Dipping my toes in computer audio...

There is no reason to fear that you will be left behind with computer based audio replay. It is maturing fast and quality for cost improvements have been apparent so far, and no doubt that this trend will continue. If you are happy with your current system then my advice is to bide your time ...

However there is no reason why good quality and inexpensive computer replay cannot be managed today for less than cost of a CD 5i.

Here is my little arrangement, which pleases me very much.

It consists of a silent fan PC running XP and iTunes, feeding an Aune USB DAC [better than co-axial connection in my experience] on the bottom shelf. I used ALAC [Apple lossless codec] to store about 550 CDs in iTunes. Obviously I have kept the original CDS. the "ripping"is the biggest job, but once done the iTunes user interface is absolutely splendid and is easy to configure for your requirements.

Above the PC adio pieces is a veteran Leak Troughline "3" mono VHF tuner, and then the Nait 5i - "italic."

This feeds some Quad ESL 57s. These speakers are so clear and revealing that if there were any flaws in the arrngement they would be made immediately apparent.

A simple solution that works well, and gives great pleasure, even it it hardly consists of famous brandname components,

ATB from George

PS: The whole space is still "work in progress!"

Welcome to the world of computer audio Andrew! I'm new to it too, researched a lot last summer, and jumped in with both feet a few months ago. For me, I chose the UnitiServe and nDAC combo, chosing the uServe for simplicity.  I am happy with my choices.

My guess is that a relatively inexpensive dac like you are mentioning will not live up to the CD5X/FC sound, but the good news is that you can buy that hardware, try it out, and re-sell via Ebay and take a relatively modest loss.

Dear Bart,

The cost of simple DACs can be very low, and spending only a little more, and the results can be very surprising. Though different from his good CD player, a friend of mine could not say for certain [being unable to see which was being used] whether it was my £105 [two years ago] Aune or his high class CD player costing not just ten times more providing the music, and this was on a set based on a 552 pre-amp and suitable follow on of amps and speakers.

There are some big surprises for those who have not experimented with a small budget. I was forced by circumstances to investigate the Aune, because it is USB enabled, and my then PC had no co-axial output for SPIDF. My CD player had broken down, and I needed to find some way forward. The first little USB DAC [even cheaper than the Aune] I tried was so-so, but the Aune has proved anything but ...

Several have been sold on the basis of people listening to music through mine.

So guessing will never show what can be done on a budget, but auditioning [or even simply buying as a potentially small loss punt] can fix the answer very easily.

ATB from George

Thanks George, looking at your pictures it would appear that you don't use your cds player other than to rip your cds? Surely a relatively cheap dac, although maybe excellent value, cannot come close to the sound quality of your cds? Love the troughline tho,use to have one with my leek stereo 20.

Likesmusic,have been looking for both those dacs recently but can't at present find any for less than nigh on £600. Bart,thanks but really wanted to start at a hugely cheaper price,if I were able to spend that sort of money I would ,at the moment, upgrade amp or cdp.

Maybe I should forget the whole thing at this time because would only  try this route if it came close to the sound quality of cdx5 and fc2x?

Dear Andrew,

The quality I get from the iTunes in this most inexpensive arrangement is a great surprise, and it is certainly true that the ultra-revealing ESLs would make any poor source horribly inadequate. I prefer it to the effect I got using a Lavry D10 with a CD transport for example.

Better or worse than a good CD player? A question that can only be answered with an audition, but I am so confident in the Aune's ability to play music well that I have suggested to friends that they buy one and try it. I know two people who have continued to use this very arrangement in their topline Naim systems for computer audio. Of course they have kept their other sources - vinyl, VHF, open real tape, etc., and CD - but they don't find it hard to enjoy the music via the Aune for all that.

For me it is one of my two sources, and it is fascinating to me that though quite easy to tell from the Troughline, it is just as enjoyable for me replaying recordings.

I would not be so daft as to call it the last word, but if dipping the toe in to computer audio, it makes an excellent starting point. It would not put you off, but only encourage you forward!

As for the Troughline - well it is a masterpiece! I would love to have a chance to try the Leak Stereo 20 amplifier between it and the 57s. I imagine that the effect might be very fine, and quite a contrast to the Nait 5i-2, which I really think is superb!

Best wishes for the rest of the Christmas holiday, from George

PS: If you can get to Worcester [UK] one weekend, then you would be most welcome to audition this mosestly priced arrangement if that idea is pleasing?

Hello George -- Yes you are right that "guessing" is no substitute for listening!  And until one listens side by side, or has a very mature ear (which I do NOT have), one can find something quite acceptable regardless of price, I'm sure.  The Original Poster has a nice setup, and can do his A/B comparison at home, and re-sell the hardware he buys if he's not happy with it. For the sake of his bank account, hopefully he can be happy with a dac less costly than the nDAC!

