To my ears, will a NAC552 sound like a NAC282 when I am 60?

Posted by: Consciousmess on 22 November 2011

Hi all,

 

This question has to be asked, because I imagine one's ability to discern fine sound diminishes as one gets older.  I understand hearing higher frequency decreases as one ages, so once savings permit a comfortable purchase of the 552, will it still sound as great??!!

 

Jon

Posted on: 22 November 2011 by Purity of Essence
Originally Posted by Consciousmess:
.. so once savings permit a comfortable purchase of the 552, will it still sound as great??!!

No - as most will be dead.

 

That said, some pleasures justify a little discomfort. Just don't take it too far (Max).

 

My father was partially deafened in a war and appreciated clarity of diction over volume. Midrange information over detail at the highest frequencies.

 

I suspect that a good system will continue to shine - even when we don't.

Posted on: 22 November 2011 by BigH47

64+ here, a little regular maintenance (Sodium Bicarbonate ear drops), seems to keep things working OK.

 

I will admit that I haven't had a ear test for many years, but I thing generally my hearing is still very good, although do have trouble hearing the wife. 

Posted on: 22 November 2011 by 911gt3r

Hi Fred, sorry Jon.

MMMMMy age is 53 , sorry... PARDON ??  PPeter

Posted on: 22 November 2011 by Jan-Erik Nordoen

Excellent question! Yes, hearing sensitivity decreases with age primarily in the high frequencies, unless you’ve exposed yourself to excessive noise, in which case mid-range frequencies around 4 kHz to 6 kHz will generally be the first to go. Also, your susceptibility to hearing loss depends on how well you chose your parents.

 

The good news is that your ability to appreciate music (and therefore the capabilities of the 552 vs. the 282), is not solely dependant on your hearing sensitivity as measured by the hearing test (audiogram). This test only measures your ability to detect pure tones against a silent background. It doesn’t measure how well you can detect minute spectral and temporal details in an auditory signal, which are more important to music appreciation. These functions take place in the peripheral and central auditory systems and decline with age, unless you've learned to play an instrument when you were young, as a neat piece of recent research by Zendel & Alain shows. They investigated the possibility that musicians experience less age-related decline in auditory perception. Zendel and colleagues tested the hypothesis by measuring auditory processing abilities in lifelong musicians (N = 74) and nonmusicians (N = 89), aged between 18 and 91.

« Musicians demonstrated less age-related decline in some auditory tasks (i.e., gap detection and speech in noise), and had a lifelong advantage in others (i.e., mistuned harmonic detection). Importantly, the rate of age-related decline in hearing sensitivity, as measured by pure-tone thresholds, was similar between both groups, demonstrating that musicians experience less age-related decline in central auditory processing. »

(Musicians experience less age-related decline in central auditory processing.

Zendel, Benjamin Rich; Alain, Claude, Psychology and Aging, Sep 12, 2011)

 

 

In a nutshell, comparing two groups of similar age and similar hearing sensitivity, the musicians had less decline in the ability to appreciate music. I’ll go out on a limb here and suggest that a lifetime of listening to and appreciating music through a system that puts musical values first (such as Naim) might well bring about similar benefits, even if you didn’t learn to play an instrument when you were young.

 

So yes, by all means go for the 552.

 

Jan

Posted on: 22 November 2011 by Don Atkinson
Originally Posted by Jan-Erik Nordoen:

So yes, by all means go for the 552.

 

Jan

I rather suspect Jon is well short of 60 at present and is wondering whether it is worth saving up for a 552 for his 6oth birthday in 20 years time.............

 

The 552 will have been surpased twice-over by superior Naim/Focal pre-amps in 20 years time that will have incorporated an advanced form of compensation device allowing frequencies and sensitivities to be personnally adjusted to suit Naim's ageing customer base.............perhaps?

 

Cheers

 

Don

Posted on: 22 November 2011 by George Fredrik

(Musicians experience less age-related decline in central auditory processing.

Zendel, Benjamin Rich; Alain, Claude, Psychology and Aging, Sep 12, 2011)

 

 

In a nutshell, comparing two groups of similar age and similar hearing sensitivity, the musicians had less decline in the ability to appreciate music. I’ll go out on a limb here and suggest that a lifetime of listening to and appreciating music through a system that puts musical values first (such as Naim) might well bring about similar benefits, even if you didn’t learn to play an instrument when you were young.

