manufacturer's CD player (or amp...   or cables!).

 

P.S. I understand the principle, I just think your expression of your approach is far too dogmatic.

 

But N.I.P. is a moving target.

The Lavender is supplied with the CD5Si all the way to the NDS.  Do they all have the same N.I.P.?

Yes

The DIN to XLR is supplied with the 300 and the 500 (and the same construction is used for the 250, just with 1 wire not connected), do these all have the same N.I.P.?

Yes

 

All systems are a balance of sound that's an engineering compromise with component altering the sound in a different way, and this applies to Naim as much as any other manufacturer.  So, if N.I.P. covers a range of balances, and another cable shifts that balance a little, but still stays within the bounding limits of one Naim system or another, is that not still N.I.P.?

No, it is not. Please read the comments I posted above about loss of tension and leading edge, and a certain softness to the sound. It is why I understand that Naim never made a Hi-line DIN/XLR.

What about changing speakers?  They have such a dramatic effect on the balance of the sound; surely to remain with the limits of N.I.P. we must use Naim speakers, otherwise we'll be completely outside of the limits of N.I.P..  If we can change speakers to those of another manufacturer and remain within N.I.P. than surely we can change to a different manufacturer's CD player (or amp...   or cables!).

that's debatable, some speakers do in fact cloak and choke the Naim intended performance. 

P.S. I understand the principle, I just think your expression of your approach is far too dogmatic.

Maybe, some things like speakers are debatable, some issues like PSU are not.

There's a very good reason for that, and as I said, what I want is to hear what Salisbury designed so carefully. Others may  like another sound. 

to be clear I am talking about a Naim amplifier as a component. Not a source or a speaker.

In case it is pointed out I use Chord DAC and Dynaudio speakers, I would say agree, it is a dilution of the Naim intended performance. But that's ok with me, as I like the performance of Chord DACs and Dynaudio speakers.

 Anyway - where is the Naim turntable - before the appearance of Naim CD players?

And also most of the Naim sound comes from the amplifier, that's what I hear. My opinion.

MangoMonkey posted:

I need to get new din/xlr cables for the nap500. 

Don'twant to do superlumina yet (and not doing anything else fancy/expensive - will do superlumina eceneventu).

Are the witch hat ones comparable in quality to standard naim ones? Anyone with direct experience?

I got a Witch Hat 4 pin to go between (your old) DAC V1 and 110 and it was a night and day difference from a Naim black. I’m going to need longer speaker cable runs soon, and I won’t hesitate to use the Witch Hat. Real quality stuff for not a lot of money. 

 

Huge posted:
analogmusic posted:

I would just get the original Naim DIN/XLR cables.

You're not going to get the benefit of your 500 by using third party cables.

It seems a pity to me to buy a 500 DR only to undermine the sound by using non-naim cables in this critical place.

I've tried a few non-naim ones and went back to the Naim stock DIN/XLR.

I had a similar experience to Chris Bell. 

 

So, on the basis of "I've tried a few non-naim ones and went back to the Naim stock DIN/XLR.", you state that "You're not going to get the benefit of your 500 by using third party cables."

A bit like "Some men are rapists, therefore all men are rapists."


Your logic doesn't hold.

 

In cable threads, Analogmusic hasn't displayed much logic in recent times -- just copy and paste across threads... Quite boring actually to hear the same sweeping comments again and again...

analogmusic posted:
 

But N.I.P. is a moving target.

The Lavender is supplied with the CD5Si all the way to the NDS.  Do they all have the same N.I.P.?

Yes

The DIN to XLR is supplied with the 300 and the 500 (and the same construction is used for the 250, just with 1 wire not connected), do these all have the same N.I.P.?

Yes

 

All systems are a balance of sound that's an engineering compromise with component altering the sound in a different way, and this applies to Naim as much as any other manufacturer.  So, if N.I.P. covers a range of balances, and another cable shifts that balance a little, but still stays within the bounding limits of one Naim system or another, is that not still N.I.P.?

No, it is not. Please read the comments I posted above about loss of tension and leading edge, and a certain softness to the sound. It is why I understand that Naim never made a Hi-line DIN/XLR.

What about changing speakers?  They have such a dramatic effect on the balance of the sound; surely to remain with the limits of N.I.P. we must use Naim speakers, otherwise we'll be completely outside of the limits of N.I.P..  If we can change speakers to those of another manufacturer and remain within N.I.P. than surely we can change to a different manufacturer's CD player (or amp...   or cables!).

that's debatable, some speakers do in fact cloak and choke the Naim intended performance. 

P.S. I understand the principle, I just think your expression of your approach is far too dogmatic.

Maybe, some things like speakers are debatable, some issues like PSU are not.

There's a very good reason for that, and as I said, what I want is to hear what Salisbury designed so carefully. Others may  like another sound. 

to be clear I am talking about a Naim amplifier as a component. Not a source or a speaker.

In case it is pointed out I use Chord DAC and Dynaudio speakers, I would say agree, it is a dilution of the Naim intended performance. But that's ok with me, as I like the performance of Chord DACs and Dynaudio speakers.

 Anyway - where is the Naim turntable - before the appearance of Naim CD players?

And also most of the Naim sound comes from the amplifier, that's what I hear. My opinion.

Let me try a simpler paradigm...

If, hypothetically speaking, someone, for instance, found a cable with characteristics precisely in between the standard N.I.P. black cable, and the (presumably also N.I.P.) Super Lumina cable, would that not also be N.I.P.?

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