Nas with UPnP for SuperUniti...?

Posted by: deanyoungson on 09 January 2012

HI All,

 

I am new to streaming and new Naim.

I recently purchased a Naim SuperUniti and WD My Book Live Nas.  For the last few days of setting up I have had nothing but issues with the NAS concerning album artowrk and track listings...

 

I have discovered that this is down to the Twonky server within the NAS and even though the problems are minor have decided to return the WD NAS and purchase a new NAS which will not have the same issues (hopefully).

 

I know this has been asked a 1001 times times but can you guys let me know what NAS devices with UPnP built in you are using without problems regarding album artwork and track listings.

 

Im completely lost as to which NAS to buy, as I have said I am a novice and not that technical when it comes to this, I would like a NAS that I could simply plug in, transfer my iTubes folder across to which then streams effortlessly - does such a product exist?

 

I am currently considering the Buffalo Linkstation Pro - can anybody advise about this NAS?

 

Sorry to be such a pain...

 

Thanks

Dean

Posted on: 09 January 2012 by Sloop John B
What makes you think it was the NAS causing the artwork problem? I have Twonky on a qnap NAS and the only (and it's a big enough one) limitation is poor tagging of WAV files. iTunes and its way with cover images may be the problem but as I reripped to FLAC I can't help you here. Nstream has problems with album art above 500 x500 pixels (or some such) Streaming can be groovy but it ain't seamless and there are few plug and forget aspects to it.
Posted on: 09 January 2012 by Guido Fawkes

> I am currently considering .... can anybody advise about this NAS?

 

Vortexbox

Posted on: 09 January 2012 by deanyoungson
Originally Posted by Sloop John B:
What makes you think it was the NAS causing the artwork problem? I have Twonky on a qnap NAS and the only (and it's a big enough one) limitation is poor tagging of WAV files. iTunes and its way with cover images may be the problem but as I reripped to FLAC I can't help you here. Nstream has problems with album art above 500 x500 pixels (or some such) Streaming can be groovy but it ain't seamless and there are few plug and forget aspects to it.

Hi Sloop John B,

 

I was having all sorts of issues when using the WD NAS to stream - no album artwork, low res artwork (apparently Twonky downsizes artwork to 150x150?), some tracks not playing, duplicated songs, and songs not playing at all...

 

On another forum members advise i disconnected the NAS and downloaded playback  to use my MacBook as a UPnP server - now seems to be working perfectly with the exception of one album which i think may be corrupted due to iTunes...

 

I've also read over the last couple of days that Twonky can be a bit troublesome - but as I am a newbie I cant honestly be sure. 

 

I am now on the hunt for a NAS device that works as good as the MacBook/Playback option out of the box...

Posted on: 09 January 2012 by deanyoungson
Originally Posted by Guido Fawkes:

> I am currently considering .... can anybody advise about this NAS?

 

Vortexbox

Hi Guido Fawkes,

 

As stated I only purchased my SuperUniti on Friday and I am new to the world of complex streaming and Naim, can you please shed a little bit more light on the Vortexbox, what it is? where I can purchase it from? and how it works?  will I be able to transfer my itunes library from my laptop to the Vortexbox directly as my CD collection is abroad so ripping is not an option...?

 

Thanks

Dean.

Posted on: 10 January 2012 by adca

If you do not need an additional ripping option, you may also want to consider an AssetNAS Premium (-> www.hfx.at), running Windows Home Server. I did not have any issue with mine. Itunes and AssetUPnP Server (as well as squeezebox) are pre-installed. adca 

Posted on: 10 January 2012 by james n

Whilst the Vortex box is a good Rip / Store / Serve solution its not a lot of point for an existing iTunes library, unless there is something i'm missing ?

 

I would like a solution where i could just use my NAS as a UPnP server for my existing iTunes library where all my music is stored. There are elegant UPnP Mac based solutions that read the existing iTunes library xml file and serve the content (meta data, artwork) correctly (Chorus DS, Playback, Majestic) so at the moment i run a headless mini to do this. Twonky etc is said to be iTunes compatible but in my experience this isn't so.

 

I'm suprised that no enterprising sole has developed a quick and easy NAS based UPnP server that can correctly interpret an iTunes library file. Given the number of users who used iTunes for library management i find this suprising.

 

James

Posted on: 10 January 2012 by deanyoungson

So is there not a problem free NAS with built in UPnP that will work effortlessly with Mac/iTunes?

Posted on: 10 January 2012 by james n

Not that i've found. Yet....

Posted on: 10 January 2012 by roo
Originally Posted by deanyoungson:
I was having all sorts of issues when using the WD NAS to stream - no album artwork, low res artwork (apparently Twonky downsizes artwork to 150x150?), some tracks not playing, duplicated songs, and songs not playing at all...

