CD ripping - which format?

Another vote for dbPoweramp... up there with Photoshop as some of the best software I have ever used. Just a shame it's not yet on MAC!

Hi, dBpoweramp is actually a suite of programs that install in the dBpoweramp directory when you download the purchased version. You should see a program called batch convert in the dBpoweramp directory? If not i am not sure what you have? Do you just see CD Ripper? But I must admit I thought it used the conversion binaries to create the FLACs, wavs, AIFs etc. 

Batch convert is great in as  long as you are lossless you can convert your entire NAS without re ripping and with no data loss ( and yes I checked this down to the PCM bit level)

Dbpoweramp stores metadata in two forms in wavs. The standardized INFO LIST method based on exif data contructs, and also using an id3 chunk which is valid but not defined in the base standard, but increasingly recognised. This is the same construct used in mp3 ID3v2.

Downsides of WAV is file size.

Simon

Simon

Have you experimented with tun new uncompressed FLAC option?  File size should be the same as WAV - remain with the advantage of FLAC's better tagging.

Gregg

Hi

Care to expand on this and provide some further details.

Thanks

Gregg

I'm currently using dBpoweramp to rip >2000 CDs (FLAC uncompressed).  Can't check the results until I actually receive my NDX.  Just occurred to me today, to have a quick look in the Multimedia Share directory on my NAS, and I notice that the directories seem to be listed by first name rather than surname.  Being a bit anal myself, I would like them to appear in the nStream app by Surname - especially as I can't always remember the first name of some more obscure artists!

So, a simple question ...

Should I change the artist name from e.g. Paul McCartney to McCartney, Paul?   If that is the option I should take, I suppose it means going into LOTS of already ripped files to change the ID tags

The other thing I've noticed about dBpoweramp is that if you change the ARTIST/ARTIST ALBUM field to the main recording artist, and then go into each track (before ripping), and change the ARTiST field there to the main artist + any other artist, then they always revert to just the main artist when actually ripped (if you check the ID tags.  I suppose the only way round that is to enter the tags of each track after ripping.

Don't think dBpoweramp has a concept of first name and surname.  I use first name and then surname but you would indeed need to change the tags to surname, first name if that was your preference (and possibly rename the directories if you care about that - not necessary though as, assuming you're streaming, the streamer is going to go off tags not directories).

I don't know if you've tried changing the tags after you've ripped the CD.  My comments so far have been in respect of the flexibility at the time of ripping.  Once ripped, you can edit tags via Windows Explorer (right click on one or a selection of files, i.e. one track or a whole album) but AFAIK there's no real tag editor app in the dBpoweramp suite.  It is easy enough to amend tags via the file properties but there may be better ways of doing this, that others may be able to advise on, if you wanted to do some bulk changes (like change of genre or changing an Artist name covering, say, ten CDs).

I always set Artist and Album Artist to the same value and apply to all tracks on the album.  Where the tag selection has picked different artists for different tracks you can hit the 'To All' button by the side of Artist and Album Artist.  To avoid the proliferation of Artists in my library, for compilations I always set Artist to "Various Artists" and then put the artist details in the Track Name (e.g. "New Order: Blue Monday") but this won't satisfy everyone.

Don't know if you've noticed but there is a facility to export all tags to a csv (to open in Excel for instance).  Think you need to add a utility codec and then use the file conversion and pick Audi Info rather than FLAC, Wave, etc. If you do this then you can use Excel to filter on the various tags and look for anomolies (missing tags, inconsistent tags, etc.) 

Cheers

Ian

Thanks.  What I really want to know is how easy it is to find the album you want in n-Stream on the iPhone etc.  I'm assuming that this sorts on the first name of whatever string the artist name is - i.e. if it's Elvis Presley, then any albums by Elvis will be found with the E's, not the P's.  I'll no doubt find out for myself when I actually have my NDX installed.  Can't be too long, because it's 2 weeks now since I ordered it.

As I assume you do, I tend to use, "Beatles, The", rather than "The Beatles" in my own database of recordings.  Just think how many "The ..." there would be otherwise. 

Think I'll pose this question as a separate thread to be answered by someone who uses n-stream.