All the best, and Merry Christmas from this side of the pond,

Bart

Andrew

I've been dipping my toes for just over a year now.  Not having a laptop though I went a different route.

My computer front end is a windows PC, i-Tunes and Apple Losseless CD rips stored on a networked HDD in our study.

These are played through my Naim system in the living room via a Sonos Bridge connected to my network in the study and a Sonos Connect (ZP90 as was) in the living room.

I have been delighted with the results, Sonos sets up it's own wireless network and replay of lossless files has been flawless, and have added a second Connect on our family room Roth Music Cocoon (bought for the i-Pod dock which Sonos has rendered redundant) and a Play 3 to replace the radio alarm clock in our bedroom.

Control is with the free App on my i-Pod Touch (or my wife's i-Pad when I can get my hands on it).

SQ is good enough that over the last year I would estimate 70+% of my listening has been by Sonos vs 30-% by CDX2 - convenience and user interface winning over-rifling through 100's of CD's.  Spotify streaming is another major plus point.  Sonos is limited to 16/44 playback but that hasn't been an issue for me yet.

I'm wondering whether 2012 is the year to abandon the CDX2 and fully take the plunge with an ND5-XS - head says yes, heart says no (or not yet).  I may spend another year sorting out a proper NAS and ripping more music.  Even if I do upgrade, Sonos will stay for secondary systems around the home.

Andy   

Thanks for your kind offer George and sorry didn't reply sooner,have been away. I am tempted to give the Aune a go esp. as I've seen two different models for about £100 and £150.Beresford do an evaluation period on their dac so tempting to at least give it a try!

Will also try it with basic (budget) cabling etc and see where it takes me? I find the whole thing very daunting and possibly a little knowledge is a dangerous thing! what with lossless,flac,wav lossy etc etc,nas,twonky,Upnp,makes me want to give up before I start!!

Dear Guy,

As you know several years ago now I ran a Lavry D10 for about a year [if memory serves right], and it was very clear, though as you say it had something of a digital edge to it. This was most obvious on headphones, though the 72/Hicap/140/Royd Minstrels system did tame it a bit.

My current ultra-budget arrangement is actually significantly better, and if any speaker set was going to demonstrate a flaw then Quad ESL are certainly among the prime candidates. The effect is completely lucid, but most of all it is something that has me listening to music more than the Radio Four speech service, for the first time in years.

In a way, I'd be tempted to find what a more expensive DAC might bring, but if it alterred things much, then I fear I might loose the quality I so enjoy in my current arrangement. No doubt that the Aune is a good sample of the type.

I may have the chance to try out a Naim DAC sometime in the New Year, but of course it is beyond my budget, so I wander about the sense of trying it!

What I have never really understood is why people want to use a network and router [etc] for music?

It adds complication, and I do wonder about multi-room applications. Is high quality necessary in most cases, considering the additional complications. For a sort of minimal [I would never describe a computer as simple, though it can be simple to use] system that really does bring pleasure, I cannot think why one needs a server, or streamer or whatever, when you can feed a DAC straight out of a computer with only one cable - USB, Firewire, Coaxial, or Toslink [optical]. Each connection type has its adherents, but the idea of adding into the line a local network seems a complication [with potential reliability issues with each additional component part] for the sake of it to me.

In the bathroom, kitchen, bedroom, workshop or what ever, then in my view radio makes a better companion in any case. For proper listening I find sitting down in comfortable surroundings the only way to actually concentrate on the music in a sustained fashion. Not concentrating does not seem like listening so much as a sort of passive hearing, which to my mind does not require a system of any great sophistication to get good enough results to the task in hand.

ATB from George

Dear Andrew,

Considering the cost, it is hardly a big risk. Some interconnects cost much more!

I use a modified Naim Lavender interconnect [with RCA phono plugs on the source end] between the Aune and my Nait. Between the PC and DAC is a standard USB cable which seems to work fine. I do believe that there are even "audio-grade" USB cables, but have not investigated using myself!

Best of luck with it, and I say, KISS! Keep it simple, and only if you want more do you really need to consider more complication. See my post above to Guy [guido] on this. I reckon that the reason that people are frightened off is becuse computer audio is often made out to be more complicated than it really needs to be!

ATB from George

Dear Guy,

At the price of it, there is a reason why there is no dealer network! I doubt that it has an application for you who is already well sorted out, but those dipping their toes in - so to speak - it makes an excellent entry point, as the cost is very small, and so the risk of a significant disappointment is also very little.

