NDX vs Mac mini vs AppleTV

Posted by: Zinger on 23 March 2012

If your were to assign a score to:

1. NDX
2. Mac mini
3. Apple TV

As source, assuming:

- NDX is a 5 out of 5 (i.e. the best in this comparison)
- Apple TV is a 1 out of 5
- all routed to an nDAC with XPS
- all using non hi-Rez audio files of comparable quality

what would Mac mini be?  I understand this isn't a fair comparison. I'm just looking to gauge where Mac mini falls into this picture ... I have Apple TV, and have auditioned NDX (not at home). Now I am wondering where the Mac mini sits in this stack given NDX is a bit further down in my upgrade path for various reasons.  What kinda SQ differences I will be looking at etc

Thanks
Posted on: 23 March 2012 by MontyMusic
Why assume the NDX will score better than a Mac into a quality DAC?
Posted on: 23 March 2012 by IT

With a decent optical connection to the nDAC they are all 5 . . .

 

Try a proper blind test with the volume matched very accurately.

 

IT

Posted on: 23 March 2012 by DQ

I have tried the following

Apple TV into Naim DAC

NDX into Naim DAC

 

The difference is not small to me.

 

Posted on: 23 March 2012 by james n

Remember that the ATV will resample everything to 48khz.

 

James

Posted on: 23 March 2012 by Guido Fawkes

If your were to assign a score to:

1. NDX
2. Mac mini
3. Apple TV

 

Mac Mini by a country mile - have you ever tried to edit a spreadsheet on an NDX or Apple TV.

 

Oh I see what you mean Mac Mini + Naim DAC/555PS by a country mile then


Mind you what about the NDS  


AS James explains Apple TV does funny up-sampling (how many 44.1 in 48?) - I have one, I tried it with my Naim DAC, it sounds ... well odd. It is fine with YouTube though. 


NDX + Naim DAC/555PS by a country mile as well. 


Mind you what about the NDS  

Posted on: 23 March 2012 by Simon-in-Suffolk

I can't speak for Mac mini, but Applle TV converts everything ( unless you jail break) to 48kHz sample rate, which is not ideal. For compressed files it's ok, but for non compressed lossy files its quite lacking compared to NDX into an NDAC. I currently use both into my NDAC, and I regret to say the AppleTV is highly lacking compared to NDX in creating convinvincing audio replay into the NDAC. I use my AppleTv for films and home movies only now..

Simon

Posted on: 23 March 2012 by Zinger
I am assuming a full 5 for NDX because NDS will be out of my budget. Also, based on various assumptions used in comparing different auditions (I.e. using iPhone into DAC sounded worse at dealer, but better at home. While NDX into DAC sounded better At the dealer than my apple tv, etc) using the same lossless file So I have concluded that apple tv is below NDX. Anyway, so here I am wondering if the Mac mini is a worthwhile move ... Or should just sit still and wait for NDX (budget, time when streaming matures a bit more, ya da ya da)
Posted on: 23 March 2012 by matpip

Guido, can you be more clear? How much better the ndx is compared to a new mac mini, when they both are linked digitally to ndac? Music wise...

Posted on: 25 March 2012 by Guido Fawkes

I have not heard them side by side, but have heard the NDX many times and think that it does an excellent job streaming in to the Naim DAC/555PS. I have a Mac Mini and it also does a fine job. 

 

The Mac Mini has direct access to a hard disk, where as the NDX needs to get the music from a NAS. So they are different. 

 

Which is better? You really need to audition to decide which is better for you. I think adding the DAC/555PS to the NDX makes a big difference. 

 

I chose the Mac Mini because functionally it suited me better; I think the NDS (as demo'd by Naim) was a step-up so I'm prepared to sacrifice some functionality to accommodate the NDS (once it has settled down: I'm not keen on testing it, I'll let other do that who enjoy that sort of thing). As I understand it I can run Asset on my Mac Mini without any need to pay a penny to Microsoft - so I can stream to the NDS from it. As I could also use its optical out too then I don't have to sacrifice much. 

 

If hi-res is unimportant then the W4S Sonos ZP90/Naim DAC/555PS is a superb player too. 

 

The key is the Naim DAC/555PS, which I think is a significant step up from any other Naim digital player I have heard. NDS excepted. As long as you use a decent quality transport to feed the Naim DAC/555PS then you'll enjoy superb SQ. The NDS is the only integrated player I have heard that I thought was even better (I've not heard a Linn KDS, but the NDS as long as it is glitch free will be all I ever need). 


As always I can't tell somebody else what they will think sounds best. There are some well regarded non-Naim DACs that I was taken to task over, simply because I said I didn't think much of them. I still don't and wouldn't want those products, but others like them.


My choice was Mac Mini/Wireworld Supernova 6 optical cable/Naim DAC/555PS and still would be unless you can stretch to the NDS.  

Posted on: 25 March 2012 by MontyMusic

I use a QNAP NAS, Mac Mini (iTunes + Amarra Mini) and USB M2Tech Young DAC for now. I'm happy although I'm curious to hear the NDS+XPS v's HiFace Evo, NDac+555PS......

Posted on: 25 March 2012 by Guido Fawkes

In my view you don't need the M2Tech stuff if you are using a Naim DAC with a new Mac Mini - just go optical between the two with Wireworld Supernova 6. I say this because it will give lower jitter bitstream and eliminate RFI noise. The beauty of the Mac Mini is you can avoid USB altogether. 

 

However with older Macs, MBPs and PCs - the jitter from an optical out even if it has one is not always great and so a device like the M2Tech hiFace can be advantageous. The MacBook Air disappointedly doesn't have an optical out. 


So it is really a suggestion for the new Mac Mini only. 

Posted on: 25 March 2012 by MontyMusic
My Mac Mini is a 2010 model with Optical drive so digital output isn't the best
Posted on: 26 March 2012 by Guido Fawkes

Then hiFace is good choice if you want to go for a Naim DAC. 

 

If you are M2Tech fan then I definitely suggest trying the standard hiFace before plumping for the Evo ... or if you can try a Halide Bridge.


Mind you you have a well regarded DAC, which must be fairly new so perhaps just stay with that until everything settles down. Products seem to be coming and going at fair rate at the moment 

Posted on: 30 March 2012 by novak
The latest low jitter Mac Mini is great - I play Flac files, bit perfect via a wire world supernova optical into my Naim Dac. Sounds amazing and plus you get all the benefits of great user interface, a discreet box (which can be controlled by iPad, screen share on another Mac or on the big TV) and all the added benefits of films, online TV etc.

If its just feeding data into the ndac with low jitter, it's hard to improve, unless you want to spend thousands more, and have a much more complex system, too.

I used to use Airport Express and also apple TV but they were awful. They sounded cloudy and flat, not to mention the annoying clocking problems when partnered with the supernait. Hope that helps.
Posted on: 17 July 2012 by Snait39

Omg, that can not be so difficult, assume that's just me......

Now the macmini is set up.

Connected a optical toslink cable.

How do I connect a toslink to macmini?

Have to use the 3,5 mm to toslink adapter and then in the headphone output?

Thanks again.

Christian

Posted on: 17 July 2012 by Snait39

Sorry false topic.