what's the matter with new dac chips?

Posted by: aysil on 27 March 2012

I just read: "Moving forward into the past, the NDS calls upon the Burr-Brown PCM1704 'sign-magnitude' digital converter chip, which is an expensive and relatively rare chip from the late 1990s". This did not surprise me much because my favorite Kondo DAC is now out of production because they are out of stock of their favorite chip. Many other highly acclaimed DAC manufacturers use out-of-production chips and try to secure stocks. I just wonder what's the matter with newer chips? Are we going to start collect NOS chips as we are collecting NOS tubes?

Posted on: 27 March 2012 by Guido Fawkes

They don't make 'em like they used to. 

 

DAC chips may become a thing of the past, no reason why Naim couldn't use FPGAs and create their own virtual chips - lots of companies follow this approach. I agree if you can still get a good chip then no reason to jump in this direction, but if there is a shortage then the option is there ... 

Posted on: 27 March 2012 by joerand
Originally Posted by Guido Fawkes:

no reason why Naim couldn't use FPGAs and create their own virtual chips

Are the programs loaded onto the chips protected from hacking, pirating, illegal copying, etc?   I'm just wondering whether FPGAs could be easily duplicated or counterfeited.

Posted on: 28 March 2012 by aysil

Afaiu, DAC chips - and FPGAs if they are used for this purpose - are prone to be mixed-signal circuits, with analog circuit components as well as digital circuit components. I guess the analog features of the chip are pretty influencial in the sound quality. May this be true?

Posted on: 28 March 2012 by BigH47

Good job this is the future of HiFi ??

Posted on: 28 March 2012 by Bart
Originally Posted by BigH47:

Good job this is the future of HiFi ??

To be only a little provocative, imho the future of hi fi, due to the financials, is rather murky.  A too small and diminishing market (this is my guess . . . I don't follow the industry close enough and I should as I'm now a hobbiest), an unfavorable ratio of manufacturersroducers, etc. 

 

Naim might have invested millions in an advanced, generation-skipping, best-ever, who'd-a-thunk-it-could-be-done new dac chip . . . . to what end? 

Posted on: 28 March 2012 by aysil
Originally Posted by Bart:

..., imho the future of hi fi, due to the financials, is rather murky.  A too small and diminishing market...

 

Naim might have invested millions in an advanced, generation-skipping, best-ever, who'd-a-thunk-it-could-be-done new dac chip . . . . to what end? 

It is not a diminishing market - thanks to East Asia.

 

Naim has chosen this chip because it IS the "best-ever". New is not always better.

Posted on: 28 March 2012 by Hook

In the TI/BB datasheet dated 11/2011, the PCM1704 is:

 

"Not recommended for new designs. Device is in production to support existing customers, but TI does not recommend using this part in a new design."

 

So, not exactly "rare", as far as I can tell.   Should it be discontinued, then TI will first offer Naim (and everyone else) the opportunity for a "lifetime buy".

 

Hook

Posted on: 28 March 2012 by Tog
Originally Posted by aysil:
Originally Posted by Bart:

..., imho the future of hi fi, due to the financials, is rather murky.  A too small and diminishing market...

 

Naim might have invested millions in an advanced, generation-skipping, best-ever, who'd-a-thunk-it-could-be-done new dac chip . . . . to what end? 

It is not a diminishing market - thanks to East Asia.

 

Naim has chosen this chip because it IS the "best-ever". New is not always better.

Erm ... I think there are some very respected manufacturers that might disagree with the 'best ever" reference and one in particular who has dispensed with dac chips In their equipment.

 

 

It is not really about chips ... It is about what you do with them - Naim are good but let's not get too carried away - new boys on this particular block.

 

Tog

Posted on: 28 March 2012 by aysil

"best ever" was in quotation marks. I wanted to emphasise that the older chip was deliberately chosen for its sonic qualities, not because of "diminishing hi-fi market" or lack of access to newer chips. I know some manufacturers who insist on using even older chips because they are not satisfied with newer chips. It's all about success of implementation, I guess.

Posted on: 28 March 2012 by Gale 401

You can get your chips fixed and it wont effect your No claims.

Posted on: 28 March 2012 by Tog

 
 
Tog
Posted on: 29 March 2012 by Richard Dane

Naim have learned a lot about getting the best from the BB PCM1704 DAC chipset.  They really like it, and it "sounds" great, it works brilliantly with high res files too, so I guess that's why they use it.

 

Naim have never been ones to jump on the latest/greatest DAC bandwagon. The first players still used the Philips TDA1541A 16 bit DACs long after everyone had moved to Bitstream or 20bit Multi-bit DACs.  Naim were one of the last manufacturers to still make TDA1541A DAC'd players.  Simple reason: Naim liked what it did and understood how to get the best from it.

Posted on: 29 March 2012 by Massimo Bertola

And this was when I started to know and love Naim CDPs.

A couple of friends of mine who had an audio store in Torino used to sell Denon CDPs and they also decided to sell Naim, so I had a chance to hear the latest and the best. How I loved the CD3... In fact I bought it, not caring too much for the 20-bit craze of the time.

M.