 

On another forum members advise i disconnected the NAS and downloaded playback  to use my MacBook as a UPnP server - now seems to be working perfectly with the exception of one album which i think may be corrupted due to iTunes...

 

I've also read over the last couple of days that Twonky can be a bit troublesome - but as I am a newbie I cant honestly be sure. 

 

I am now on the hunt for a NAS device that works as good as the MacBook/Playback option out of the box...

Did you configure the IP address of the iPhone/iPad you are running n-Stream on in the media receivers section of Twonky? By default Twonky sends 160x160 art if the media receiver is "Generic DLNA client". I believe Naim are working with Twonky to allow Twonky to detect the n-Stream client but I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for an update to Twonky. If Naim would release the details of the settings required by Twonky the advanced users could add the entry to the configuration file on the NAS. I think I set my iPhone as a Linn Kinsky desktop client to work round the art issue.

 

You need to be careful when choosing another NAS as many of them come with Twonky built in. What version of Twonky did the NAS have? I found I needed at least 6.0.34 for it to work well with my QNAP NAS. I'm using FLAC files on my NAS so my experience may not help you that much.

Posted on: 10 January 2012 by deanyoungson
Originally Posted by roo:
Originally Posted by deanyoungson:
I was having all sorts of issues when using the WD NAS to stream - no album artwork, low res artwork (apparently Twonky downsizes artwork to 150x150?), some tracks not playing, duplicated songs, and songs not playing at all...

 

On another forum members advise i disconnected the NAS and downloaded playback  to use my MacBook as a UPnP server - now seems to be working perfectly with the exception of one album which i think may be corrupted due to iTunes...

 

I've also read over the last couple of days that Twonky can be a bit troublesome - but as I am a newbie I cant honestly be sure. 

 

I am now on the hunt for a NAS device that works as good as the MacBook/Playback option out of the box...

Did you configure the IP address of the iPhone/iPad you are running n-Stream on in the media receivers section of Twonky? By default Twonky sends 160x160 art if the media receiver is "Generic DLNA client". I believe Naim are working with Twonky to allow Twonky to detect the n-Stream client but I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for an update to Twonky. If Naim would release the details of the settings required by Twonky the advanced users could add the entry to the configuration file on the NAS. I think I set my iPhone as a Linn Kinsky desktop client to work round the art issue.

 

You need to be careful when choosing another NAS as many of them come with Twonky built in. What version of Twonky did the NAS have? I found I needed at least 6.0.34 for it to work well with my QNAP NAS. I'm using FLAC files on my NAS so my experience may not help you that much.

Hi Roo,

 

No did not do that to be honest I am really not that streamer savvy...

At the moment im toying between a Buffalo Linkstation Pro which i believe does have a UPnP server but not Twonky and a Live Zen 1Tb Vortexbox CD Ripping Music Server and Player, I really have no idea which one to buy or if they will even work?

 

I cant believe how difficult this is!?!

 

My current setup of MAcBook and Playback is working perfectly, but would like to not have to reply on my laptop and also have a wired connection.

 

I have been trying to contact Naim all today but no luck as yet...

Posted on: 10 January 2012 by mudwolf

Hi all, Thanks for this discussion, I'm learning more than with some other major techno talk listings.  I'm confused too and just getting used to iTunes 10.5 I never experimented with it because my Naim kit was 25 ' away.  Have had to load some CDs on 2 or 3 times because of my mistakes.

HOWEVER< the sound I'm getting thru lossless and WAV is fantastic.

 

My situation is I want to separate my classical albums from my Rock, jazz and pop stuff, so I'd like to put it on a different drive for UPnP but I'm hearing a lot of technical problems that I wouldn't be happy with.  I'll keep reading so keep it up guys.

Posted on: 10 January 2012 by Tog
The beauty of using a dedicated server running Vortexbox is that you can ensure that you have the processor and storage to do the job properly rather than relying on a  relatively underpowered NAS alone.  NAS drives are great a providing storage but they were never intended to act as AV servers.

As for iTunes - Vortexbox provides a very good iTunes server that transcodes flac to wav.

In addition network configuration, management and updates are very straightforward.

Tog
Posted on: 10 January 2012 by deanyoungson

Right, have spoken to the wizards at Naim.

 

They were honest in saying that due to the SuperUniti being relatively new they are unsure which NAS will work best.

 

They listed the below as potential options,

 

QNAP TS 212

QNAP TS 412

 

However I'm reluctant to purchase either of these as they run Twonky and I havent had luck with this on my previous WD Live Book NAS.

 

They also advised Asset Nas was an excellent choice and should pose no problems at all, does anybody have any feedback on Asset Nas, I have found an Asset Nas with Asset UPnP unit for sale but I am a little bit reluctant to plant on £450 on a device I know nothing about...?

 

Finally we discussed the option of Vortex system, Naim advised that this is also a very liable option, again I have seen a 1TB Vortex Liv Zen Music/Server player on a auction website for £320, not sure if I am allowed to post links so wont, but this unit comes with a free subcription to Bliss.

