Apple Mac Mini or Apple TV?? (or LIV Zen!)?

Apple TV is limited to 48Khz only so i wouldn't waste your money here. I've used the Mini, headless in both Mac n Dac and UPnP duties for my iTunes library and it works very well indeed. If you're not iTunes centric then the Vortex box is a great piece of kit for ripping and UPnP serving.

Hi I had an Apple TV and then a MAC Mini.

As i recall it the Apple TV (one with hard drive) was more of a pain as it had to be linked to a computer for iTunes to work and it seemed a bit messy.

I got rid of it and got the MAC Mini (2011 model) as it is a proper computer and stored my music (only) that way, but then it had to be connected to a screen for the way I had my system set up (I think there are better ways of managing it now)

I have since ditched that and have a 

Qnap 212 linked to my Unitiqute, I then access it via naim remote, iPod touch and various programmes on the MAC.

It seems to work OK.

The issues I face are mainly my lack of knowledge of streaming and file storage and the occassional stopping of the Qute which I have no idea why it happens and I suspect if I returned it to the dealer, it wouldn't happen to them.

Overal though very happy with what I think is a fairly simple system through MA RS6s.

I use Apple TV2 because I don't want to buy another computer to sit in my living room.  Unfortunately, ATV2 has its limitations as stated above.  So it's a toss between whether the ATV is merely an intermediary step, or if that will be your longer term solution (i.e. 2yrs+).

For me it's a short term-solution for the time before I'm happy with Naim streamers -- not considering non-Naim products at this point.  In the mean time, it's also great for streaming AirPlay stuff + watching Apple contents without having to leave a computer with a spinning drive in my living room.  The ATV is a great gadget when it comes to functionality + price + convenience/space saving, the Mac Mini would give you more flexibility in the player used -- i.e. you can use more than just iTunes -- and in terms of flexibility for hi-rez files etc.

I personally would stay away from the first generation Apple TV ...

Thanks for both replies. Thats the Apple TV  off the list then, didn't realise it is limited to 48khz and if it has to be linked to a computer, its pointless.

I really wanted to stay away from synology,qnap etc. Need to keep everything as simple as possible, frightened of "TWONKY,UPnP,RAID,DLNA,ASYNCHRONOUS,PARTIONING,CLIENTS,DTC,ETHERNET SWITCHES,VLAN,ETC,ETC.

Looks like mac mini is the way,simple and I understand it!

In my 4th paragraph of opening thread,mentioned Simon-in-Suffolk,should of course mentioned Guido Fawkes as well,both The Guru's of all things streaming!

We run a 2011Mac Mini (Server - 2 x 750GB drives) and are very happy with it. We run the SPDIF optical to the SuperNait. We have the HDMI output hooked to the TV, so it is great for Netflix, random Youtube nonsense etc. Every now and then, we'll even get a movie from iTunes. Music is 99% ripped from CDs and stored on the Mini HD. We use a 2TB USB-connected drive for backup.

We mostly use screen-sharing from Macbooks for control, but also use "Remote" on the iPad quite a bit if we are just playing music.

We also use the Mini to sync to our iPads, iPods and the kids' iPod touches.

We use the $5 "Bitperfect" app for automatic bit-rate and word-depth changing on the fly. iTunes/AudioMidi doesn't do this by itself.

Probably just me, but I never got Plex to work. The OS-bundled DVD player works just fine for the RipIt DVD files.

winkyincanada, will give "bitperfect" a go with my macbook.

Tog...I don't watch dvd's,well I do occasionally, but whatever I get (mini or vortexbox) will  only be used  for iTunes, no other programmes,apps,photos etc.

Hi Andrew, just seen your post... Yes as others have  said Apple TV2 resamples everything to 48kHz. The later AppleTVs are tiny black boxes with no hard disk storagebout come with a certain amount of non directly manageable solid state storage. Sound wise it'to not bad given it's limitation (but not in the same class of a Naim front end)

Your Mac mini will give you more optionsand formats, but do you really want a PC in your livin room? But if you don't mind, Vortexbox as Tog says would be an attractive option.

You also have other streaming solutions like Squeezebox and Sonos, but i am only familiar with Squeezebox, and I was never that impressed with SB Classwould ut others report better results with more later SB products.

Given all this, you can perhaps understand why I went for a NDX!

Simon

The beauty of building a Vortexbox server is that you can both define the spec and install it well away from your hifi.

If you want a more traditional alternative to the nServe connected to your hifi then Sonore make some lovely Vortexbox based servers or you could install it on a Mac Mini*

(*due to Apple's paranoia - installing Linux on a Mac Mini is a bit fiddly and for technical reasons too boring to go into here the mini would need to be attached to a monitor or TV.)

The latest versions of Plex are simply wonderful - iOS clients that allow glitch free HD streaming - Lion based server/player that simply works and an excellent Vortexbox/Fedora version as well. The latest beta will also stream via UPnP to Xbox and PlayStation.

