HDX as UPnP server - effect of external power supply?

If it was S/PDIF from the HDX then yes but it would make no difference with UPnP. 

James

Hi Roger, I am not overly familiar with the HDX, but I can state with a high degree of certainty  that unless the current HDX powersupply is faulty adding an external powersupply will make no difference to the upnp server.

You see the UPNP  sender and receiver are completelydecoupled and separated. What I have found can affect the SQ with Naim (although might change with NDS), is the design of the upnp TCP/IP stack if you were to use  non Naim instead of HDX  (TCP windowing and NACK rate) and the quality of your network equipment and RF cross talk quality of your  Ethernet  cables connecting to your audio equipment only. Unless you know how to sniff networks, for point one I would use trial and error methods, but only really noticeable on higher end Naim equipment?. ( I experimented with this on my dealers 5 series setup)

HDX/XPS + NDX/XPS + DAC/555....cant believe people are considering 6 box solution, just for the source!

Thanks Simon for your explanation.  I'm using an Allied Telesyn gigabit switch with the NAS (Netgear Ultra), HDX and NDX all connected with relatively short Belkin Cat6 cables. I take the same care with network cables as with other audio interconnects.  I would assume with this configuration I get a pretty low NACK rate and I leave the windowing to the connected devices.  Having only recently come to grips with solvents, I haven't substituted network sniffing as yet; in fact I'm not sure I have the equipment to do this, unfortunately.  And as for the Naim implementation of the UPnP stack, the recent feedback from the show seems to suggest they got that right !  But again, I quote George Michael... Faith !

So you'd be in favour of going for just NDS/555PS with an HDX somewhere on the network doing its UPnP stuff?   I think I'm with you then, matpip.

Hi Roger, if you are using a Naim upnp server, well you be able to ignore the TCP/IP stack as the systems would have been developed together. And in listening tests we used a Unitiserve and we never heard it sound off compared to a non Naim upnp server. 

As far as network cables, the key item if you are worried is shielded cable (Cat 6 comes in shielded and unshielded types) and you should see shiny metal tabs on the RJ45 connectors. These should ground to your switch, if it supports shielded RJ45 connectors. Other than that I tend to clamp a RF choke on the point of entry into the ND player and as others have also noticed it help improve the attractivess of the resultant audio.

Finally it may seem counter intuitive, but having shorter Ethernet cables doesn't neccessarily improve things. However modern 'green' switches can sense the cable length and reduce the voltage levels on the network cable (thereby reducing electrical noise energy), but it is usually billed as energy saving rather than EMI reducing.

For shielding and screening you should look for these terms.

UTP unshielded twisted pair

FTP foil twisted pair, ie overall cable is shielded, but not seperate twisted pairs. (probably good for use near audio)

STP shielded twisted pair. Each twisted pair is screened, but overall cable not. Good for very high frequency over long lengths >50m - 10Gbps.

S/STP or S/FTP these is shielded pairs in a screened cable

NDS allows you to make it a 7 box source 

Hi Roger,

OT, but as you own HDX and NDX would you mind to have a look here ?

I'm interested to know what setting you use and if you notice any difference.

Thanks

Maurice

Roger......you could also consider replacing the HDX with a UnitiServe if you want to free up some cash. HDX just as a UPnP server may be more than required.

The discussion about the SQ of network cables has been bubbling in the background... you may have started something here Simon !

Thanks for your very knowledgable advice, I have to admit to not giving any consideration to the shielding so far !  Time for a change of focus methinks...

I have both NDX and HDX. The setting used on the HDX is Native. Not tried it on any other setting so cannot comment on diferences.

I do find that the same song played through NDX when streamed from HDX sounds better then when played directly from the HDX.

I read that you also run a NAS. What do you need the HDX for then in the first place?

The idea of the HDX is to have storage and player in one box. It seems you are just using it to run the server software. What a waste. The server may just as well run on the NAS.

When you get the NDS, I wouild sell both the HDX and the NDX plus the DAC and have the NDS being served by the NAS only. I cannot image thet the HDX will add to the SQ if it is just used as a upnp server.

Maurice, I use the default 'native' and was never that curious to try anything else.  I am very happy with the music it plays whether from a FLAC or a WAV source (I have HD FLAC, HDX ripped WAV and some MP3s on my network drive)

Me too.

I'll let you know (hopefully in May)...

I seem to recall that Naim developed their own UPnP software for their servers, so the quality of the code may have an effect on what is heard (little point in doing so otherwise, is there?).  So we're back to the 'which UPnP server software sounds best?' question.

Thanks for the suggestion... funny enough I had an HDX, sold it and got a Unitiserve, didn't like it so sold it and got another HDX.  The server upgrade roundabout has now come to rest for a while!

Why did you swap the US for the HDX ?

Having been saying since 2008 "the HDX is the best thing I've ever bought", all of a sudden I had a half size box with no (colour) screen and no analogue out facility, not that these things are necessary... on top of that it was not producing music the way I remembered the HDX doing... so it had to go.  I know.. NONE of these stand up to logical reason, so don't beat me up over it.  I am, however, very happy with my second HDX-SSD which I use for ripping, UPnP serving and as a backup player should my NDX (NDS) ever need to go back to Salisbury.  

No beating up - just interested in what you were using it for and why you had changed. 

James

If the hdx is connected via cable to ndx which is connected via cable to dac, trhn i assume the boxes are all in the same room, maybe same rack. I was just wondering why not keeping things simple and going to hdx to dac/555 directly, 3 boxes jobs done, i dont see why having a ndx in the middle...so many steps, so many cables. Now with the nds, i think tha nas + nds + 555 should be good enough! Im talking in theory, because never had the chance to heard them...

Pink Hampster touched on a point of interest to me further up the thread:

If I were to trade my DAC for a NDS to use with my existing 555PS, would there be any SQ loss in trading my HDX-SSD for a US at the same time, assuming that I would be using the US as a uPnP source rather than a S/PDIF source?

I am fully convinved that the UPnP source is completely irrelevant to the SQ. Therefor I find Roger's set-up not only overly redundant but acually rather ridiculous.

This also answers the question if trading in a HDX for a US as as UPnP would have negative SQ consequenses; clearly no. The US is rather more still an overkill.

Sounds reasonable - but am wondering if there are material differences in the quality of US rips versus HDX rips. Asking for trouble, probably...

No trouble at all - on the contrary. All rips are the same, if they are bit perfect. And that is possible even with the cheapest notebook.