I have just sold my aging Linn Ikemi CD player and intend to replace it with a digital streaming device, for which I have already set up a NAS and ripped my CD's (FLAC) in preparation.
I have already had number of streamers on home dem and prefer the sund of Naim in my otherwise all ATC system (SCA2 pre-amp and SCM50ASL loudspeakers).
My wife and I found the Linn Akurate at £4.5K to sound too clinical for our tastes and actually prefered the warmer sound of the Naim ND5XS (£1.9K) - despite the price difference. Yes, it was probably slightly more detailed in some areas but certainly not as much fun to listen to, as the warmer and more musical sounding Naim.
We are now comparing the ND5XS to it's bigger brother - the NDX (albeit a pre 24/192 version)
To be totally honest, we are really strruggling to tell much of a difference - which probably speaks volumes about the fantastic sound from the ND5XS
HiFi Choice recently reviewed the ND5XS and wrote;
“It must be said that the £2,995 NDX has the edge over the ND5XS in sound quality terms, but most people will find their performances are very close: there are certainly no glaring night and day differences”
Which actually echoes our findings, supported by another family member, who also struggles to tell them apart.
I must concede that there is perhaps a little more bass from the NDX and at times it probably is very slightly clearer in some areas - but £1K is a big jump, for what in our opinion seems subleties.
Now are we missing something or is the ND5XS simply a stunning machine which gives he NDX a good run for its money (so to speak)?
I also wondered whether the new 24/192 upgrade circuit board in the NDX may improve the sound quality and allow us to clearly hear differences
At this moment in time, the ND5XS seems to be the obvious choice for our ATC system.
However, I would appreciate some opnions from other ND5/NDX users before making the final purchase decision.
Incidentally, we tried the Naim DAC but feel that a streamer is best suited for our needs at the moment
I look forward to seeing comments from other users
I simply have no hesitation in recommending others to audition the ND5 - it's awesome!
Excellent writing guys. May I ask you to comment did NDX have CDX2 sonic signature or is it more ballsy and fuller sounded?
thanks,
oz
Posted on: 11 January 2012 by Mr Frog
Thanks Allen for taking the time to comment
It may simply be the fact that the NDX hasn't got the latest spec 24/192 board fitted (?)
I'm still spending time comparing the ND5 with the NDX and hopefully will hear enough differences to warrant to additional outlay on the NDX
Incidentally, is there anything specific that should be clearly apparent when comparing the two machines?
Thanks again
Posted on: 11 January 2012 by Mr Frog
Hi Oz
I haven't heard the CDX2 but perhaps others may be able to comment
Posted on: 11 January 2012 by rich46
had the nd5 running with the dac with the 5 psu. the final solution has far as im concerned. all it wants is a quiality app for the ipad
Posted on: 11 January 2012 by pixies
Just bought my ND5XS after having it on dem over xmas. It sounds marvelous and fits well with my XS equipment. Not heard NDX to compare but have had CDX/XPS in past and for me the ND5XS lets me enjoy the music to the same level. Can't ask for more. (although I do have the XS power supply sitting in a box upstairs but dont want to connect it as I may think about buying it!) Clever retailer suggested I borrow it for a few weeks - Doh!
Posted on: 11 January 2012 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Hi Mr Frog, I run an NDX albeit with NDAC/555PS into my ATC SCM 19s (via Cyrus mono blocks). I just looooove it! I did find a small but subtle performance lift with the new streamer boards. The difference was more about stereo imaging and increased space around instruments in compressed music. Certainly recommend the new board... I find Allen's point interesting, several have heard subtle performance differences between ND5 and NDX even when used as a SPDIF driver. But one is in territory of diminishing returns, and am sure you would be totally happy with the ND5XS.
To the query about CDX2 tonal signature, I find the NDX (native) very different to the CDX2 other than clearly it has the Naim sound. Simon
Posted on: 11 January 2012 by totemphile
Originally Posted by AllenB:
I can well imagine on some systems you will be hard pushed to tell them apart. Start adding nDAC and outboard PSU's and the gap starts to widen. The rest of your system will determine by how much.
Allen,
Interesting comment there, are you saying that the difference in SQ between an ND5XS & NDX through nDAC/PS555 is more pronounced than on their own hooked up to a PS555?