 

I rather doubt this. Listening is almost the opposite of playing and is a passive experience in reality, rather than a very concentrated form of learned atcivity - as much physical as mental, but not more so  - mostly concerned with keeping good intonation, rhythm, and ensemble, while continuously making a dynamic that balances with and accomodates others in the band, group, orchestra or chamber ensemble, while also observing the musical notation in front of them in most cases ... et cetera. It requires hours of practice every day to keep the technique in good shape for masterful performances, and the ability to play well in unfamiliar music at, often seemingly, insufficiently long rehearsals.

 

Unless someone has done this at a proficient level rather than simply learning the piano as a small child or never played to a competent level in an ensemble, then it would be hard to imagine the work involved and the concentration that is required even fby the most high class musicians! Listening to recordings is an entirely different proposition. So I cannot see how the research could even speculatively be extended to those listening to recorded music in the home. No doubt those who are primarily listeners have a whole different skill-set to players though, and may actually be better equipped to enjoy music while listening compared to the who have played at a professional level. The trouble with pro muso's is that technical flaws in the playing  while listening to others on records or in concert is painfully apparent, and they also tend to have a much more accute sense of pitch so that even slightly off pitch playing and playback [for whatever reason, and it's sometimes the recording and not the playing]  becomes a real nuisance on repeated listening.

 

I have non-music-playing friends who can find no fault at all with recordings that I find totally intellerable for being off pitch. Though they are cute at finding the rhythmic faults, and sloppy ensemble to a much greater degree than the tuning issue. Interesting is that pianists are often quite tollerant of poor tuinig, and it tends to be those who must make the tuning with no or little help from their instruments, string, wind, and brass players, whose ears become so sensitive to imperfect tuning. This has nothing to do with absolute pitch however ... 

 

Another perspective, possibly not even worth two pennies  ...

 

ATB from George

 

 

Posted on: 22 November 2011 by Loki

Use it or lose it! We audiophiles may be passive correspondents to the musical medium but we are surely refining our techniques to differentiate audio nuance at a particularly micro scale. To my mind that's gotta count!

 

I use a decibel meter when running school discos (1.5k system) to ensure that we don't stray into the danger levels above 90 decibels. You can use this at home too, indeed there is an iPhone app for just such occasions. Listening at 95 db for more than a couple of hours will lead to permanent, non-age-related hearing damage. So, take it easy with the volume pot.!

Posted on: 22 November 2011 by winkyincanada

The 552 presumably holds other cards in its hand than simple high-frequency extension (when compared to the 282). George will agree that a most musical experience can be had by the right set-up, even with limited top-end (and bottom end) frequency response.

Posted on: 23 November 2011 by George Fredrik

George will agree that a most musical experience can be had by the right set-up, even with limited top-end (and bottom end) frequency response.

 

Dear winki,

 

I completely agree. Indeed in my view, there are times with replay where a slightly curtailed frequency response can pay real dividends. In other words there are times in my view, where a slightly narrow band replay is more musical than a flat response to the master recording ...

 

ATB from Georeg

Posted on: 23 November 2011 by Julian H

IMO, the better the equipment, the better the essential musical qualities are demonstrated, so the older you get, the more you will benefit from it. Failing frequencies and sensitivity of your ears is of far less importance than the ebb and flow, emotion and passion that a good bit of hifi will recreate, given the right recording.

 

Fortunately, unlike many others, ALL Naim kit does this well, even the entry level, which is why so many Naimees [whilst we may aspire to the top kit] can sit infront of a humble UnitiQute/N-Sat set-up and be utterly spellbound.. It all comes down to the way your brain deciphers the signal that is being fed to it. If you want to tick boxes, you may be left cold, if you allow yourself to be moved, you will be!

 

Julian

Posted on: 23 November 2011 by Jan-Erik Nordoen

Failing frequencies and sensitivity of your ears is of far less importance that the ebb and flow, emotion and passion that a good bit of hifi will recreate, given the right recording.

 

Spot on Julian, that's the first point I was trying to make further up in the thread.

 

A lot of the regular attendees of the baroque concerts we go to are easily in their 70s or over, and they obviously enjoy what they're hearing. I wonder how many of them are or were musicians.

 

Jan