Sonos VS Apple Airport Express

Thanks, that's really useful!

Having used both Aiport Express and Sonos ZP90, I agree with Johnnymo. I also used the digital out from the Airport Express.

The Sonos sounds much better and has a great interface. I initially used my Sonos with a Cambridge Dacmagic and then upgraded to the Naim Dac. That combo worked very well but I have since gone on to a Unitiserve and NDX which is even better.

I now use the Sonos\Cambridge Dacmagic on my office system.

I  think the Sonos offers a great balance of sound quality, convenience and cost and is far better than the Airport Express. Of course the Airport Express works well and is cheap so ultimately it depends on how much you are able to pay for the sound quality you want.

I think both Itunes and Spotify are lower resolution than WAV but Sonos will also play WAV and FLAC if you decide to rip your cds to a NAS or PC. It does not yet support hi res files.

Thanks Graham.

I have a further question - Surely if I only use Spotify premium from now on (with a bit of iTunes 320kbs), the best option is to go straight from the Macbook or iMac optical into the Supernait DAC? 

Having the NDX or Sonos in between my source and SN will only add another layer that won't help at all? 

Currently I use the Airport Express as a wireless device from my iMac, but I could dedicate the Macbook (with optical out) to the Supernait, which I'm guessing will give me the best results. 

I don't many CDs or lossless files on a hard drive that the NDX would benefit from, so I'm guessing that wouldn't be of any use to me, unless I'm missing something here?

> That combo worked very well but I have since gone on to a Unitiserve and NDX which is even better.

Why? Must be less jitter. Perhaps it injects a bit less noise. 

My modified W4S ZP90/Naim DAC sounds much clearer and more my musical than any NDX I've heard playing CD quality music as indeed does a Meridian CD Transport + Naim DAC. NDX/Naim DAC sounds equally good.  That is sounds that way to me. 

Both the Airport Express and unmodified Sonos ZP90 use similar digital out configuration built around rather cheap Cirrus Logic chips. They are not low jitter, but to some extent the Naim DAC's buffering overcomes that. My modified Sonos has very jitter and up-samples and it is currently making a fine job of playing some King Crimson concert material from 1973 (The Great Deceiver Gigs). 

WAV, FLAC and ALAC are indistinguishable to my ears through this set-up. 

I prefer glass optical  (not plastic) connections to Coax when computers are involved.

Coax is fine on the Sonos. 

I

Guido

Why? Must be less jitter. Perhaps it injects a bit less noise.

Probably true, and if I am honest I do not know "why", The NDX and NDAC with the addtional power supplies represents the pinnacle of Naim digital replay (that's their view). Based on advice from Naim and on listening I now have the Unitiserve SSD which can rip but can also act as the server to the NDX for previously ripped files.

I have an XPS2 on the NDX even though I only use it to supply a digital out to my NDAC. The NDAC currently uses the 555ps that I used with my CDS3. I used the Sonos with the NDAC and 5550s but the sound was much better with the Untiserve/NDX.

Some might use the HDX or a SOnos or a laptop or whatever takes their fancy as a source but in my system the improvement in all areas of replay was massive, as you would expect with the costs involved.

So in fariness to Novak, if he is only going to stream lower resolution music then I feel the Sonos will sound more than adequate and in my view better than the Airport Express.

Incidentally, both myself and a friend could clearly hear the difference between WAV and FLAC versions of the same music ripped simultaneously with DB Poweramp multi encoder. Of course,not everyone agrees there will be any difference and I suspect this may also depend on how revealing the system is.

I see you prefer glass rather then plastic optical connections. Again some will say there is no real reason for this if both are transmitting zeros and ones. So, ultimately. we hear what we hear. decide if we prefer it and then decide if we can afford it.

Novak,

I have a further question - Surely if I only use Spotify premium from now on (with a bit of iTunes 320kbs), the best option is to go straight from the Macbook or iMac optical into the Supernait DAC?

I thought you were exploring streaming rather than direct connection.

Of course your proposal would work and it would be the cheapest option but the source is then the MAC which needs to be directly connected to the SN. The MAC will be a "noisy" computer environment but then improving the source costs money. The Supernait will show up later improvments in the source but it depends on how far you want to take it,

Cheers Graham.

When the Harbeths arrive this week, I will play Spotify and do some comparisons between the direct optical connection from the Mac to the SN and also try wireless via the airport express optical into the SN. I may also try the Sonos as they are cheap and will sell easily if it doesn't deliver. 

The ideal would be a Spotify lossless streaming service but I think that's probably a few years away! The other ideal would be to download lossless files from iTunes etc, instead of Mp3. I would pay the difference. 

The NDX / ND5 look to be a great product, and I don't mind paying to get it right, but I believe there's a lot in the unit that I wouldn't use - I don't play from iPod, I don't listen to internet radio and I don't have any files larger than 320, apart from a few albums! And my cd collection is almost non existent these days, so I'm not able to rip anything to a server. Spotify really has taken over my listening, so it's about maximising that, or searching for highest quality MP3s (or above) online and finding the best way to connect to the SN.