Decisions, Decisions. . .
Posted by: Richard Lord on 02 February 2012
Naim design some superb kit. But apart from the entry level stuff such as the Qute, once you begin to climb the ladder, it is assumed and expected you will progress to an analog preamp based system. Perhaps ending up with the 500 Classics series. Beautiful stuff, but at an eye watering cost.
I bought my existing Northstar Essensio DAC in the hope that after the outstanding reviews that the UniQute has received, Naim would capitalise on this success and bring out a more upmarket version. One that had the same high quality and easily read display, the same high quality remote volume control which is easily readable from across the room, but with their nDAC quality DAC inside. The one that up samples sixteen times, that uses flash memory to buffer and virtually remove jitter. Surely it was a no-brainer to do this? Apparently not. Instead they bring out ever more refined digital products that simply re-invent the wheel; so we see the DAC, NDX, ND5 XS and soon the NDS, I believe. Each able to be further upgraded by adding an external power supply. But not one is able to connect directly into a Naim power amp without a Naim analog preamp, which itself will benefit from the external power supply upgrade. What appears absurd to me, is how wasteful this process is. Imagine the extra cost of adding an analog volume control of similar quality as the one in the preamps. Trifling in comparison to adding the separate preamp and its associated power supply.
Have Naim lost the plot? Let us see, if you have the NDX (or whatever) streamer, its additional power supply, together with the nDAC and its additional power supply, a good quality preamp and its power supply, we are already up to six boxes and we have yet to add a power amp. Contrast that with say a professional quality DAC such as the Weiss DAC202. One box, it accepts digital PCM (via FireWire) from a computer and outputs analog directly to a power amp. One box versus six.
I am reminded of the recent news about Kodak. Remember film cameras? Kodak were synonymous with film, that was what made them rich and powerful. Did you know they invented digital photography? But in fear of the prospect of losing their film sales buried it. Unfortunately for them, they were right. Digital photography did indeed ruin their film sales, but not through their actions, but their non action. Had they accepted the inevitable when they invented it, they might have been able to survive in business, who knows? But they bet the farm on digital staying buried, but it did not. It was taken up by their competitors. Result? They have had to file for Chapter 11 protection from their creditors.
I suggest a similar situation exists within Naim. Obviously they did not invent digital audio, but they appear not to want to embrace digital as an independent system to integrate with their existing power amplifier base. It would seem they are rightly fearful that a high quality Qute might not generate the same level of margin that they have enjoyed in the past from their analog preamps. The digital side of the audiophile market works on tighter margins, just look at how much is being traded over the Net. Dealers are going out of business, all are finding trading conditions tough. But whether or not Naim do eventually bring out an up market Qute (and I certainly hope they will, sooner rather than later), the digital side of the audiophile industry will eventually dominate.
Meanwhile they are losing market share to their competitors. Just look at the number of companies now selling digital DACs of one sort or another. The Naim solution is a good one if you are prepared to spend shed loads of cash and accommodate six boxes of electronics, much of it redundant. Think of the redundant power supplies in the base units before the external supplies are added, think of the redundant engineering with all those metal cases, circuit boards, even DACs. All this is waste, utter waste. Future potential landfill.
There will always be a hard core of pure analog enthusiasts of course. Maybe Naim can survive on these enthusiasts alone. The CD is now virtually obsolescent and if not actually dead it is dying a slow steady death. More and more people are downloading music. This inevitably means it arrives in digital form.
In my humble opinion, many would like to see a complete digital preamp from Naim, a more advanced device that offers the sonic advantages of the nDAC but having the ability to accept a Sp/Dif from a computer and then output directly into a Naim power amp. Simplification, not a word much used by Naim.
I would be prepared to bet it would sell. It may not generate the magin's they have enjoyed in past years, but those days have gone forever. We cannot live on memories alone. To survive a business must adapt. Today the world is very fast changing, too fast for many to keep up.
Naim must adapt or die.
Richard
Like this, perhaps ? You also get a top-notch headphone amp.
That setup is almost exactly the configuration I want Naim to make (but I would like some more inputs, including a couple of analogue ones). As others have said, the nDAC already has a line level analogue section in it. That is what the "A" stands for. At some point, the digital and analogue circuits must occupy the same box.
All I am really asking is that the nDAC be configured (impedance etc) to match the power amps and a volume control incorporated. I don't care whether the volume is analogue or is digital using upsampling to reduce quantization error and digital hash at low volumes, as long as it sounds great. Then I will have a logical upgrade to my SuperNait without getting boxed-in.
there is a point here, if you have the dac as a dig hub ,most will only want a two input pre amp. one for dac and the other for vinyl
Where does the Cassette go 
No electrostatics! Tut, tut! Still working with Kellogg's cones!
Oh dear, oh dear!