 

Tog - I know you are big on Vortex and I have no experience of it at all would you be able to take a look at it and et me know if you foresee any problems...?

 

Dean

 

 

Posted on: 10 January 2012 by james n
Tog - does the vortex box handle an iTunes created library or do you need to start afresh and re-rip using the box ?

James
Posted on: 10 January 2012 by deanyoungson

The Vortex unit I am considering apparently does...

This is what the seller advised -

 

"Yes, the Zen Music Server will work fine with your SuperUniti. We have two customers who are running it with UnitiQute with zero problems. Your SuperUniti will see it immediately on the network, just like it does your laptop with the Playback software.
Copying your library to the Zen Music Server is very simple: The Zen shows up automatically in the Finder so just click on it, connect as guest and you'll have access to the folders. Then you can simply copy your music from your Mac to the Zen.
If you wish, you can actually move your music library from the Mac to the Zen so the Zen will be the centralised storage location. This would enable you to download music from iTunes directly to the Zen and start enjoying it right away on the Naim. If you'd like to do this we can provide you further help on setting everything up, including a remote configuration session using the Join.me service (http://join.me)."

Posted on: 10 January 2012 by james n
Sounds interesting. I'll be keen to hear how you get on with this one.

James
Posted on: 10 January 2012 by deanyoungson

Im going to give them a ring tomorrow and go through everything to see what they claim before I part with the cash...

 

Ill keep you updated.

Posted on: 10 January 2012 by SKDriver

Have a look on thread below regarding Synology NAS...

 

https://forums.naimaudio.com/di.../lastReply#lastReply

 

 

Posted on: 10 January 2012 by Guido Fawkes
You can just move your iTunes library on to the Vortexbox, no need to re-rip. You just copy the files across using the Finder on your Mac or Windows Explorer if you use a PC.

The Vortexbox just works - I dropped files I had already ripped on mine and it was ready to work with my UQ and Sonos. It can also serve the music to iTunes and a Squeezebox. You can play FLAC through its USB or a sound card if you have one in your Vortexbox build.

You can install a Vortexbox for free on your own PC hardware or you can buy a prebuilt Vortexbox Appliance. You only pay for the stuff you need. Mine is on a Silent PC chassis.

I prefer the Vortexbox to a general purpose NAS, as it is specifically designed to serve music and it is very user friendly.

You can rip with a CD drive on the Vortexbox if you want, but you don't have to. If you don't want to then no need to have a CD drive.

I'd strongly recommend getting an old Intel PC and trying it out if you are interested. The software is free so if you don't love it then you just bin it.

A Vortexbox will not sound better than a NAS nor will it sound worse. The SuperUniti will determine the sound quality. However, use decent cables to screen out electrical noise. I don't mean expensive cables, just good quality ones.

Google Vortexbox and Vortexbox Uk for details.
Posted on: 10 January 2012 by jobseeker

I have to say that my Superuniti is dealing with Vortexbox very nicely, touch wood  I have no Itunes involvement though.

Posted on: 10 January 2012 by adca
Hi Dean
as stated earlier, I have been using an Asset NAS for some time now. Works nicely.
You can simply copy your music files on it and let AssetUPnP do the rest. Or you can start the preinstalled Itunes.
I tested both and preferred Asset.
adca
Posted on: 11 January 2012 by james n

Understand about moving the library but can the Vortexbox serve this iTunes created library correctly. I've found with most UPnP servers, if you just point them at the iTunes music files, yes they will serve them, but not always correctly. Servers that read the iTunes library .xml file serve correctly. Guido - did you actually take a library you had created with iTunes, move it across to a Vortexbox and find all was ok ?

 

James

Posted on: 11 January 2012 by rjstaines

I'm using Netgear ReadyNAS without any problems.  I previously used Dlink with some minor issues.  The real solution, though, dare I suggest, is to get a Unitiserv.  Ripping and UPnP serving all taken care of, seamlessly !   I saw a used one on a site recently (wasn't fleabay), can't remember where, though.   

Posted on: 12 January 2012 by deanyoungson
Yes - I have considered a unitiserve, however am I right in believing I can't move my iTunes folder to it wirelessly or via a wired connection and it can only play it from a NAS? My cd collection is in storage in Hong Kong so there is no option to re rip my music collection... Dean
Posted on: 12 January 2012 by rjstaines

Yes, you're right that you can't move anything on to the Unitiserv itself, but it can use a NAS drive which it can also share with any other music or data files (iTunes included).  So put all the music you have onto a (mirrored) ReadyNas drive, configure a separate Music Store folder on the NAS for the Unitiserve to rip to and voila, all your music is in one place and available to all the players on your network ...and re-rip your old CDs as and when you have the opportunity to do this.  (That's what I've done by the way.)