Tog

Simon,when you say "do you really want a pc in your living room",if it were to be a mac mini,it is small enough to be hidden away,and presumably virtually silent. I would still have cdp and tt,but would just use the mini to store my ripped cds on(about 700). I have a squeezebox touch in the kitchen which streams from my macbook. I just don't like leaving the macbook on to listen to music,but really like the simplicity of accessing iTunes and internet music via iPad and iPhone.This is easily done from either kitchen or sitting room and the mac mini could be left with wake on demand.

I suppose the crux of the matter is that  a mac mini is nearly £500 and maybe a lot of money to spend on a storage device for iTunes with the convenience of streaming ripped cds and listening to Radio Paradise? 

The mini would be stripped of everything except iTunes and related programmes (logitech server). I think I would also need to look at the advantages of installing vortex  onto it, but have not looked into it at this stage.So I am not really up to scratch on what its benefits are and what exactly it brings to the party. One step at a time!

I appreciate everyones replies,

thank you, Andrew.

I would not install Vortexbox software on a Mac Mini - I cannot see the point. Vortexbox is great, install it on a server that is good for it or buy a pre-built box. To me installing it on the MM would just be hassle and it is not only Apple that can make really good hardware. 

The above is Quiet PC and works well with the Vortexbox. 

The basic sources of noise from a PC include

• Cooling fan inside the power supply
• Cooling fan for the microprocessor.
• Case fan(s).
• Hard drive(s).
• Other drives such as CD-ROM when they are in operation
• Some Graphics Cards 

The best way to deal with these is eliminate them and there are several companies that build to order.

One such pre-built device is the Naim UnitiServe which runs a Windows OS rather than Vortexbox. I wish it worked like a Vortexbox and wasn't quite so locked down as I'd like to mix rips and downloads and be able to edit tags with tools of my choice. I could not run its Desk Top Client as it won't run on my Desk Top and I don't really want a PC at home. 

The Mac Mini is great when running OS X. It looks very similar to a Sonos box and doesn't quiet blend with Naim kit, but you can't have your cake and eat it. (Black is a nice colour if anybody from Apple is reading this). I would be careful about removing bits of it.

You may want to stop unnecessary services running, but to be honest I cannot detect any difference in SQ when doing this.

Of course, don't install international fonts unless you need them as they take up a lot of disc space. No need for printer drivers or apps such as GarageBand or developer tools such as Xcode.

If doing this I would make a Carbon Copy Clone ahead of any removal so if you remove too much you can always return to a bootable recovery partition or disk.  

I like iTunes, but wish it would play FLAC and it were clever enough to work out the correct sample rate (C'mon Apple you have some the brightest and best software engineers around so surely you could optimise the playback at the click of mouse or tap of an IPad) This where the latest Naim streamers and Sonos score heavily in my book, as they don't impose a file format. They let the consumer choose. Both Naim and Sonos play ALAC, which is as it should be. The consumer should be able to have files in whatever, the player should just play them. The W4S Sonos Connect is a great streamer for a reasonable price - it really depends on what DAC you you use on the end of it, but forget high resolution, as it don't do that. 

Lastly, although I do not like Windows, there is no reason in the right hands that it cannot sound as good as a Vortexbox or Apple Mac Mini. It is almost a transistors vs. valves argument - Naim makes great solid state audio electronics, conrad-johnson does the same with valves - both companies know what they are doing. 

There are a lot of folk hereon who know their onions and can get a great sound out of lots of different devices (PCs, Mac, VBs etc.,) so whichever route one goes there is plenty of good advice.

I would expect the best systems I could put together would be 

1) Mac Mini with OS X CrossOver running Asset UPnP into a Naim NDS/555PS

2) Vortexbox into a Naim NDS/555PS

The only advantage I can see with option 1) is the ability to transcode to WAV, which I keep being told is the optimum format for Naim streamers. The advantages of 2) are you can choose exactly what box you want and it can sit anonymously on the Fraim

Thanks Guido for your detailed reply. Since leaving windows and buying my macbook pro,I am delighted in the simplicity of all things mac! therefore would stick with Apple.

I have since added an airport express and airport extreme base station and accessing the mac for iTunes and radio paradise all over the house just works perfectly.

As I said higher up my choice is between a mac mini and vortexbox. The  advantages of the vortexbox is direct ripping and the 2tb hd storage as opposed to the mini's 500gb . Although for the foreseable future 500gb is enough..I just want to free up my mcp of its iTunes storage and be able to leave a mini or vortexbox on all the time or at least on "wake up on demand". It would be hidden under the isoblue as the dac is at present,and if I got the mini it would be wired to the dac with a supernova 6 (already purchased with your advice in previous threads). At the moment I am running the supernova from the ae to dac and chord cable to naim amp wirelessly from mcp with surprisingly good results.

Presumably I can move my Squeezebox Touch to the kitchen streaming from mini in sitting room via what would be a freed up airport express.

So,it seems the mini is the way to go?

Andrew.