Linn DSM Products

Hi Neill -

There was another thread on this topic:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/di...nt/10154800508907412

Hook

Didn't check that section. Tend only to read Home cinema and hi fi corner. I still think its a very interesting development by Linn. 

Neil,

I could be wrong but i think Linn are using HDMI for stereo only - and expect that to be sent as PCM.

If fed 5.1 it will only pass through the L & R channels.

Personally, I like having individual bits of kit that I can mix and match. Not combinations of disparate functionality, a la Meridian; in this case a pre-amp and a streamer.

I can see the attraction to a manufacturer, trying to lock you into a brand.

I'm happy with my Oppo and the AV2 - I WAS tempted to get an Onkyo replacement, and rid myself of an HDMI switch and use sell of a couple of my Naim power amps, but thought that SQ should rule.

IF Linn / Naim or anyone else produces a great sounding AV decoder WITH HDMI and incorporate HDMI switching I might be interested ... but, HDMI seems to me to have a high entry bar, and is a fast moving 'standard', as such I wonder if Naim will allow themselves to be burned again?

M

My only comment is that Linn is smokin' Naim on the marketing front. Linn's new web site is simply awesome...for the target market they are going for. That target market is probably not most people in this forum, but I think they are going after biggest market for the next step up beyond consumer audio.

Naim needs to watch out, they are going to loose a lot of revenue to companies that present a simpler, clearer solution, less boxes and less complexity (on the surface at least, reviews of Linn products say the home networking part is a bear.) Naim has the products out there (Uniti, etc.), but they are marketed in the same way they pitch to audiophiles.

Heck, I'm confused and holding out on Naim's streaming products and there's a lot of frustrated people here. My dealer is in the same spot and struggling to figure out how to allocate his money on demo units.

Great post Mr Underhill 

I have posted a thread before highlighting the difficulty implementing HDMI successfully. I can't comment on exactly what the Linn product does but its an interesting notion considering the known problems with HDMI. One box taking an HDMI feed carrying out pre-amp duties and also that of a high quality streamer add in another box for decoding of formats and a five channel amp you then have complete 5.1/7.1, pre-amp, decoder and source. It to me seems a very neat solution to the current programs with home cinema. 

Lets be honest here Naim have all but washed there hands of the HC market and seeing a specialist manufacturer regardless of your view of them offering a product which looks as though it could be part of a high quality home cinema hi-fi source should surely be applauded ? 

I can't remember the last time a product really interested me and this certainly does should a 'decoder' follow in 12 months time then this product really could be seen as a stroke of genius having heard the akurate in the past I was very impressed by the musically presentation hopefully some exciting products to follow that get people back interested in home cinema. 

Neill

I can't disagree with that way to many products in Naims range which makes the current product portfolio hard to understand and must increase manufacturing costs. A simply product line from Naim is required. 

Thx Neill,

Like you I love my HC, and like you I can't think of anything that has really excited me. I thought the Oppo could be a great cross platform tool, when I saw that it is a DLNA client, i.e. I could use it to render the streams for my nDAC - but it was very pedestrian.

Personally I am happy with 5.1, and wouldn't mind reducing my box count ...but, I do watch a fair few films in glorious 1.1, saving my main valve amps for music, rather than right left sweeps as a car drives by! And I've enjoyed playing the iRadio from the NS01 back via the AV2 in mono.

Can't see myself changing things in the foreseeable future, although I do catch myself looking for an Axcent!

M

Mutterback,

I think you are right. I feel that companies like Linn & Naim are being driven up market, and are positioning themselves like B&O.

I think the new Linn website home page is great, goes a bit downhill after that, but it is aiming to set a tone (sic) and get none-HiFi geeks interested IMO.

The Uniti is a great cross-over set of products, and I think you are right, Naim should seriously consider marketing them differently.

I DO like the Naim streaming solution, in that I think the NS01/nDAC/PSU that I use produces fantastic music - as I type I'm listening to Jarrett's Koln concert, superb.

BUT, again they are mixing lots of functionality across multiple boxes at different price points.

The nDAC is a great product, as it allows you to upgrade it meaningfully using PSUs. Perhaps they should have developed a stand alone renderer along the same model? And have one server/ripper solution.

In fairness these products have been developed in the heat of commercial competition, and perhaps some rationalisation is called for?

--Sorry Neill, completely off-topic!

M

I think that hi-fi in general has had to become more fashionable it has to have the wife factor and lets be honest most people don't want loads and loads of boxes. I think Linn did the right thing again offering there speakers in any colour you want these little things make a difference at present Naim make the N-Sat yet the stand we were told was a must for it is no longer produced . Naim badly need to sort out the product range and make it easier to understand the range of products and sort out the speaker range. They really are losing ground to Linn. 

