Naim and USB audio

I too would like the new streamer NDS to include USB out with 24/192 capability. That is first and foremost a selfish wish as I could then buy the NDS [if it ever materializes, that is] to be used with my current USB DAC. Now I use a spare laptop as the source for the Ayre QB-9.

As for the streamers/music players/dac components offered by Naim, it would be interesting to hear what Naim thinks about the future of USB in their own product line and whether they will want to implement use of that interface to the fullest in the future.

Best wishes,

Peter

Sometimes it's just nice to hard wire components such as if you're traveling and taking you equipment along.  I'm wiring my ND5 to my iMac because I'm going to want hi res files and they can't be streamed.

Many manufacturers already offer this features and products but Naim doesn't.

Naim didn't offer digital out until they were sure they could do it well. 

Why is this?  

Because it is not good idea to put a noisy USB input on a DAC: if the Lord had wanted us to use noisy USB then he would not have given as Toslink. DACs don't need USB, USB is the RCA of digital audio. 

Isn't USB good enough for audiophiles?

Not for me - if it was Naim would use it. 

If want to use the USB on and older Mac then you can use a USB/S-PDIF converter like the Halide Bridge or MF V-Link. If you have a new Mac Mini then just use a good optical cable. . 

If you have a PC, well best ask somebody else ..... 

All the best, Guy

You can stream hi-res from Vortexbox to UQ - so I can't see why it wouldn't work for you mudwolf with your set-up if you want to do it. Is it the format you're using? 

In my case, the point is that I like computer audio and I value the convenience of direct connection between a computer and a DAC, that is using a computer for ripping, tagging and playing bits through my favourite audio software (I even use it for vinyl ripping and recording FM programs). I like controlling everything from a PC/MAC platform. I know this may sounds weird to many since I realised many may prefer an streamer or hard disk player just for avoiding to deal with computers. .Basically I feel I don't need an streamer, but I still need the best link between the computer and a DAC, and it seems this would be an USB to SPDIF device....

From the SQ point of view, I still have to be convinced that a dedicated streamer can be a better transport than a computer with the right audio device (for instance a USB to SPDIF adapter).

What on earth is convenient about having to have a cable between your computer and your DAC? It means you have a cable to trip over and your computer in a most inconvenient location. With the streaming approach you are still free to run a server on your pc or laptop, do your ripping on the same machine if you wish, and stream from it to as many suitable network players as you wish. And you can run a variety of control points on the same pc/laptop. You don't have to have a NAS if you don't want one.  s/pdif is a silly way to transfer data from a hard drive to another device, and has many disadvantages, as does usb. 

When I saw Linn Songcast I was dazzled.

Computer audio is progressing very fast -- both in quality and versatility.

Since such a technology as Songcast proves to be viable in a common home network then one doesn't really need USB or S/PDIF devices anymore.

I would agree with you if as you mention you only want to use the computer for ripping but in my case I like using the computer for other audio tasks.

But as you say a network player avoids the need conversion to SPDIF, which I agree it is completely desirable...

As a reasonably early adopter of Computer Audio, its been interesting to watch the rise in the acceptance on this forum of a computer into the Hi-Fi system, whether in the guise of a Mac Mini, Unitiserve / HDX or the many UPnP server solutions. Now the CA market is more mature and the computer is no longer seen as the bad relation to other audio sources, i'm sure Naim could introduce a well implemented USB connection to a more welcoming audience. 

Me, having done the Mac 'n' Dac route, i like the Streaming solution - both can produce great sound quality but i like to keep the noisy bits at the other end of an Ethernet cable. 

James

If you stream from your computer there's nothing stopping you using it for whatever audio or non-audio tasks you want. SInce it won't have a USB cable stretching from it to a DAC it is likely a lot more useful!

Well, if you demand gapless replay, and dont have a streamer made by the maker of the server, it may be the best way to get audio to a Naim DAC.

In my scenario, if I bought a Touch or something, and moved the PC to another room, I would lose two important things for me: 

1) the 10' interface with the media player (J River)

and

2) gapless replay

If I bought a Qute or NDxyz, I think I would be required to use nStream App if I demanded gapless.

