Introducing Uniti, our revolutionary new streaming platform.

The debate about Naim's decision to release what they have just announced seems rather pointless, and in some cases levels criticism at Naim that seems quite unfounded. Whilst I haven't followed Naim's product evolution for more than a couple of years I cannot say for certain, but from my awareness of the ranges and recent evolution, it seems likely that there will often have been updates or replacements for products that have appealed more to some people and less to others, with a time spacing between releases in any particular category or range inevitably dependant upon the amount of R&D required, availability of resources and the company's judgement of what sector is either overdue or is likely to have good marketability.

i don't doubt that having just made a vast step forward with the Uniti range the next steps will be somewhere else - and undoubtedly already under internal development as all the R&D for the new Unity range will have completed long before they were ready to release them.

If I were to bother guessing I'd go for something in the streaming and/or DAC category above the Uniti range, for a range of reasons, e.g. it will be evident to Naim that they have been losing sales to competitors in this category in recent times, and computer power continues to develop rapidly meaning that what was the ultimate state of the art only 5 years ago is entry level now, so they can have a much more platform at their fingertips, as well as many more years of programming development. And aside from that, as others have pointed out the amplification range has only recently been DR'd, while I suspect that analogue amps have reached a maturity that they are unlikely to progress much further.

Guy007 posted:

For power/consumption standards, the place to look to is California.  They will be leading the way on reducing 'vampire devices' power use ( think phone/tablet chargers ) and standby use.

Actuslly germany is being very aggressive in this area here in europe

I am trying to imagine this new Uniti range played in a whole system with speakers.  I get the impression that the amplifiers' outputs are designed for sensitive speakers not for speakers which are more difficult to drive (eg Dynaudio, ATC)  This Uniti range seems reasonably priced so I imagine the systems will be small to medium.  I know that price in HiFi is strictly no indicator of sound quality but I don't imagine the new Unity range to be married with £8,000.00 to onwards speakers.  Personally the option for CD ripping and storage is a delightful bonus and I shall wait till the Unity range is properly reviewed.  For streaming and computer based audio this new range seems a treat but competitors may do a similar job for less money.  

Phil Harris posted:
fred40 posted:
Phil Harris posted:
Mark R posted:

Could Core get the streaming platform? That would be ideal

Core is ripping and serving only...

Phil

Would be a good thing though to implement a streamer.

We have - that's the Atom, Star and Nova ... or are you meaning a standalone source component like an ND5XS / NDX / NDS? Remember this is all Uniti series products...

Phil

Phil - one scenario: those with a current DAC and looking to consolidate music sources into (preferably) a one-box solution. Today, there are myriad non-Naim combinations possible before the DAC for local and streaming sources. If one has an nDAC, the Naim solution would entail two boxes: Core plus one of ND components. In doing so, you enter the redundant DAC discussion scene of the source component, plus multi-box.

Adding streaming to a Core-like platform would consolidate all music sources to a single box with no DAC or amp redundancy. It would also provide a neat, cost-effective one box migration path away from e.g. Sonos Connect + Mac Mini + USB/SPDIF converter + NAS.

I recognise those with pure nDAC setups and no Naim ND front end are probably an extreme niche compared to the rest of the market opportunity, but it's nice to selfishly dream Core v2 with wireless and streaming. Of course, it would confuse some messaging in the Uniti range, making it 0% probable

-Mark

jon honeyball posted:
nbpf posted:
jon honeyball posted:

"These functionalities can be easily implemented at zero cost with open source software, see mRendu and Bryston BDP-Pi, for example"

There is no such thing as zero cost for a manufacturer. If naim is to do something, it has to test, validate, dealer support, warranty the platform.  That is an entirely different world to you shoving something on that you downloaded this morning. 

Right, I should have written "minimal" costs or "moderate" costs or perhaps just "low" costs! Thanks, nbpf

Depends on your definition of "minimal" and "moderate", of course. Plucking a figure out of the air, does tens of thousands of pounds sound "moderate" to you?

It sounds moderate to me but my impressions really do not matter. The point that I was trying to make is that, as devices like the Sonore mRendu and the Bryston BDP-Pi suggest, companies can effectively exploit open source software to build decent, flexible servers and players. Softwarewise, Naim does not actually need to reinvent anything new (let apart invest years or R&D) to catch up with these examples. They only have to embrace open standards, exploit their expertise in building outstanding hardware and avoid the mistakes made with the UnitiServe.

Mark R posted:
Phil Harris posted:
fred40 posted:
Phil Harris posted:
Mark R posted:

Could Core get the streaming platform? That would be ideal

Core is ripping and serving only...

