Apple's Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC) Now Open Source

This is the natural precursor to selling lossless files or streams through iTunes.  While ALAC was proprietary and licensed, most streaming or device vendors didn't bother including it.  Once open source and free, it should become a standard feature on most CE devices from now on.  Apple rapidly gain themselves a much larger potential customer base.

While many of us had hoped for Apple to add FLAC support to their products, they appear to be looking to add ALAC to everyone elses.

What's this likely to mean to Naim?

Hmmm, interesting. The problem is that with the little testing I've done, I find FLAC to be superior to ALAC. I'd prefer Apple to add FLAC support.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Oh here we go again .. we've already been told WAV sounds better than FLAC, now FLAC sounds better than ALAC .. presumably this is on Naim gear. A simple guy like me just reads remarks like the post above as "Naim can't play ALAC  properly". Assuming the decompressed bitstreams are the same  then surely it is up to Naim to make the formats sound the same. Apple have done their bit by putting the ALAC codec in the public domain. Naim need to learn how to make the same bits sound the same, imo.

Most people will never hear a difference between WAV, ALAC or FLAC, and on a properly implemented system there should be no audible difference.

While I agree that the differing levels of computation required to decode FLAC and ALAC will make a small but measurable difference to power consumption, I think you will only actually hear this difference if you personally really want to.

WAV sounds better than FLAC on my Uniti. the sound is fuller and better defined.

too little too late.

Hi Frank,  you need to do more testing - they are the same - bitstream bit for bitstream bit the same  

OK a rotten player/processor may have more trouble decoding one than the other, but the Sonos treats everyone equally. Same bitstream comes out the S/PDIF in to the Yamaha CD/HD Recorder and so I would suggest in to my Naim DAC.

I think A/B testing formats is not easy. I'm sure people hear differences between two listens (they wouldn't say they did if they didn't), but I'm totally unconvinced the conclusion drawn that it is down to a format is correct. 

I've converted lots of albums from AIFF to FLAC to get them on my Vortexbox (mainly to save space, but also 'cos the Vortexbox dudes say it supports the Tags and Artwork better with their software). 

It is a good move by Apple though. I hope Naim supports ALAC, as well as FLAC, WAV, AIFF - I just want to play the music, not worry about what is codec of the month. Sometimes I have to play MP3 low res just because it the only available source of a particular song. I want my Naim player to make it sound as good as it can - not much to ask ... 

All the best, Guy 

Get your Uniti checked on my UQ they are identical.

My dilemma though - how does the DAC chip know what source file the PCM came from?

Are you sure the differences you hear are only down to format of the source file?

Sorry, I'm sure you hear what you say, but not convinced it is because it's FLAC or WAV.

There may be other explanations .....

For example, if I play a CD and then play it again then it can sound better second time around because the electronics have warmed up a bit or something ...  

It is never too late - once Apple starts selling ALAC music at the iTunes store there'll be a queue 

Time will tell, but it is a welcome move of a little late as you say 

It's nothing to do with the PCM that's delivered, but the mode of delivery. We know the PCM is the same, but the stream itself?

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

how much will that cost   They charge full price now for a lossy (and not even the best lossy) album.  i dont see it taking...

Frank - my little Sonos does an equally fine job with both - whatever lossless format comes its way it seems to feed my Naim DAC/555PS just as well.  The W4S Cullen board means it is a very low jitter source and the buffer in the Naim DAC is great equaliser. 

What is in the stream other than bits that you can directly attribute to the codec? The renderer extracts the PCM bits from the FLAC or ALAC file in computer memory before streaming them. It is only the PCM that gets in the stream. I don't see any way the DAC can tell what file type bits came from. 

Are you saying the bits are input differently in to the stream depending on whether the payer is decoding ALAC or FLAC? In which case I'd put forward that Sonos must be a superb player as it overcomes any delays (or perhaps it is such a rotten player both get delayed, but I don't think so as it is as nice to listen as USB stick). 

I've yet to hear any difference between ALAC and FLAC and I can't see how there could be one. That doesn't mean to say there isn't one: just that is beyond the capability of my ears or my little  grey cells both of which have seen better days. 

If you are able and have time give FLAC vs. ALAC a go through a Sonos ZP90 in to a good DAC. I'd be really interested to know if you still hear a difference. 

It is a bit academic though because if you prefer FLAC and you have a file in ALAC you can always convert from one to the other. You could, of course, do this even if Naim embraced ALAC. 

All the best, Guy

The bit-perfect brigade can shoot me, but I agree with Frank - compared to FLAC, WAV and even Windows Media Lossless, ALAC sounds shit.

Don't use it if you don't like it - 

I still don't believe two identical bitstreams arriving from the same computer to a DAC sound different because of anything to do with the codec - unless you are using a very inefficient way of extracting the PCM from one of the codecs (i.e. the players broken). 

Anyway - folks are free to use whatever they want and even believe in magic rippers if they like. 

I just think it is great idea for Naim to support all Apple formats and as many other formats as its customers want. Sonos already supports nearly everybody's favourite so why not Naim. And with Airplay taking off, it will be great to see Naim adopting it. 

Well done Apple for making ALAC open source and bring back HyperCard 

What complete and utter nonsense, but do carry on.  The foo brigade love this sort of thing.  If you have any lossless codecs sounding different to each other, you have some defective kit in the chain.

Good job the music doesn't care which codec is used.  Dear oh dear.

WAV and FLAC in theory carry bit perfect information.  If properly unpacked in a PC the resulting files must be identical.  In practice though, WAV and FLAC may not be fully unpacked in DAC on-the-go, or, some interpolation may still occur in the process.  Who knows?

Mandy Rice-Davies comes to mind.

I'll wager that all of a sudden, ALAC will start to sound "as good" as FLAC to a lot of people, now that it is no longer Apple's "proprietary".

So fix the process. Decoding FLAC is computationally trivial. If Naim can't isolate their audio/DAC circuitry from a tiny bit of mickey mouse processing, or have a powersupply that's not up to a few more processor cycles, then all the other computation/DSP/buffering/etherneting going on must also be messing with the sound. Why is it always that FLAC is supposed to sound worse because of the (tiny) extra processing required to decode it? WAV requires roughly twice the amount of network traffic, buffering etc .. why doesn't that have an impact?

I'm still a simple guy. Naim can't do FLAC properly. 

Are you saying the minuscule process of unzipping a file with identical data inside it equates to processing audio output James?

This is all about the basic solution can't be good enough, it's not "audiophile" - at our next get together how about some ALAC v WAV v FLAC blind testing?