Saint-Saens 'Organ Symphony' what cd version to get

I had a vinyl copy with the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra conducted by Louis Fremaux. This is now available on a Classics for Pleasure cd (£3.97 on Amazon). Always well reviewed and always suitably moving IMO.

Richard

Thanks Richard, not sure if that is the one I will have to go into the attic and check only not well today perhaps tomorrow. 

Wiltshireman,

Around 1990, James Levine recorded a number of relatively low profile albums in Vienna and Berlin of music he is not well known for - one of them a great Saent-Saëns #3 with Simon Preston. Highly recommended!

EJ

I have found this to be rather good.

The Sorcerers Apprentice as an addition at the end is ok - but there are better out there of that track, but as it's a freebie add on not complaining.

Err - SNAP?

It depends what you want or expect.

If you start from the (historically correct) point that Saint Saens expected a chamber organ to be used, you will avoid the kind of recording just recommended by EJS above. You should also run a mile from Karajan's infamous recording with the Notre Dame, Paris organ (badly) dubbed onto what his Berlin orchestra was doing on a separate occasion in a studio hundreds of miles to the East.

To hear what the composer might have expected, try Charles Munch's early stereo recording in Boston, with Berj Zamkochian playing an appropriately sized instrument, available on an RCA Living Stereo CD new from amazon resellers for less than a fiver.

If you want sheer noise, I'm sure that Levine or Karajan in Berlin will impress.

I could not possibly make a recommendation, but I learn something new every day. Thanks Graham for the information!

I once played in the orchestra for this work, in Worcester Cathedral, and the phenomenal power of a very large organ was employed. It was a horrible experience for the basses, as the acoustic of Worcester is - to put it mildly - horrble for loud music, and there being so much resonance all round that it was quite impossible to hear one's own instrument so eliminating the possibility of being sure one was playing in tune. In tune or not it would make little difference as certainly no audience member could hear us either!

I have never seen the value of such music when it is made loud and unbalanced. Perhaps I might the work better if I got hold of Graham's reco!

ATB from George 

PS: This adoption of over-loud performances is also a problem in the organ works of JS Bch. I have frequently been told how fine is a certain recording of a Bach organ piece, only to be dismayed at the complete inaudibility of the inner lines because too large an instrument is being played much too loud, and often in a massively resonant space. I then assume the person who recommended it to me prefers massive sounds to Bach's immense and lucid counterpoint.

Graham, George,

Sheer noise? Levine is slow, possibly self-conscious as is his recording of Sibelius 4 and 5, but have you actually heard this performance of Saint-Saens #3? 'Sheer noise' doesn't begin to capture the beauty that Levine draws from the Berliners...

EJ

Dear EJ,

I have never heard any recording of it! So I am not going to say any recording that I've never heard is sheer noise. My perspective was playing the work three times. In Leominster Priory [good enough acoustic to have been used by DG for John Eliot Gardiner recorded performances] and quite modest sized, but very fine organ, Tewkesbury Abbey [cavernous, but smallish organ], and Worcester Cathedral [more than cavernous, and massive organ], so that the Leominster performance was very fine, Tewkesbury was passable, and Worcester - well who knows? The audience liked though! It was a big exciting sound for sure!!

It worked best in the clear [if long] acoustic with a smallish organ in Leominster Priory. The combination of a large organ and reverberant acoustic mitigated against the music in my experience.

ATB from George

EJ, no, I haven't heard Levine, but I'll have a clue as to how it sounds, if you tell me which organ was used. I can't quite imagine Simon Preston was imported to play something chamber-sized.

There again, I don't imagine that you have the Munch, either!

Incidentally, Karajan's taped in organ may have come from Chartres, rather than Notre Dame, but you get the picture. 

Graham,

Preston was recorded in the Philharmonie, together with the orchestra. I've never been there personally, so can't tell you any specifics on the organ.

Cheers,

EJ

Just thought I should tell you that I could take its absence no longer and have bought a turntable, OH BLISS!!!!! The version I love so much is by the Suisse-Romand orchestra, Pierre Segon- Organ and conducted by Ernest Ansermet. The LP is by Decca - World of Classics label SPA 22B dated 1972 for those that are interested. 

I have several versions of this work. The Ernest Ansermet recording with L'Orchestre De La Suisse Romande and Pierr Segon is a fine interpretation and I have a Japanese pressing on King Records KIJC 9115 in the Super Analogue Disc series.

I have a CD copy of the Boston Symphony/Munch with Berj Zamkochian on JVC XRCD2 JMCXR-0002.

If you want a truly French offering .. and this is the first version I ever bought and is still my favourite... try Marie-Claire Alain (Organ) with L'Orchestre National De L'Office De Radiodifusion-Television Française conducted by Jean Martinon on Erato recorded in 1966. My LP is catalogue no. STU 70631 or the CD version is ECD 55001... this is still available... as are several reamasters of it.

I can't say I've done comparative listenings - but this one is nice. I have on LP. Although, turns out the organ is dubbed in!!! Seemed a bit odd to me. So, if that's a concern, avoid this one:

Just read George's post. Maybe there's a good reason to dub in the organ when recording? They used the organ at Chartres for this recording.  Can't take a listen now, but will try to soon.

I'm going through the recording I have of this work at the moment, I think I have 5 versions including the Barenboin.  Will update in the next few days.

Karl

There seems to exist a CD version of this recording:

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classi...mphonie/hnum/8776498

Hope it's OK to post the link, since the OP asked for it.

This is an Australian release on the Decca Eloquence label ... it is available from various sites in Europe... if you search for it. I have just bought a second hand copy from France for €4.51.

Also on the Australian Eloquence label is a fine version by the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra conducted by Edo de Waart with the organist Jean Guillou playing on the Ruffatti Organ in Davies Hall, San Francisco. Originally issued by Philips. This is coupled with Georges Bizet's Symphony in C and Jeux d'enfants - Petite Suite. Catalogue number 476 7417. The organ pedal notes in the poco adagio second movement are very well captured.

I have found a cd version of the Suisse-Romand orchestra, Pierre Segon- Organ and conducted by Ernest Ansermet and its now on it's way. Thankyou Michael I will try your suggestion.

This is a cracking one. Well done, EJ.

The only other great one that comes to mind is (I THINK)  by Eugen Jochum. Fellow members may have a better memory than me.

Thanks for recommending the Levine version but I have it already and to be honest I do not rate it at all either as a particularly good recording or performance. I will stick to my Decca version especially as I now have in vinyl and cd formats. 

My CD copy of the Ernest Ansermet version arrived this morning and sounds wonderful. It will complement the LP version I have of it.

The symphony is not rushed allowing the listener to hear the threads which are so too often thrown away by quicker performances. The woodwinds have a very "French" sound of the early 1960's and the organ is correctly played as an integral part of the orchestra rather than as a solo instrument, after all this is not an organ concerto. The organ serves to underpin and support the orchestra which it does beautifully during the second movement on this recording. Just the way Saint-Saens intended it.... written for a chamber organ not a huge 100 plus stopped monster! In the final movement the organ has power but does not in any way swamp the orchestra and the final few bars when the organ pedal descends one complete octave to rest on the final chord is perfectly balanced. 

The cd arrived this morning and what a superb rendition is. Though a little 'colder' sounding than on LP it really is a very worthwhile performance and like I have said before it is by far the best (natural?) version I have ever heard. Another thing is that it was recorded in 1963!! Just how far has recording techniques advanced and what could a really competent engineer do today if he really wanted to? It is nice to see you are enjoying it too Michael. Think I may play it all again.

Splendid, Wiltshireman.. enjoy it!