nDAC-what to expect

Posted by: Kage on 22 March 2012

I'm all sorted on the analogue side and in the process of getting the digital side of my system sorted.

I'm currently running my mac mini into my nait xs. I'm getting a very engaging sound with plenty of detail, but I do find it a little forceful though and it can get fatiguing-especially on modern recordings. The plan is to slot in an nDAC with the relavent interconnects. As the unit is a digital to analogue converter will I experience a softer less forceful sound (retaining the musical and engaging presentation)? Or will it give more of what I've got? Maybe I have the wrong amp. I've been reading the Supernait has a powerful, but mellower sound. It also has a built in dac, although not as good as the nDAC. Could this be a better solution for me. I may try a listen somewhere.

I know I'm probably going over old stuff, but any advice is going to help me.

Thank you.

Posted on: 22 March 2012 by Harry

You have to audition. For what it's worth I found the nDAC to be revealing and detailed, strong on timing and not strained in the upper registers with lots of airy detail. It was a huge step from a CDX2 and HDX and for me involved no sonic compromises. But this was with my amp and my speakers in my room. Sounds even better IMO with XPS2 and at a whole new level again with 555PS. In it's own right it is no slouch. Some don't like the voicing and wider sound stage. I do. But it's your ears that will have to judge. I've never suffered with forwardness or treble emphasis through a number of Naim sources and amps - except sometimes when stuff was warming up and/or bedding in. So strictly speaking I can't give advice on how to avoid a situation I haven't been in. But the nDAC is very musical and not hard to listen to. For me.

Posted on: 22 March 2012 by Kage

Harry

Thank you for your insight. I will do a test at some stage. I feel my set up needs addressing though as I'm connected to my Nait XS from my mac via a mini jack to RCA's. I'm happy using the mac mini as a source, I just need to decide what to send the signal to. mac>nDAC>naitXS>Harbeth C7's or will I prefer mac>sNait>Harbeth C7's. Maybe a ND5XS to work along side my naitXS is a better solution. I don't know of any dealer that stocks naim and harbeth. I'd prefer a home demo, but maybe I could take my speakers to the dealers. Time to get on the phone.

Thanks

Posted on: 22 March 2012 by Pev

Also consider a Superuniti if you are not looking to go on the upgrade trail. Pretty much a Supernait with added streamer and radio.

Posted on: 22 March 2012 by Kage

Thanks Pev. That'll be worth a listen too. I do like the idea of keeping the nait xs though, but I'm happy to give it a go.

Posted on: 22 March 2012 by Jonn

The nDAC could never be described as mellow. It's likely to give you more of what you've got-detailed and forceful so I'd proceed with caution if I were you.

Posted on: 22 March 2012 by fatcat

Originally Posted by Jonn:

The nDAC could never be described as mellow. It's likely to give you more of what you've got-detailed and forceful so I'd proceed with caution if I were you.

The nDAC is an excellent product, it will definitely improve your system. However, IMO cymbals, hi hats and snares are far to prominent in the mix, the main reason I sold mine. Initially I was impressed by the bass and 3D soundstage, compared to my CDS2, but it just wasn't as natural.

If your preferred medium is vinyl, I'd go for the supernait. It will improve the vinyl replay and give you good digital.

Posted on: 22 March 2012 by EJS

You could also try an assortment of cheaper, smaller DACs to test the waters. I jumped in with an HRT USB dac and the sound is quite a bit better than the line out from a Macbook Pro into a 282. Actually it sounds good, although not as juicy, enthusiastic, and real as a CDX2. I suspect (without proof) that the Mac just isn't cut out to be a high quality source so wonder whether an nDAC is worth it just for this purpose.

Posted on: 22 March 2012 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Indeed, but I find although always rather forward, the ndac balance becomes quite natural (and to my ears very agreeable and beautifully engaging and quite analogue like) when coupled with the top of the range naim PSU and a Powerline feeding the aux power. However, I do steer well away from pure silver interconnects with it...

Simon

Posted on: 22 March 2012 by Jay

Evening Kage

I must say I'm not finding a bare nDac forward at all (282/HC/250.2/Allaes). I've had mine for about 4 weeks now and it sounds very natural to me and I think it's actually getting better!

I've experimented with a few transports; MacBook Pro optical out, PC optical out, AEX optical, ATV2 optical, CD player coax and USB memory stick. Overall I don't think there's a lot in them, the nDac does a very good and that's one of the great aspects of the design. If I had to choose the best sounding, for me, it would probably be MacBook Pro, CD player and USB memory stick with the others trailing not far behind.

I was disappointed with the PC via optical but there's a lot of variables there. To me, in this specific context, I found the presentation full of detail but perhaps overly and just not musical (for me). Overall I think a great solution (bar an nServe) is the Mac Mini or such like which can act as a music server and transport. I think I will go that way as I am practically wedded to the convenience of iTunes and variety of Apple products I seem to have acquired!

So you're one step ahead of me and I think your XS will be just fine!

Jay

Posted on: 22 March 2012 by Yippedidou

Mac Mini with USB/Spdif converter into my nDac is my main source for 1 year now. I also have a good USB cable and a not too bad digital ( from the USB/Spdif to the nDac ). If you plan to go the HiRez route, I think this set up is a good one. I have about 100 hiRez albums and frankly, the music is soo engaging. The MacMini gives you the versatility to use different software for replay ( I use Amara Mini ) and the possibility to change whenever something new and better comes up. This is connected to my SN/HC2. I saw a good difference when I added a Hi-Line from the nDac to the SN and a definite big difference when added PowerLines to the SN, HC2 and nDac. In all case, the nDac proved to be superior than the SN dac. Again more airy and wider soundstage. It is true that it is forward ( and I agree that this is mostly shown in cymbals and hit hat repro ) but frankly, I like it and to my ears, in my set up, it sounds very natural. I can listen for hours without fatigue, nothing harsh, smooth and fluid. This will also depend on your speakers. Not sure your speakers that fit in your analog setup will fit in the digital one. As for Cd replay (44.1), personaly, I like the Cd player better. I have a non Naim but even then, it gives a more airy and full sound than the MacMini at the CD rez of 44.1. The CD player is also connected in the nDac. Friends and my son who has a very good ear say the same. So I really think that the benefits of the MacMini/USB-Spdif/nDac set-up is in the replay of Hi-Rez files. The quality of sound is sometimes incredible.

Posted on: 23 March 2012 by Kage

Thanks for all the posts guys.

I feel I should first get all my rips transfered to an external NAS and off the mac. Rip future CD's to the NAS via the mac and also start looking into Hi Res. Then I will consider how I transport them to be amplified. Stick with the mac as a server, into a dac, into my xs. Or keep my mac as a computer and purchase a nd5xs and stream from the NAS into my xs. I could then fit a nDAC at a later date to improve things. Or once I have the NAS setup, look into purchasing a SuperUniti. It may provide the overall sound that I'm after with no need to add all these boxes. I will commence some demo's once the NAS is sorted. I'll know which direction to head in then.

Regarding NAS devices. I was considering the Synology DS212J. Good choice? Better alternatives?

Many thanks for all opinions and advice.

Kage