Greg, no I have not tried uncompressed FLAC.

However I choose wav where possible,, as it has metadata support embedded as part of the WAV  standard, has a robust RIFF file system that allows valid systems to parse the wav file even if they do not recognise all the chunks and gives me the best quality with my Naim equipment. The only downside is storage, which isrelatively cheap.

Dungassin, the ability to sort is down to your upnp server, and for me a choice set of meta tags I create for my WAV files. I create my own 'style' tag that crosses different genres, and allows me to quickly home in to the right part of my CD/hidef-download collection.

Simon

I'm really grateful for all of the responses here, which have left me a good deal more knowledgeable than when I began. Just the job of ripping over 1000 CDs to worry about, then.

Paul

(PS Also following the debate over first name, second name with interest. Do I want to enter 'Ludwig' for LvB? Don't think so!)

Ripping my modest cd collection was fun in a way, as it was building a new music library enabling a future of enjoyment.  But it's not the sort of thing one would want to do to many times . . . thus picking a format and storage form that is somewhat future-proof is the goal, at least.

nServe lists all of the "The's" together -- The Beatles and The Who are all under T.

I used to hv Linn Majik DS, and I have ND5 XS now.  I found that FLAC is good for Linn player and WAV is good for Naim.

You might find this article helpful:

http://www.audiostream.com/con...essed-wish-come-true

Thanks, that article does look interesting.

I find it odd that one format should suit Naim, and another Linn, but who knows?

Uncompressed FLAC is interesting, didn't know it existed until today. I wonder what impact this has on SQ when streamed to a Naim streamer such as NDX or ND5XS? Should be very similar to WAV now, since no decompressing at the streamer end? In theory at least...

This thread is so full of voodoo and misbelieve ... and this from seemingly halfway well educated people.

Nobody, except on british high end forms, even considers a sonic difference between wav and flac. The reason being that there is none. I don't have a Naim streamer. Just a Naim amp. If Naim streamers really display a sonic difference between flac and wav, then there is obviously a technical problem with the streamers. Pity really, at those prices ....

If you do not have a Naim streamer, go get one and you will find the different.  Do you think a same spec speaker sound the same?  Welcome to the HiFi world!!!

The music (PCM) in FLAC, ALAC, WAV and AIFF are identical - they are just as identical as from one copy of a CD to another. New Naim streamers will play all these formats correctly. There are no technical problems with any Naim streamer I have heard. I'm one one of those strange folk who believe that identical things are the same. 

I cannot hear any difference between identical PCM - just as I can't tell the difference when reading a document that was simply opened with a word processor from one that was unzipped and opened with a word processor. I accept some folk might hear difference, but I do not understand why and I cannot hear any differences myself. I've not much experience with Linn but if plays FLAC better than WAV then I'm surprised as I thought Linn made pretty good equipment. 

So my view is rip to one of the above - it you download files in any of the above then the NDS or other new Naim streamer will play them (no need to convert them). 

If you play the same CD twice, it may well sound different the second time. This is because you are listening to it using a system and the environment around the system is not constant and nor is the listener. To me this is far more likely to be the cause than a change of file format. 

Just to put in my tup'orth ...

I have been doing my ripping for the NDX using dBpoweramp.  I use FLAC uncompressed.  Can't hear any difference between that and WAV.

That may be the case or it may not. Personally I haven't compared the same file in different FLAC compressions and WAV yet so I am not in a position to provide my own experience. However, there are a number of people here on this forum who have reported that they hear differences between FLAC and WAV and that they prefer WAV. At the end of the day it probably comes down to how revealing your system is and what type of source you are using. More often than not people may not hear a difference and that's fine. You can't dismiss the possibility though that there may indeed be audible differences between compressed FLAC and WAV.

This is what Naim have to say about it in their NDX white paper. I would have thought there is a reason why they mention it.

"Uncompressed audio data will always give better results than compressed. Even lossless compression may not reproduce audio with equivalent quality to the uncompressed original as the processing required to uncompress the data increases the computational load. This raises the power supply noise floor, which detracts from the sound quality."

Fine, I am starting a test. I have now set my server to stream the data as PCM. The conversion process is performed by the processor of my NAS. We'll hear ...