Phil

Would be a good thing though to implement a streamer.

We have - that's the Atom, Star and Nova ... or are you meaning a standalone source component like an ND5XS / NDX / NDS? Remember this is all Uniti series products...

Phil

Phil - one scenario: those with a current DAC and looking to consolidate music sources into (preferably) a one-box solution. Today, there are myriad non-Naim combinations possible before the DAC for local and streaming sources. If one has an nDAC, the Naim solution would entail two boxes: Core plus one of ND components. In doing so, you enter the redundant DAC discussion scene of the source component, plus multi-box.

Adding streaming to a Core-like platform would consolidate all music sources to a single box with no DAC or amp redundancy. It would also provide a neat, cost-effective one box migration path away from e.g. Sonos Connect + Mac Mini + USB/SPDIF converter + NAS.

I recognise those with pure nDAC setups and no Naim ND front end are probably an extreme niche compared to the rest of the market opportunity, but it's nice to selfishly dream Core v2 with wireless and streaming. Of course, it would confuse some messaging in the Uniti range, making it 0% probable

-Mark

+1 

I would definitely be in the market for such a device

Mark R posted:
Phil Harris posted:
fred40 posted:
Phil Harris posted:
Mark R posted:

Could Core get the streaming platform? That would be ideal

Core is ripping and serving only...

Phil

Would be a good thing though to implement a streamer.

We have - that's the Atom, Star and Nova ... or are you meaning a standalone source component like an ND5XS / NDX / NDS? Remember this is all Uniti series products...

Phil

Phil - one scenario: those with a current DAC and looking to consolidate music sources into (preferably) a one-box solution. Today, there are myriad non-Naim combinations possible before the DAC for local and streaming sources. If one has an nDAC, the Naim solution would entail two boxes: Core plus one of ND components. In doing so, you enter the redundant DAC discussion scene of the source component, plus multi-box.

Adding streaming to a Core-like platform would consolidate all music sources to a single box with no DAC or amp redundancy. It would also provide a neat, cost-effective one box migration path away from e.g. Sonos Connect + Mac Mini + USB/SPDIF converter + NAS.

...

I thought that one can connect a Core directly to a Naim DAC via s/pdif. For that to work, the Core only needs to run something like minimserver, mpd and upmpdcli. This is open source software that runs very reliably and that can be controlled wirelessly from any OH control point. I understand Naim might have opted for a proprietary solution but I very much hope that the functionality is available as, I understand, it was available on the US. Is there meanwhile some technical documentation on the new devices?

Jude2012 posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:
Jude2012 posted:
DUPREE posted:
I agree that this assessment is unfair, and the 272 is pretty much a drop in replacement for the 282 in all but a few use cases, the only thing that is missing is a 500/NDS level streamer/preamp. I honestly think the market for an analog only pre-amp like the 282 has to have about run it’s course. Maybe it’s generational (I’m in my mid 40’s) and do have a lot of vinyl, but I just couldn’t see where the market for a 282 type device is going to go anymore. You miss too much music not having the option to stream. I have owned an analog all linn active system (LK/Kairn/LP-12/Ikemi etc) and updated to NAC-N 272/XPS/NAP-200/LP-12 and a QB -- I think their roadmap is strong and the products they have been releasing just super.

> On Oct 7, 2016, at 7:42 PM, Naim Audio Forums <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

If the 272 is truly a drop in fir the 282, the 282 would not be selling and Naim would drop it from its line (like the CDS3). Incidentally, where does the 272 stand now against a Uniti Nova?

The 272 surely stands against the Nova where it currently stands against the SuperUniti. Unless of course the Nova, though some miracle, becomes as good as a 272/250, which is distinctly doubtful. According to my dealer, the 272 sells really well, the 282 hardly at all, and they couldn't remember when they last sold a 202. 

Why would the 272 be the 'lower' than the Nova with all the improvements ?  Unless of course a XPS  is added to the 272.

One dealer in one part of one country, is anecdotal info at best.

Is new BMW 3 series better than old 5 ? Then everything new have to be better than everything old, I am sue it will be better than the series it replacing and offer some new tricks that not present in 272 but SQ Wise I doubt it, but we have to wait and hear, I bought 272 recently and if you ask me if I buy it tomorrow I would say yes because I belive new series a step up from muso range where 272 is a step down from best of the classic which is where I stand, also a power amp like 250dr/300dr is a timeless machine

nbpf posted:
jon honeyball posted:
nbpf posted:
jon honeyball posted:

"These functionalities can be easily implemented at zero cost with open source software, see mRendu and Bryston BDP-Pi, for example"

There is no such thing as zero cost for a manufacturer. If naim is to do something, it has to test, validate, dealer support, warranty the platform.  That is an entirely different world to you shoving something on that you downloaded this morning. 