Thanks
tp
Posted on: 26 January 2012 by Mr Frog
After much sole searching and close listing to compare the products, I simply couldn't justify the additional cost for the NDX (£1000) over the ND5XS - they really are that close
Posted on: 26 January 2012 by rich46
the nds and the 5 digital output will be the same ,feeding into the dac there quality will be the same . waste of 1000£.if the 5 was avaiable loads wouldnt have have the nds
Posted on: 26 January 2012 by Mr Frog
Originally Posted by rich46:
the nds and the 5 digital output will be the same ,feeding into the dac there quality will be the same . waste of 1000£.if the 5 was avaiable loads wouldnt have have the nds
I guess that's progress and developmental improvements in audio technology
The NDX probably has a better PSU and 'superior' circuit board components in some areas and the casework is perhaps better screened, but there isn't a 'gnats whisker' difference in sound quality - definitely not 'night and day' and that's really what counts
Brilliant technological advance for Naim to produce the 'same' sound quality for £1K less
I presume that with the addition of an external PSU and digital output to the Naim DAC, that the sound from the NDX and ND5XS will be definitely the same - because the streaming circuit board is somewhat identical in both units
Perhaps the ND5XS is the new king and certainly "bargain of the year"
Mine definitely sounds absolutely awesome and in my opinion far more enjoyable to listen to than the Linn stuff. To my taste, the £2K ND5XS is superior to the £4.5K Linn Akurate that people seem to rave on about. I didn't like the way it presents music and preferred the 'cheaper' Naim product in my ATC system on a home dem over several days on all types of music.
If the Linn had sounded better, then yes I would have considered spending an extra £2.5K - but it didn't float my boat. Plus, £2.5K is a lot of cash for something that isn't vastly superior ... Emperors Clothes springs to mind!!!!!!! (see my other post)
With the saving I can now look at the Naim DAC or an external PSU and still enjoy the fantastic Naim sound even more.
Any thoughts on whether it's the PSU or DAC which brings the most audible benefits in sound quality?
Posted on: 26 January 2012 by Bart
If one were using the digital output of the ND5 into an nDAC, would the addition of an external PSU upgrade to the ND5 be effective at all?
Posted on: 26 January 2012 by caftan
I am so sad that I didn't try any cheaper streaming products before committing on a NDX on my low end system. I would definitely be happier to save some bucks and not to hear any difference as compared to your system.
Posted on: 26 January 2012 by aysil
Originally Posted by Bart:
If one were using the digital output of the ND5 into an nDAC, would the addition of an external PSU upgrade to the ND5 be effective at all?
Allen had reported that PSU upgrade to NDX/ND5 was effective even when they were used as SPDIF driver. However, PS upgrade to nDAC produces certainly a more significant improvement.
Posted on: 26 January 2012 by Guido Fawkes
> To my taste, the £2K ND5XS is superior to the £4.5K Linn Akurate that people seem to rave on about.
Such ravery amazes me, I preferred the CD5i to the Linn Akurate; I would certainly expect to prefer the ND5XS. Who are these ravers?
Posted on: 26 January 2012 by rich46
my nd5 runs digital into ndac with the new 5 power supply. cant really see how you can better that. ... 555 powersupply cost is silly money i would bet my system couldnt be bettered.
Posted on: 26 January 2012 by Mr Frog
Originally Posted by rich46:
my nd5 runs digital into ndac with the new 5 power supply. cant really see how you can better that. ... 555 powersupply cost is silly money i would bet my system couldnt be bettered.
Hi Rich
Sounds just like the upgrade path I was considering for my newly aquired (yesterday) ND5XS
Did you consider the NDX before purchasing the ND5?
I guess with and external PSU and feeding the Naim DAC, both units produce the same result!
Posted on: 26 January 2012 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Originally Posted by AllenB:
Depends what the rest of your system is. A NDX/nDAC/555PS may well not sound better in your system (which is not profiled). It's all about balance, whilst maintaining the source first principle. It's not about the size of wallets.
+1
Posted on: 30 January 2012 by mudwolf
I bought my ND5 un heard, and have really been impressed. Sold my tuner and my CDX2 and have an open shelf for a UPnP device. I did have the 555PS from the CDP so I'm getting top performance. I've been amazed with the Beatles later CDs, so much going on in the background that I sort of knew was there. I'm infatuated all over again 35 years later.
Posted on: 30 January 2012 by Mr Frog
Yep, the ND5 XS is superb!