Latest technology wedded to steam-age loudspeakers!
ATB from George
Dear George
Have you heard an IonoFane
It just energises the air - no silver foil required - no bass, of course.
I'd love to hear a modern reincarnation of one of these
All the best, Guy
For further indication of where things are going, have a look at Dynaudio's new XEO range, where the amplifiers are inside the speakers. Signal passes wirelessly from a small transmitter ...
... to the speakers. Look Ma, no cables ! :
Eeeeeek! No DIN sockets!
That setup is almost exactly the configuration I want Naim to make .....
Why if Audiolab already makes it?
Do you want a SuperUniti without the amplifier?
Richard said :
If I were somebody with real influence at Naim, I would be truly frightened by your post. Nothing I have said above comes close. I was predicting a possible future scenario, you are confirming it is already happening.
For further indication of where things are going, have a look at Dynaudio's new XEO range, where the amplifiers are inside the speakers. Signal passes wirelessly from a small transmitter ...
... to the speakers. Look Ma, no cables ! :
Another speaker manufacturer that I know well has an identical product in the works.
I'm sure that Naim-Focal R&D are on the case !
Regards,
Jan
Jan,
Have you completed Naim's survey ? One of the questions (IIRC) is whether you want cables between amp-speaker or not. Looks like they are considering wireless connectivity.
Cheers
Don
That setup is almost exactly the configuration I want Naim to make .....
Why if Audiolab already makes it?
Do you want a SuperUniti without the amplifier?
Hi Guido, Are you saying the internal SuperUniti amp sounds to your ears as good as he Classic range, for example the 250 or the 300 or even the 500?
If so, why does anybody buy any of the Classic range? Just kidding, Guido, just kidding. 
Sorry Richard but to my little ears the Weiss 202 isn't in the same league as DACs by Naim, Chord and BAD Alpha. It is as, you say Professional, more for analysing music than enjoying it. I have heard a Weiss 202 directly against the BAD Alpha using a Meridian G08.2 and the Alpha is something else (no contest Alpha wins hands down) - in, but we have to wait to see if this does deliver improved sound.
LOL.
I just hope people try for themselves rather than take this sort of fan boy rubbish as gospel. The 202 fed by Firewire and decent software is a formidable package. Dunno why anyone would want to stick a spdif connected transport on it - why bother, you might as well stick to a CDP. The bare nDAC doesn't get close. I've had both to try. Presumably you agree the bare nDAC isn't that great or you wouldn't have ponied up triple the cost for a 555PS.
The OP's post is pretty much spot on. It's a ludicrous and unnecessarily complex digital strategy. Linn's makes far more sense for a proprietary solution and the Mac/PC route provides more flexibility with the ability to improve aspects of the chain without having to junk or trade the lot.
Ah a reply from the Weiss Fanboy then
Joe. my opinion is not gospel, but it is not rubbish either it is genuine.
All you have done is state a different opinion, which is fine.
I was unimpressed when I heard the Weiss DAC, it doesn't really cut the mustard for me. Hence I said to my little ears the Weiss 202 isn't in the same league as DACs by Naim, Chord and BAD Alpha. The Weiss had more analytical hi-fi sound than three DACs I've listed, and consequently I prefer their more holistic approach. They are in different leagues: perhaps deliberately so - as Weiss focuses on the professional studio market rather than the domestic user, as far as I'm aware. This probably explains its dependence on firewire as you seem to be implying the sound I heard was down to its poor S/PDIF implementation.
I would equally say your opinion is not gospel and I agree with you that people choosing a DAC should listen for themselves.
I used the Meridian G08.2 as a transport because it was there. It is a superb transport. It doesn't have a Firewire interface. The kit was own by somebody else, not me. He asked to me to listen and say what I thought sounded best. BAD Alpha vs Weiss - to me (and him), it wasn't even close, the system sounded better with the BAD Alpha installed.
If you get the chance listen to the Weiss against the BAD Alpha then I think you may just change your mind .... then again you may not if you don't like the Naim DAC. It is all opinion.
And no I don't agree the Naim DAC bare isn't that great, it is a superb unit. It was only the Weiss that, I personally, didn't think was that great, but others should judge for themselves .... James prefers it to his NDX, for instance.
Keep enjoying the music and don't take it so seriously, it is good we all like different things
Sorry Richard but to my little ears the Weiss 202 isn't in the same league as DACs by Naim, Chord and BAD Alpha. It is as, you say Professional, more for analysing music than enjoying it. I have heard a Weiss 202 directly against the BAD Alpha using a Meridian G08.2 and the Alpha is something else (no contest Alpha wins hands down) - in, but we have to wait to see if this does deliver improved sound.
LOL.