Right, I should have written "minimal" costs or "moderate" costs or perhaps just "low" costs! Thanks, nbpf

Depends on your definition of "minimal" and "moderate", of course. Plucking a figure out of the air, does tens of thousands of pounds sound "moderate" to you?

It sounds moderate to me but my impressions really do not matter. The point that I was trying to make is that, as devices like the Sonore mRendu and the Bryston BDP-Pi suggest, companies can effectively exploit open source software to build decent, flexible servers and players. Softwarewise, Naim does not actually need to reinvent anything new (let apart invest years or R&D) to catch up with these examples. They only have to embrace open standards, exploit their expertise in building outstanding hardware and avoid the mistakes made with the UnitiServe.

I cannot take a company seriously when of the three named people on their website, one has a comcast.net address, one has a gmail.com address and the other has none. Does Sonore run out of a bedroom?

Revolutionary - I think not, merely more of the same in a different box. Improved performance maybe, but nothing really revolutionary such as streaming an analogue input to a multiroom arrangement.
As for the styling, it depends whether one wants to listen to it or look at it.

Phil Harris posted:
fred40 posted:
Phil Harris posted:
Mark R posted:

Could Core get the streaming platform? That would be ideal

Core is ripping and serving only...

Phil

Would be a good thing though to implement a streamer.

We have - that's the Atom, Star and Nova ... or are you meaning a standalone source component like an ND5XS / NDX / NDS? Remember this is all Uniti series products...

Phil

I,m not yet familiar with the new product range but it seems to me it would be a good thing to implement a streamer in a moderate pricerange into the uniti core. Enables people who ar afraid of working with ripping software by means of the computer to easily rip , play and serve their musicfiles. Well. Just my two eurocents.

fred40 posted:
Phil Harris posted:
fred40 posted:
Phil Harris posted:
Mark R posted:

Could Core get the streaming platform? That would be ideal

Core is ripping and serving only...

Phil

Would be a good thing though to implement a streamer.

We have - that's the Atom, Star and Nova ... or are you meaning a standalone source component like an ND5XS / NDX / NDS? Remember this is all Uniti series products...

Phil

I,m not yet familiar with the new product range but it seems to me it would be a good thing to implement a streamer in a moderate pricerange into the uniti core. Enables people who ar afraid of working with ripping software by means of the computer to easily rip , play and serve their musicfiles. Well. Just my two eurocents.

The Uniti Core does have a digital output that you can connect to a DAC or a digital input on a preamp, so why would you want a streamer in the same box?

best

David

David Hendon posted:

The Uniti Core does have a digital output that you can connect to a DAC or a digital input on a preamp, so why would you want a streamer in the same box?

I assume people are wanting the Core to support streaming services such as Tidal and Spotify, Internet Radio and alternative network interfaces such as AirPlay...

nigelb posted:

It seems to me that Naim introduced Muso (& Qb) to 'introduce' peeps to the brand and show that you don't need to spend a fortune on Hifi to get a decent sound. The aim must be to eventually upsell some of these Muso newbees to something…well…a little better. But the Uniti range, the clear contender for most of the upselling potential was falling behind a little. So enter the new Uniti range. Much more attractive, presumably much more capable (in SQ and functional terms) and the obvious next step for the MuSo newbees who have decided they want more.

Once you have sampled what true hi res streaming is cable of with a proper pair of speakers, next thing you know these not-so-newbies are looking for their next fix - ooh let's see, the classic range looks tempting.

Very smart strategy, and commercially essential in these days of a static, if not shrinking hifi market.

Great point indeed! I have a couple of friends, who've followed this path..

Kiwi posted:

Revolutionary - I think not, merely more of the same in a different box. Improved performance maybe, but nothing really revolutionary such as streaming an analogue input to a multiroom arrangement.

According to the audio affair blog (they're a dealer based near me), that precisely one of the things that the new range can do. They specifically mention streaming vinyl to other unit(i)s.

Artferg20 posted:
nigelb posted:

It seems to me that Naim introduced Muso (& Qb) to 'introduce' peeps to the brand and show that you don't need to spend a fortune on Hifi to get a decent sound. The aim must be to eventually upsell some of these Muso newbees to something…well…a little better. But the Uniti range, the clear contender for most of the upselling potential was falling behind a little. So enter the new Uniti range. Much more attractive, presumably much more capable (in SQ and functional terms) and the obvious next step for the MuSo newbees who have decided they want more.