To my ears there is no real difference in sound quality between it and the NDX - certainly not night and day. It really is that good.
People talk about it depending on the balance of the rest of your system (presumably to hear the differences) - but since I'm using active ATC50's (which are used in recording studios) and ATC preamp, I'm not really sure what else there is out there that would be more revealing?
So, I'm pleased that I've saved £1000 over the NDX
With the imminent launch of the NDS, I could possibly use these 'saved' funds to achieve the 'night and day' difference in sound quality that I'm seeking.
The ND5XS was never a case of saving funds ..... I just didn't hear a difference compared to the NDX
Posted on: 30 January 2012 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Hi Mr Frog, I am also an ATC fan, you might want to try an NDAC and 555PS on the end of your ND5. You will be amazed, the difference IS night and day in my humble opinion, especially with the resolving qualities of the ATC SCMs. But don't do if you don't have the budget! What you don't know you don't miss ;-) Simon
Posted on: 30 January 2012 by pixies
My ND5XS is also superb!
I have also been trying it with the new 5 power supply for several weeks and for me it has not added a significant upgrade in sound. If anything it has slightly overwhelmed the presentation of some music. I guess it is down to the system that you try to fit it into, but the ND5XS sounds just right within the context of my other XS units. Call it balance, synergy etc? Also with the power supply I have had the inconvenience of trying to locate yet another box, which can we know can get out of hand with Naim! So no 5 power supply just yet, leaving me more money for music (or perhaps a Fraim lite rack or maybe a powerline or 2...Doh!)
Posted on: 30 January 2012 by HTM_1968
I'm just running in an ND5X via an NDAC and I have to say I'm impressed. My major source is an LP12/ARO/NAPSA/DVXX2 and while the streamer/DAC combo don't get close to the Linn, they provide close to the best digital replay I've heard. I own several thousand CDs but have always preferred vinyl. My much loved/used CD3.5/FlatCap have finally been retired. I've tried to upgrade in the past but didn't because (bear with me on this) "it's better but it still sounds like a CD rather than music". The nDAC /streamer combo sounds like music to me, not as good as the LP12, but bloody good for all that.....
Posted on: 30 January 2012 by Manu
FYI, I copy my findings from a few weeks:
I have played with them plus a XPS2 and a XP5XS during holidays. Sources were a CD5XS digital out, USB keys with 16\44 and 24\96, Qute digital out, BD player PCM out. 282, hi, 250, S400
Here are my comments:
ND5XS vs N-DAC no comparison.
But the combo is fantastic.
The XP5XS is a no brainer on the ND5, when you have tried it you can't come back to the bare ND5. I still have to compare ND5 + XP5 to a NDX, but IIRC, quite close.
XP5XS brings certain sweetness to the DAC and some more details. Worth it.
Even with an XPS on the ND5, IMO, the bare DAC slightly win in all departments. Don't get me wrong the ND5 is very good as a DAC and can do things the nDAC can't (streaming).
On the DAC the ND5 win against the Qute in streaming and in digital pass through: more details, better timing, much better soundstage.
Interesting finding with the combo (ND5 + DAC) adding a XP5XS to the ND5 start to makes a difference when the DAC is XPSed. I have not heard any change with a bare DAC. So the power supply upgrade to the ND5XS has an effect on the digital output. I have to try further to analyse the effect and I will try to do the same tests with a NDX.
IMO starting with an ND5XS, the next upgrade is (depending on funds) an XP5SX or a DAC. Yes XPS bring very good things to the ND5, but a DAC will bring more to it for less money. Then an XPS will go to the DAC.
Another test:
IMO, as digital sources feeding a nDAC + XPS2, ND5XS+XP5XS and bare NDX are VERY close. ND5XS alone is sligtly more recessed.
Posted on: 30 January 2012 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Manu, interesting post. Putting offboard powersupply really helps the ndac, it seperates out the digital and analogue electronics to completely seperate powersupplies. If you see a secondhand 555PS (yes i know they are rare) try and get it with the funds you have budgeted for the XPS. Stick it on your NDAC with a Powerline, I'll be very surprised if you are not completely bowled over. Eitherway you will be delighted.
Simon
Posted on: 31 January 2012 by Manu
Simon, is your reply for me?
You know, I just have to take a 555PS off the shelves and try it. I just don't have time for that, it is not a matter of money but time.
But I agree with you the 555PS does magic on the DAC.