My PC in conveniently placed next to my HDTV and as far from the nDAC as the Optichord will allow.  I would have to walk through a wall to trip over any cables.  I don't discount the potential improvement by moving the PC to another room and divorcing the direct optical connection.  But until I can find an affordable, worthwhile digital source (renderer) that betters the Juli@ sound card, my system is not changing.

The Touch shows promise as a UPNP device with their new server software.  I have used it with J River with no issue.  But I lose gapless replay and my J River Theater View interface.  Also I didn't notice anything regarding SQ.  Perhaps I am simply trading one Switch Mode power supply for another.  Lastly, I cannot use the Touch's control's to control the playlist at the server.  It is cool anyhow.... 

It is tempting to buy one for use in another area of the house but I find that an existing, unused iPhone3g with PlugPlayer works fine for this application.

Cheers!

Patrick

> until I can find an affordable, worthwhile digital source (renderer) that betters the Juli@ sound card,

Good luck with that search - the Juli@ sound card is just about as good as it gets. 

Exactly my thought. The Juli@ has been around for a while now but I still see it being used in numerous streamers out there.  That or that RME card which is about 3 times more expensive.

I am FULLY willing to try anything though.  If SQ increases I can make concessions in other areas, e.g. control point, GUI, gapless etc...

-Patrick

plan on using

Jriver ->audiphileo2 (usb/spdiff convertor) -> Metrum octave (dac) -> nait 5i -> B&W DM602 s2 (weakest link)

dont think its a mullet

just waiting for the audiophileo that is still somwhere in transit

i can see why people would like all in ones since it can skip the spdiff conversion and the clocking problems that come with it. personally I prefer separate components. Easier to replace if one breaks down or if one wants to upgrade.

Hi Patrick, my bits are quite similar, I use a RME 9632 card and Jriver. Previously I also used a M-audio and a Lynx AES32 soundcard. I think a USB-SPDIF adapter could be a worthwile upgrade without making any of the concessions you mention, I really like controlling Jriver from my Android phone with its Gizmo app.

I would like to try an Audiophilleo once its forthcoming new version will be launched.

I guess you mean it is still possible to use for instance a software like Jriver to play music (streaming to) into a Naim streamer? If this is the case I would really like to try that set up. Nonetheless, in my case I like using Jriver GUI and as Patrick says I would lose gapless replay. Besides I use the anologue input section of a RME soundcard for recording through the tape input of my preamp. I would like to try a Naim streamer though but I am not willing to pay for its DAC section.

SPDIF conversion has to be done at some point in the digital audio chain when using the Naim DAC. Thus a streamer into the nDAC can be seen as an Ethernet-Spdif adapter. Which conversion route is preferable is another thing (Ethernet vs USB).

Yes I was reffering to all in one boxes were the masterclock can be close to the DA converters

this is an interesting read:  www.ayre.com/pdf/Ayre_USB_DAC_White_Paper.pdf

i can see definite advantages for ethernet. cable length  , error correction 

I believe the answer is quite simple. It is a strategic choice by Naim.

Naim has chosen to go the UPnP route of streaming audio.

Support for other means of feeding data into the DAC is left to others.

Only the HDX and UServe support local playback.

I have never liked this choice and am now a very happy user of a MK3 JKenny modded Hiface and have JPlay running on a 0dB dedicated audio PC.

-

aleg

I think providing other inputs such as async usb wouldn't hurt streamer sales... different products for different preferences

JRiver interface is really nice, and because it is also a UPnP server and controller, it works perfectly to control stream to any Naim stream client(s). If this would sound better than a high quality USB to SPDIF converter, it depends on the system, I think...

I wouldn't want to pay for a USB/S-PDIF convertor in a DAC. If it were free and could be disabled then fine, but the quality of the SPDIF out from the new Mac Mini makes this redundant. There is always the Hallide Bridge or V-Link for those with older or other devices. 

I'm very happy with the Naim DAC exactly as it is.  

Perhaps these kind of features are more appropriate to a do-it-all device like the ND5 XS.