Once you have sampled what true hi res streaming is cable of with a proper pair of speakers, next thing you know these not-so-newbies are looking for their next fix - ooh let's see, the classic range looks tempting.

Very smart strategy, and commercially essential in these days of a static, if not shrinking hifi market.

Great point indeed! I have a couple of friends, who've followed this path..

Indeed I was reintroduced to Naim with the Uniti 2 and a UnitiServe which was also my first taste of hi res streaming. This was in the days when MuSo wasn't even a twinkle in the eye of the Naim product development team. You only need to look at my profile and the Naim system I own now to see where that modest little Uniti took me. Not sure if my upgrading behaviour is typical but I still believe Naim now have greater possibilities of upselling with (via) MuSo and the new Uniti range.

fred40 posted:
Phil Harris posted:
fred40 posted:
Phil Harris posted:
Mark R posted:

Could Core get the streaming platform? That would be ideal

Core is ripping and serving only...

Phil

Would be a good thing though to implement a streamer.

We have - that's the Atom, Star and Nova ... or are you meaning a standalone source component like an ND5XS / NDX / NDS? Remember this is all Uniti series products...

Phil

I,m not yet familiar with the new product range but it seems to me it would be a good thing to implement a streamer in a moderate pricerange into the uniti core. Enables people who ar afraid of working with ripping software by means of the computer to easily rip , play and serve their musicfiles. Well. Just my two eurocents.

Fred, by yhe look of it the uniti Core does rip, play and serve. It just won't stream from another server, possibly because its not a streamer but a server...

jon honeyball posted:
nbpf posted:
jon honeyball posted:
nbpf posted:
jon honeyball posted:

"These functionalities can be easily implemented at zero cost with open source software, see mRendu and Bryston BDP-Pi, for example"

There is no such thing as zero cost for a manufacturer. If naim is to do something, it has to test, validate, dealer support, warranty the platform.  That is an entirely different world to you shoving something on that you downloaded this morning. 

Right, I should have written "minimal" costs or "moderate" costs or perhaps just "low" costs! Thanks, nbpf

Depends on your definition of "minimal" and "moderate", of course. Plucking a figure out of the air, does tens of thousands of pounds sound "moderate" to you?

It sounds moderate to me but my impressions really do not matter. The point that I was trying to make is that, as devices like the Sonore mRendu and the Bryston BDP-Pi suggest, companies can effectively exploit open source software to build decent, flexible servers and players. Softwarewise, Naim does not actually need to reinvent anything new (let apart invest years or R&D) to catch up with these examples. They only have to embrace open standards, exploit their expertise in building outstanding hardware and avoid the mistakes made with the UnitiServe.

I cannot take a company seriously when of the three named people on their website, one has a comcast.net address, one has a gmail.com address and the other has none. Does Sonore run out of a bedroom?

I do not know, I do not have any affiliation with Sonore. But you do not actually need to take Sonore (or, in fact, any other company) seriously to follow the argument that I have been trying to make: namely that Naim, in much the same way as other companies, could exploit existing open source software to build flexible servers. They could also develop their own software platform, of course. But that would likely imply higher R&D costs. These would only be justified if the final software was significantly better than the existing open source one. This was not the case for the US software, in my view. I am therefore curious to see which OS and software the new Core is based upon and I hope that detailed technical information will soon be available.

Eloise posted:
David Hendon posted:

The Uniti Core does have a digital output that you can connect to a DAC or a digital input on a preamp, so why would you want a streamer in the same box?

I assume people are wanting the Core to support streaming services such as Tidal and Spotify, Internet Radio and alternative network interfaces such as AirPlay...

Indeed, it would be very disappointing if the Core would not support delivering such services to an attached DAC. What else is a server supposed to do other than providing local, LAN and internet data to LAN streamers and attached DACs?

Richard Dane posted:
fred40 posted:
Phil Harris posted:
fred40 posted:
Phil Harris posted:
Mark R posted:

Could Core get the streaming platform? That would be ideal

Core is ripping and serving only...

Phil

Would be a good thing though to implement a streamer.

We have - that's the Atom, Star and Nova ... or are you meaning a standalone source component like an ND5XS / NDX / NDS? Remember this is all Uniti series products...

Phil

I,m not yet familiar with the new product range but it seems to me it would be a good thing to implement a streamer in a moderate pricerange into the uniti core. Enables people who ar afraid of working with ripping software by means of the computer to easily rip , play and serve their musicfiles. Well. Just my two eurocents.

