Recommendation for 24 - 30 port ethernet switch

Im reading this thread with great interest, as im sure many with limited knowledge of networking are, oh just me then

Anyway what id like, if someone can in lay terms, is to understand why i can upload a flac file from my NAS to say my laptop at around 15Mbs. Yet streaming a 24/192 flac file from NAS to my ND5 only streams at around 800Kbs.

The ND5 has a buffer of, it seems, about 2-3 seconds. Surely if i connected it with string it should cope with such a lowly throughput, let alone wirelss or the mains network units??

Or have i completely got the wrong end of the stick, which isnt unusual

Absolutely - I'm exactly the same with BluRay rips which are typically 40Gb+ and so I wouldn't be without Gigabit at home.

What I'm desperately trying to avoid here is someone coming in, reading this thread and getting freaked out and thinking that streaming is difficult ... for example earlier in this thread we have recommendations for switches that are in the £500 - £800 range, switches that have built in firewalls and network protection, suggestions for using managed switches etc. and if I were reading this as a "newbie" to the field of streaming then it would scare me into thinking that it was expensive and complex - something that would only be reinforced if, for example, the reader then went out and bought a managed switch (thinking that was what was needed because he'd read it here), found that he autodiscovery didn't work across it and then had to start delving around in the documentation on his own to work out how to enable multicast on it.

The simple fact that I want to continue plugging here is that streaming audio is easy and doesn't specifically need any specialist kit.

Phil

Streaming difficult? Surely not, I mean only a couple of threads on set up.  

Hi Ash,

it's the first option you depict, but be careful that it may not be simply a network issue, but also a NAS one in terms of what resources (CPU/RAM/...) are being used in that moment.

So if the under buffering is a constant, then probably there is something structural on the network or its endpoints that are hindering the bandwidth, but if it's sporadic or random then it may be caused by other activities on the NAS or the Naim streaming/server components being performed in the background and therefore consuming valuable system resources.

This is from my personal experience FWIW.

All the best.

Stefano

I regularly train installers on our NaimNet products and I promise you that in any room of delegates half of them are confused about something but won't dare stop you and ask simply because they don't want to appear that they're the only one who doesn't understand ... I'm glad you stuck your head over the parapet and said "But why?"

The simple explanation is that your PC transfers the file as quickly as it can from the source to the destination whereas the NDX is reading and playing it a chunk at a time in real time so if it's a five minute track then it'll take just shy of five minutes to read the entire file.

Very good - yes - the NDX buffers around 3 seconds of audio.

Now on a network that is working correctly this is - as you say - more than enough and on your network things are working OK ... hence your assumption that connecting it with a piece of string should cope with such lowly throughput (assuming it's relatively damp string).

The issue occurs with WiFi and Ethernet over Mains when they aren't able to maintain a consistent throughput and this is when dropouts occur ... let me give you an example. I had a customer the other week who was complaining that he couldn't stream his CDs that were ripped to his NAS. They would drop out regularly every 10 seconds or so. After some discussion it turned out that his definition of "hard wired back to the router" meant "hard wired to the homeplug unit plugged into the wall in the listening room and the office where the router is". However he was determined that his homeplugs were fine as his internet Radio worked OK and he was getting 500mbits/sec over the homeplug link. Now, after a bit of convincing I got him to plug his laptop into the far end of the homeplug link and logged in remotely. He showed me the configuration software for the homeplugs which did indeed indicate a 500mbits/sec link speed but when I actually tried transferring a couple of files and timing the transfer then I got 168kbytes/sec which is *JUST* enough to stream CD bitrate audio as long as there are no interruptions to the stream itself.

I then got him to move his laptop and the homeplug unit up to his office and plug the two homeplugs in next to each other - instant 6mbytes/sec which is a lot less than the advised 500mbits/sec but his laptop "only" had a 100mbits Ethernet port and there's a significant signalling overhead on those units (and there was other stuff plugged into the same stripblock etc.) but the point of this is that these units simply cannot be *GUARANTEED* to provide a minimum throughput.

Nope - you're just assuming that these products do what they say on the tin (which is reasonable and what most people would expect to do) rather than knowing that they actually have their limitations and that no matter what the manufacturers say they very rarely turn in the performance that is noted on the box.

Cheers

Phil

It is clear from Billy Rubins opening remark that he wants a wired network for audio and video file transfers. Installing a hidden wired network with wall outlets in an existing building is a pain in the neck, best done once only while you're in the mood! Future-proofing is sensible, the network load will increase with time. You can't have too many outlets, and Cat 5e or better cable is a must.

That is what I have done (and am repeating after a house move). System is based on a single 16 port switch in the roofspace with 3 NAS alongside where they are out of harms way, can't be heard, and aren't occupying premium domestic shelfspace. The router is best not in the roofspace, it needs to be easily accessible for re-start when (not if) needs be.

Irrespective of the techies expertise and tweaks, I have found by experience that, in round figures, a 1 hour PC recorded TV program is 2 Gig and if you want to shift such things around for editing or organisational reasons in minutes rather than hours, gigabyte is essential.

That's a pretty reasonable summary ...

Phil

Further to Phil's comments on HomePlugs.. It is not just about the headline rate of transfer which as is pointed out is often significantly less than advertised, it's also the fact a modern conventional wired network works both way at the same time over the patch leads for efficient effective transfer( which  is technically termed 'duplex'); consider it  like traffic going two ways on a dual carriageway road, albeit with audio streaming one side of the road is busier than the other. However Ethernet over Powerlines typically can only 'send' the data in one direction at once with any effective throughput, therefore think of it as a single track road with passing places. For hidef  audio this is not great solution.

Correct - I thought that might make peoples brains explode tho so skipped that bit.

Phil

Many thanks Phil and Simon-in-Suffolk (you really need to get around more ) and others that have added to this and the other thread thats covering this subject. Its really been helpfull to get a better understanding, and while it has been a plug and play experience for me its nice to get a glimpse of what it happening behind the scenes.

Not sure if its possible but maybe somehow these threads could be taged or linked in some way, as im sure as new users appear this subject will raise its head again.

Anyway thanks to all again.