One could take a punt on it without breaking the bank ...

A google search will soon reveal where it may be bought.

On the other hand, it is not an entirely unknown quantity in Forum terms. I am not the only Forum member using one, and several Forum members [whose opinions I respect, even if I don't always agree in some respects] have heard what my set can do. Let's just say that the music replay was fine enough to promote agog and pleasure in spades. One even said that the set would be the end of the road for me, as there was little left to do ... !

You should listen to it one day. You are not far from me, so if you wanted to, you would be most welcome to try it out for yourself one weekend!

Best wishes from George

Dear Guy,

I do agree about auditioning, and even when deciding whether to nail the ESL 57s was lucky enough to be invited to listen to a nice system [Nait XS] with them in. I doubt I would have sprung for them otherwise!

But there is a price level where the risks of disappointment make me more ready to gamble!

Anyway, thanks for your two lovely replies! I would not mind a bet that at its price the Aune actually lacks much in the way of eccentricity. No filtering like you mention of some Chords for example, but there is quite a little modifying hobby with them apparently, changing "op" amps and so on! I cannot be bothered with that kind of thing. If the original concept does not please me then I look for something different.

If I do have a Naim DAC here, you can be sure that I'll post about it. Of course I also need to get some way of gettting the USB out of the computer and converted to SPIDF for the NDAC, but no doubt a little research will show the best current practice on that. The trouble with SPIDF out of many computers is actually the quality of the soundcard. You can get really nice soundcards of course, and these are often startlingly expensive!

Best wishes from George

If you want a low cost 1 box solution have you thought about trying a squeezebox touch?

I find that it works very well and you have the option of adding a dac at a later date.

I just took delivery of a Halide DAC HD.   It is a matchbox sized self powered DAC in a cable.  This unit is the successor of the Devilsound DAC but uses the technology of the Halide Bridge USB-SPDIF.  It is powered by the USB and converts it to 96/24 and then to analog using Gordon Rankin's Streamlength asynchronous USB technology  allowing for playback of high-resolution audio files with ultra-low jitter, which Gordon uses in his more expensive Cosecant tube DAC's.

And the price is right.

The jury is still out on this little unit but it is small and simple, and self-contained.  I have been very happy with the Devilsound, and this is the next iteration.

Andrew,

I have just started into the computer-stored audio world as well, so I may have some experience that is useful to you. Certainly I qualify in the 'idiot' category. If I may say so, your original posting is a bit difficult to understand without punctuation. 

I've been using a CD 3.5, Nait 3 & Neat Mystique 2 speakers. I'm not a Naim geek, so I do not know how my older, entry-level gear compares to yours. However, I expect that a good source will be better on your newer, higher-up-the-scale equipment. 

I bought a UnitiQute and have been streaming my AIFF, MP3 & WAV files wirelessly from my iMac to my router and then wirelessly to the UQ, using Playback as the UPnP server software. UPnP software is required for a wireless connection; if you connect your Mac to a DAC and then to your existing equipment, you should be able to use Apple's Remote app if you have an i-device, or else use your mouse / trackpad on the mac. 

I did try using an Airport express, and the sound quality is compressed and poor. I would not recommend this system.

I also tried a sonos wireless connection, with Bridge and a Connect, but without an external DAC, the sound was weak and thin. My wife and I both noticed it immediately. If you want a wireless connection, the sonos is good but a good DAC will be essential for you, I suspect. 

I am not familiar with the DAC's mentioned here, nor do I know anything about the Squeezebox touch. 

Last night I spent some time comparing my iMac connected to the UQ using an optical/ toslink cable, and then the wireless connection (n-Stream/ Playback). The toslink connection seemed to give a more forward upper end, but I cannot say that it was better. The wireless connection had much better bass impact and dynamics, and a more rounded midrange and vocal feel. Hi-hats and shakers, or other delicate sounds seemed more subdued, with less space around them, through the wireless connection. 

I listened to 'Brickhouse' by Sara K, 'Midnight Sugar' by the Yamamoto Tsuyoshi Trio, 'Lebanese Blonde' by Thievery Corporation, and the Bach Brandenburg Concertos. Finally, I listened to some recordings made with my own band. 

I'm not sure what is required for you to take the plunge, but my impression is that you should be able to get sound that is as good as your current system. It may not be possible to do, however, by just adding a single box.

Finally, I love iRadio- I would not discount it as a really pleasing, good quality musical source. 

Hi George

A friend of mine uses a Turtle Beach Audio Advantage Micro 2 USB to SPDIF adaptor with amazing results. These are advertised at $25 maybe worth a try?

Cheers

Sean