Fred, by yhe look of it the uniti Core does rip, play and serve. It just won't stream from another server, possibly because its not a streamer but a server...

Thats why I like to see a streamer inside. A total box solution for an affordable price

David Hendon posted:
fred40 posted:
Phil Harris posted:
fred40 posted:
Phil Harris posted:
Mark R posted:

Could Core get the streaming platform? That would be ideal

Core is ripping and serving only...

Phil

Would be a good thing though to implement a streamer.

We have - that's the Atom, Star and Nova ... or are you meaning a standalone source component like an ND5XS / NDX / NDS? Remember this is all Uniti series products...

Phil

I,m not yet familiar with the new product range but it seems to me it would be a good thing to implement a streamer in a moderate pricerange into the uniti core. Enables people who ar afraid of working with ripping software by means of the computer to easily rip , play and serve their musicfiles. Well. Just my two eurocents.

The Uniti Core does have a digital output that you can connect to a DAC or a digital input on a preamp, so why would you want a streamer in the same box?

best

David

Maybe to avoid a standalone streamer?

Eloise posted:

Can anyone confirm if the Uniti Core operates as a standard UPnP server for non-Naim devices?

I can't see why it would be a problem - my Unitiserve can be seen by non-Naim devices, and my Sony ZX2 can play from it, so I doubt the Core would have lost this capability. UPnP would seen like a bit of a misnomer it you couldn't do this. 

nbpf posted:
jon honeyball posted:
nbpf posted:
jon honeyball posted:
nbpf posted:
jon honeyball posted:

"These functionalities can be easily implemented at zero cost with open source software, see mRendu and Bryston BDP-Pi, for example"

There is no such thing as zero cost for a manufacturer. If naim is to do something, it has to test, validate, dealer support, warranty the platform.  That is an entirely different world to you shoving something on that you downloaded this morning. 

Right, I should have written "minimal" costs or "moderate" costs or perhaps just "low" costs! Thanks, nbpf

Depends on your definition of "minimal" and "moderate", of course. Plucking a figure out of the air, does tens of thousands of pounds sound "moderate" to you?

It sounds moderate to me but my impressions really do not matter. The point that I was trying to make is that, as devices like the Sonore mRendu and the Bryston BDP-Pi suggest, companies can effectively exploit open source software to build decent, flexible servers and players. Softwarewise, Naim does not actually need to reinvent anything new (let apart invest years or R&D) to catch up with these examples. They only have to embrace open standards, exploit their expertise in building outstanding hardware and avoid the mistakes made with the UnitiServe.

I cannot take a company seriously when of the three named people on their website, one has a comcast.net address, one has a gmail.com address and the other has none. Does Sonore run out of a bedroom?

I do not know, I do not have any affiliation with Sonore. But you do not actually need to take Sonore (or, in fact, any other company) seriously to follow the argument that I have been trying to make: namely that Naim, in much the same way as other companies, could exploit existing open source software to build flexible servers. They could also develop their own software platform, of course. But that would likely imply higher R&D costs. These would only be justified if the final software was significantly better than the existing open source one. This was not the case for the US software, in my view. I am therefore curious to see which OS and software the new Core is based upon and I hope that detailed technical information will soon be available.

Again you are confusing free software with free delivery. It doesn't work like that. 

Evening all 

I have a unitiqute2 and this range made me stop and see how it will integrate with current set. 

Lots of discussions about the core. Some of you started dreaming about the inclusion of a streamer. The graal of all in one server I guess

However, i noticed that the star could be that graal as you can stream and also reap. No idea how big is the internal storage but imagine if we can simply use a good hardrive. 

I am not an expert but surely the star is the true all in one if it does all that. Some sort of SU with a CD player and ripper? Did I miss something as nobody excited by that ? 

 

 

Solid Air posted:

I believe the Star doesn't have storage - it can rip and stream but not store music. So not a replacement for the HDX. 

I think I read somewhere that the Uniti Star can save rips to an external drive, but it's not a server, so can't serve different streams to multiple streamers like the HDX, Unitiserve or Uniti Core can.

David Hendon posted:
Solid Air posted:

I believe the Star doesn't have storage - it can rip and stream but not store music. So not a replacement for the HDX. 

I think I read somewhere that the Uniti Star can save rips to an external drive, but it's not a server, so can't serve different streams to multiple streamers like the HDX, Unitiserve or Uniti Core can.

You are right most probably but surely, If i can play and rip plus save to a hard drive, i have a good one box solution if I don't worry about sending to another room.

secondly, the uniti were supposed to be talking to each other aka multiroom capability. 

Are you sure this is not possible here too? 

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