I agree.

M

Continuing apologies to Neill for totally hijacking his post on 5.1 & HDMI. Maybe we should split off a post "friendly marketing feedback to Naim" or something. Would be good to do a poll "How many people are confused by Naims digital products?"

Comment here is that I remember seeing that Unit actually does have its own site, and just googled. It should get pulled at the very least:

http://www.naimuniti.com/

Here's the main image from the site - yikes, cringe, etc.

I have no problem at all with people posting on this thread its been a while since I posted here and its just a little annoying that Naim hasn't tried something similar to Linn. 

Errrrr,

.....and the message is:

1. Listen to the Uniti and you'll STOP increasing the surplus population;

2. Listen to the Uniti and you can get your mind OFF those donuts;

3. .......?

M

I think you have this backwards–Naim products possess a lower price to entry and are easier to use, whereas the Linn products fail to provide basic control and connectivity for that oh-so-ubiquitous accessory, the iPod.

As for the website–it's a bit over-the-top and would probably be better minus the oddly-branded background branding images–all IMHO of course.

David,

I think that both Naim and Linn are trying to attract new audiences for their product.

Ignoring the strange images I think the opening page of the Linn site is excellent and clean.

Once you get behind that I think it falls to pieces, at least with Firefox on Ubuntu.

If you want to attract ME then I think the Naim site is fine.

I wonder whether Naim should develop the Uniti site to attract this new audience - perhaps less hair shirt and more lifestyle; then seduce them into something REALLY good!

M

Linns new site looks great but is a complete and utter nightmare to use. I think Linn is right products do have to have a more lifestyle feel to them and style to the new hi-fi buyer will be as important as sound. 

I actually think the Naim case work is a little tired looking and the case work is currently close to what 11-12 years of age ? it wouldn't do Naim any harm to launch a new range with a new style and design in a simplified product range. 

I pray Naim respects the genius of the simplicity of the current design, and keeps future products harmonious.  It disappears in the darkness just enough, for my taste.  If Naim gear was as large as Mcintosh remains in its tradition, lovely though it is, I would be less off an advocate for the current form.  Naim has nailed the low-key, "black turtle-neck and jacket" look for hi-fi, in a convenient, package size that rocks:  timeless.

Quote by David Dever:

I think you have this backwards–Naim products possess a lower price to entry and are easier to use, whereas the Linn products fail to provide basic control and connectivity for that oh-so-ubiquitous accessory, the iPod.

Uhm...Well Naim products don't offer a lower price of entry. Compare the Linn Sneaky DS all in one streamer amp with the Uniqute and you will find they are in the same price range. Oh and BTW the Sneaky like all Linn DS's has always streamed up 192/24 over a network connection since day 1 so why it took Naim so long I don't know. Moving up the Majik DS is also at a competitive price point and so on up the ladder. 

Don't provide basic control & connectivity??

Linn DS can be completely controlled easily and reliably on i-pod  etc via your choice of multiple apps available from both Linn and other software writers since they are open source. For example you can 'songcast' to multiple rooms, control volume, create playlists and listen to radio easily from you armchair. What's not controlled?

Not control from the iPod, but control of an iPod (or iPod-compatible devices).

Sneaky DS is significantly more expensive on this side of the pond....

OK I see where you are coming from now, fair comment.

Price difference is a shock, they are very similar over here.

Sneaky DS retails at an entry level price point Naim offer no similar product for the money you would have to buy an amp and cd player which would cost you a good bit more than a sneaky DS. 

Nothing stopping you connecting an iPod to a DSM using a digital dock. 

Not that you need to, since Linn are supporting Airplay now so people who want to should be able to stream directly from iTouches, iPhones, iPads and macs.

And the HDMI connectivity means that you could hook up (say) a Mac Mini to a DSM,  take the audio through your DSM to your hifi and pass the video to your tv - great for iTunes, and many other possibilities. 

Sitting in front of your tv with iTunes displayed on it, listening to your music through your hifi and remote controlling it through an  iPad .. a lot of people would be quite happy with that it seems to me.

Not SHOULD, can.  Works like a charm and I would expect that Naim will be right behind them in this.

PS.  You can also stream anything (soundwise) from a Mac or PC using their SongCaster which is better quality than AirPlay.  I would imagine that video is not far behind.  HDMI out anyone?

Is the control (or connectivity for that matter) neccesary with AirPlay in the mix?  I know it's not the same sound quality as lashing one into a dac but do people really use their iPhone, etc. for high fidelity music replay?

Physical connectivity is really restrictive - why would anyone want to tether their iPhone to their hifi?