I just hope people try for themselves rather than take this sort of fan boy rubbish as gospel. The 202 fed by Firewire and decent software is a formidable package. Dunno why anyone would want to stick a spdif connected transport on it - why bother, you might as well stick to a CDP. The bare nDAC doesn't get close. I've had both to try. Presumably you agree the bare nDAC isn't that great or you wouldn't have ponied up triple the cost for a 555PS.
The OP's post is pretty much spot on. It's a ludicrous and unnecessarily complex digital strategy. Linn's makes far more sense for a proprietary solution and the Mac/PC route provides more flexibility with the ability to improve aspects of the chain without having to junk or trade the lot.
Ah a reply from the Weiss Fanboy then
Joe. my opinion is not gospel, but it is not rubbish either it is genuine.
All you have done is state a different opinion, which is fine.
I was unimpressed when I heard the Weiss DAC, it doesn't really cut the mustard for me. Hence I said to my little ears the Weiss 202 isn't in the same league as DACs by Naim, Chord and BAD Alpha. The Weiss had more analytical hi-fi sound than three DACs I've listed, and consequently I prefer their more holistic approach. They are in different leagues: perhaps deliberately so - as Weiss focuses on the professional studio market rather than the domestic user, as far as I'm aware. This probably explains its dependence on firewire as you seem to be implying the sound I heard was down to its poor S/PDIF implementation.
Responding to your rather arrogant "not in the same league" comment doesn't make anyone a fan boy. Besides I own both Naim and Weiss kit and am well aware of the strengths of either. If you ever see me promoting any brand with your slavish enthusiasm - be sure to let me know.
Your "not in the same league" and "doesn't cut the mustard" rhetoric struck me as lacking credibility. You are talking about a bit of kit that quite obviously is more than in the league of a £2k rival, whether it's your thing or not.
A couple of other points, Weiss are in both pro and domestic audio as I'm sure you know - so again, a disingenuous comment by you designed to create FUD. Just like DCS and others they have enviable reputations in both. There is no difference in the aims of domestic or pro audio design, it is to produce the most transparent DA conversion they can achieve. The Weiss DACs are quite clearly aimed at Mac/PC audio. The clue perhaps being in the name "Firewire DAC".
As for whether the sound you heard was down to "poor S/PDIF implementation or your natural inclination in the absence of the right badge, I really couldn't say. I would have put money on you not liking it if Chord is your bag.
I do know that the Firewire input is what it was optimised for and that is what sounds best to me. I wanted the best DAC I could find for my Mac, again that seems relevant to the discussion on the box count. The nDAC wasn't as good as I needed it to be without adding a 555PS and is quite obviously designed with Spdif Naim sources in mind.
I would always urge people to listen for themselves, maybe we can agree on that.
I am not against Naim. On the contrary I love the sound and I admire their integrity. My purpose was just to be-moan the fact their products seem to have lost their way.
Guido, you seem to suggest the SuperUniti is the answer to my post. I note the SuperUnity has an 80 Watt power amp, but is this of equivalent VA power (400 VA) and SQ as the 250.2? I also note that once again, Naim are suggesting the internal power amp can be relegated to door stopper status by using the SuperUnity's preamp output into a superior external power amp. I suggest there is the answer to my query about the internal amp - Naim are saying it can be improved upon. A wasteful way to spend you money, if you ever intend to upgrade.
So I submit again, that Naim need a dedicated digital preamp. Nay, they need a range of such preamps. The common feature should be no (wasteful) internal power amp. All should have the Qute style of easy to read display with obviously a remotely controllable volume control. But one item that really needs addressing is all models should be capable of accepting the LPCM output from a computer's USB. Mac users who want to connect an external server to increase capacity could then use the independent FireWire connection. It is a good idea to keep these two apart if possible. If an USB connection sticks in Naim's throat for some reason, I suppose an optical Sp/Dif could be substituted. If the internal DAC is of the nDAC quality, maybe this will be unimportant. Perhaps some of the experts can comment on this.
I strongly advocate a direct computer connection, despite protests from some about computer noise. Other brands have succeeded in suppressing it, so why not Naim? Not everybody enjoys the complication of a network. Reading the many posts from Naim users struggling with their network connections reinforces this point. The simplicity of connecting via USB is indisputable. It is cross platform safe and a server to expand storage space is not excluded if such is ever desired.
The number of digital and analog inputs and the quality of the DAC would obviously depend on the model. Three such models would likely be ideal. This range would complement their present analog range. A new Naim customer would then have a choice, the digital route from day one or the analog. Everybody is a winner. The existing NDX range of streamers and the nDAC itself are there for those analog inclined customers who would like the option of digital as a secondary source. The digital customer would still have the option of adding vinyl, perhaps by way of the Stageline or Superline if so inclined. Obviously the present Unity range is still the ideal choice for those wanting a one box, "one size fits all" solution.
Richard