F1 2010

Sniff Petrol cheered me up!

If cheating teams, or those that gave out team orders over the years were kicked out of F1 as a punishment the grid would consist of Hispania.

Tony

PS. EJ is an annoying little twat that blatantly gave team orders for most of his struggle as a team owner.

I still think the thing that wound up people more than the team orders themselves, was how it was enacted. Surly it would not have been beyond the realms of possibility that Massa could have overshot the hairpin or something a little more subtle?
If it was Massa's idea to show what he had been asked to do , then he did it really well.

Don't see a problem with team orders if F1 allows cars to be flagged through; if you are good enough, pass them already!

Re egos, money, bling, the old days; a bit rose tinted, and where does intentionally driving someone off the track fit?

Cheers,
OW

Number one rule; don't take out your team mate.

Leaving Alonso to force his way past the definitely slower Massa would have been a recipe for tears.

Like it or not, F1 is a team sport. Massa did the right thing.

What would have been of greater interest is if things were reversed. Would a slower Alonso (ahead on points) yielded for a faster Massa?

Sundays incident was a none event really. But the fine imposed was the correct punishment in light of the rules.

quote:

PS. EJ is an annoying little twat that blatantly gave team orders for most of his struggle as a team owner.

I totally agree. I shudder every time EJ opens his cake hole. Which is a shame as I really respected his work back in the Jordan days.

quote:

Originally posted by James L:
What would have been of greater interest is if things were reversed. Would a slower Alonso (ahead on points) yielded for a faster Massa?

I don't think he would have been asked to. Massa would have been instructed to hold station.

quote:

I don't think he would have been asked to. Massa would have been instructed to hold station.

Exactly; so would fines be pending in that case? What's the difference? It still goes against 'the rules'. It has to work both ways don't you think?

Point taken - although I do feel that there is a subtle difference between "stay where you are" and "time to swap places".

I used to be an F1 fanatic but my interest has waned in the last five years or so precisely because of incidents like this. As you know the time zone difference for us is a real PITA and you have to have a degree of confidence that you are going to watch a race rather than a choreographed procession and i'm afraid I no longer have that confidence.

Althought to be honest my biggest gripe with the sport in recent years has been Bernie's stated desire to make it a truly global championship by holding races in Australia, Malaysia, Bahrain, Singapore etc. and then insisting these races be held at times suitable to European TV audiences. What about the long suffering fans in places like NZ who have to stay up till 2am in the morning for EVERY European GP? We only had a few that were at reasonable time for us in the first place...

quote:

Althought to be honest my biggest gripe with the sport in recent years has been Bernie's stated desire to make it a truly global championship by holding races in Australia, Malaysia, Bahrain, Singapore etc. and then insisting these races be held at times suitable to European TV audiences.

Watching the F1 on TV in England after a Sunday roast is a long standing tradition that must be upheld at all costs.

I have a PVR so I tape the race, avoid all news, chat forums and humanity in general until the following night.

Doesn't make it right though.

Basically Bernie is saying he wants to turn it into a global sport but all he realyl wants to do is beam pictures into Europe from exotic locations and give the impression that its a global sport while fans in those far flung places get treated like third class citizens.

For far too long Bernie and Max have shown little regard for fans of the sport and some, like me, have gradually lost interest.

Ferrari's behavior was egregious, hypocritical and oddly amateurish. Had Massa's maneuver happened in such a way that it clinched the championship for Alonso or enabled him to be competitive with one race to go while Massa was out of contention then I would totally support it. That would be sporting and I don't think Ferrari would have to instruct Massa to do it. However, with hundreds of points still on the table the championship is anybody's game and such a move was woefully premature. For this Ferrari should be harshly punished, not necessarily for issuing team orders but for doing so in such a crass unsporting way that does a disservice to the fans.

I'm of two minds regarding team orders but ultimately I support the ban because I feel it is really designed to prevent scenarios like at Hockenheim as opposed to being an outright, and frankly unenforceable, ban. The idea that the drivers drive *only* for the team is pure nonsense; if that is so, then don't sell tickets, don't build grandstands and don't broadcast the damn thing. Just go off in the desert and have a rich man's race with arcane rules of interest only to corporations. Like most sports, F1 is ultimately about the fans and the idea that every driver is doing his best to get to the front. If F1 is to continue to be the globally recognized premier sporting event it is, things like "team orders" have to go.

I loved that Schuey move at the end. Left just enough room, and moved away when the grass started. I love controversial F1 incidents.

Tony

quote:

Originally posted by Tony Lockhart:
I loved that Schuey move at the end. Left just enough room, and moved away when the grass started. I love controversial F1 incidents.

Tony

I don't like controversial incidents that could kill someone. The manouvre was totally unecessary, it was too late and the result of faded ability.

I'd withdraw his licence 'til the end of the season.

Schumacher is, and always has been, a danger to all other drivers on the same racetrack, as he relies on other drivers backing off to avoid the dangerous situations that he creates. What skill he once had has evaporated during his years of retirement, and Mercedes should look to replace him immediately with one of the hot young drivers who are now appearing.

And I agree that he should have his licence withdrawn anyway.

So true.

Well past his sell by date.

What G55 said - agree entirely.
Tony - would you have loved the move as much if it had resulted in a (what could have been) fatal / near fatal accident - their wheels were interlocked and we know very well what happens when they touch?
It was just so un-necessary, and downright dangerous.

He knew exactly where little Rubie was, and knew exactly how far to push. Yes, I was gobsmacked when I saw it, but laughed during the replays. And I think Rubie and Schuey would have been a long way from injury if they had touched tyres while inter-locked, as recent incidents around the world have shown. Webber's pilot's licence being a prominent one. Rubie knew exactly what to expect, so perhaps he was trying to make a point.
Funny how all the Senna-praising one week after Top Gear turns into Schuey hate.

Tony

And Brundle's book on F1: The Mafia Years. That'd be fascinating. Rubie is, in general, a gent. I doubt he'll stoop so low.

Tony

quote:

Originally posted by Tony Lockhart:
He knew exactly where little Rubie was, and knew exactly how far to push. Yes, I was gobsmacked when I saw it, but laughed during the replays. And I think Rubie and Schuey would have been a long way from injury if they had touched tyres while inter-locked, as recent incidents around the world have shown. Webber's pilot's licence being a prominent one. Rubie knew exactly what to expect, so perhaps he was trying to make a point.
Funny how all the Senna-praising one week after Top Gear turns into Schuey hate.

Tony

+1

Had Senna been the driver, Clarkson and others, here and there, would be jerking off to it.

I don't think MS has that level of skill it was just good luck, that "he knew exactly where Rubes was".
He has been a danger to himself and every one else since he started. He wasn't punished then and it is now deemed acceptable.

This is what can happen when the drivers are less lucky or skilful.

Brands Hatch Superleague Formula crash

Its a pity the stewards committee have to go thru "the process" and take a number of laps to come to decision
i.e. when MS had finished the race.

At a club meeting, someone makes a decision without the need for TV replays & I bet that incident at a club meeting would have been a black flag.

If MS had been black flagged & quickly like on the next lap, that would have made a long overdue statement to both MS & the others who are increasingly pushing the limits, especially the squeeze out moves on the start.

Didn't MS ignore the last black flag he received?

It's quite amusing how so many concentrate on MS and Ferrari for criticism. Don't forget the errant Williams wheel in the pits and the pitlane collision. Far more dangerous. Were they punished? Well, if they were it wasn't discussed here.

Tony

quote:

Don't forget the errant Williams wheel in the pits

Mercedes wheel!