Academy of Ancient Music - Brandenberg

Maybe worth popping in here Fred.

https://forums.naimaudio.com/ev...8019385/m/4312983737

Hi Fred.

Hogwood's Brandenburgs are amongst my favourites - full of life and vigour. However, they are a very early digital recording and on a full system tend to sound ascerbic and thin to a certain extent. If I remember correctly, these are from an earlier edition of the score than the one usually recorded.

The Pinnock/English Concert versions run the Hogwood very close in style but have a fuller recorded sound.

I think Fred refers to Egarr´s recording with the "new" Academy of AM.

That shows how up-to-date I am :-)

quote:

Originally posted by pe-zulu:
I think Fred refers to Egarr´s recording with the "new" Academy of AM.

One of the many that I have not yet come across, but I am quite content with the three or four versions of each Concerto that I have. This is where the radio is wonderful. You catch some marvelous things sometimes! Sometimes this is enough to encourage an "extra" performance!!

ATB from George

Yes, Richard Egarr conducting from the harpsichord. I'm going to get this recording as the only others I have are on LP: The English Concert/Trevor Pinnock, on period instruments, and Collegium Aureum with "original instrumentation" ... but I have no turntable!

Something I read piqued my interest, that the Egarr AAM recording used a lower tuning: A=392 ... wondering how often this is done.

On the issue of the tuning "A" used here, which does seem eccentrically low at A = 392, this thread link may give you a starting point for further investigation:

Tuning In Baroque Times

Apologies for remembering a thread which I started, many years ago now.

ATB from George

In the baroque A=440 would be anywhere between 325 Hz and 452 Hz.

Pitch wasn't standardized until 1920-1925. This was not universal until 1939.

But modern pianos are engineere4d for A=440, and won't perform as intended otherwise.

The original instruments used in the performance may have determined where A was placed, due to the capabilities of the instruments used.

Standard pitches in the baroque period are detailed in the Harvard Dictionary of music under pitch (#2 - second entry).

If seriously interested in this topic, we recommend "Tuning" by Owen H. Jorgensen, Michigan State University Press, East Lansing, 1991, ISBN 0-87013-290-3.

This is the recording I have. I'm far from a true enthusiast/expert, but do enjoy these once in a while.

quote:

Originally posted by fred simon:


Something I read piqued my interest, that the Egarr AAM recording used a lower tuning: A=392 ... wondering how often this is done.

In the baroque A=440 would be anywhere between 325 Hz and 452 Hz.

Pitch wasn't standardized until 1920-1925. This was not universal until 1939.

But modern pianos are engineered for A=440, and won't perform as intended otherwise.

The original instruments used in the performance may have determined where A was placed, due to the capabilities of the instruments used.

Standard pitches in the baroque period are detailed in the Harvard Dictionary of music under pitch (#2 - second entry).

If seriously interested in this topic, we recommend "Tuning" by Owen H. Jorgensen, Michigan State University Press, East Lansing, 1991, ISBN 0-87013-290-3.

We went to see them in Eindhoven where they performed a couple of Haydn Symphonies, the harpsichord concerto and the famous C-major cello concerto with Pieter Wispelwey as cellist. One of the best concerts that I have ever been to and in a concert hall (Fritz Philips) with exquisite acoustics.

quote:

Originally posted by mtuttleb:
We went to see them in Eindhoven where they performed a couple of Haydn Symphonies, the harpsichord concerto and the famous C-major cello concerto with Pieter Wispelwey as cellist. One of the best concerts that I have ever been to and in a concert hall (Fritz Philips) with exquisite acoustics.

Ah yes...well remembered Mark

I do not have the Adolf Busch recording which I have recently put on my wish list but while I patiently wait for this it is this Richard Egarr and the Academy of Ancient Music on Harmonia Mundi that I have been listening to the most over the past couple of weeks. All things being equal (between performance styles etc), what strikes me as interesting is how within these six Brandenburg Concertos alone you can hear a man who wasn't static or dogmatic in his approach to making music. It is a record which illustrates his connection to the past and yet at other times his advances to the future in new ways. For instance, one can hear elements of a tutti concerto much like a suite with dance movements, concerto grosso, and then even toward the future of a modern concerto (a three movement (fast/slow/fast) structure and solo instruments coming out from the group and standing in the forefront).

The ingenuity and mathematical games are yet another topic and common throughout all Bach's music in varying ways, from beginning to end.

quote:

Originally posted by fred simon:


Something I read piqued my interest, that the Egarr AAM recording used a lower tuning: A=392 ... wondering how often this is done.

The booklet notes, written by Richard Egarr, for this recording are quite informative and part of them may shed some light on to Fred's musing above. The following is a direct quote:

quote:

For our recording we chose to use what is referred to as 'French' Baroque pitch, i.e. A = 392Hz. This choice is suggested by the French-model (indeed French played) wind instruments that dominated Bach's area of Germany at the time the Brandenburgs were written. This has an extraordinary effect on the 'richesse' of sound in the music. It also alters and improves certain usually problematic balances. This was brought home stunningly in Concerto No. 2. David, our superb trumpet player, until our rehearsals had always played this concerto on natural-trumpet at 'standard' Baroque pitch, A = 415Hz. Performing it at this pitch is always precarious. His immediate reaction at having the piece at extra-low-pitch was that for the first time it allowed a much gentler, flexible delivery. The need not to 'blast' obviously resulted in a much happier balance within the quartet of 'soloists'. We also considered carefully the question of the 'Violone', what it is, and in which 'octave' it should be played. There seems no question that no. 2 and no. 6 should be given at written pitch - this we duly accomplished with Judith playing a frette 'G-Violone' (a sort of bass gamba!). For the other four concertos, Judith played her usual Baroque bass at '16-foot' pitch (one octave lower than notated).

On another note, Egarr refers to his personal favorite recordings as be the 1932 Alfred Cortot and two recordings from Casals. I wonder if these are still available or if anyone has heard these?

Regards,
Doug

I used to know some of the Cortot Brandenburg 78 recordings on HMV, and these made it to CD very briefly in the Bach Year [250th Anniversary in 2000], and I found that I did not like them compared to the Busch set we also had on 78s, but then I was 12 or 13 when I last listened to the Cortot set.

I would expect that the Casals set would be easy to find - either new or second hand - on CD and LP. I am sure that they used to be on CBS LPs, though Sony/CBS are quite erratic about releasing great archive recordings compared to EMI or DG.

I was very fond of these in the old days, but eventually began to find them too fulsome and romantic! Many would enjoy them very much I am sure!

ATB from George

Started listening to the Egarr/AAM and I like it very much. Listened to #1 so far.

Besides the lower pitch, which does make for a richer, darker sound, Egarr chose to observe Bach's original chamber concept and has only one instrument per part.

Another decision was to vary the placement of instruments in the stereo field; the first notes of the first concerto were a surprise because the horns are front and center (as in a procession, Egarr explains) strings and woodwinds to either side. The effect of this is that the horn lines become prominent, their syncopated triplets giving a new feel to a familiar tune.

What I also like is that it feels and sounds like truly Baroque music, the result of the period instruments and tuning ... they have that older funk and smoke patina. It sounds more connected to what came before than what came after.

Anyone else besides Doug heard this recording? Really enjoying it.

Fred

I have the Trevor Pinnock English Concert version. Like winky I enjoy these occasionally, I'm no expert though.

This is an "authentic performance" version, ie instruments of the day etc , as the blurb says "if it was good enough for Bach...."

Dear Howard,

The Trevor Pinnock set with the English Concert is rightly regarded as a mainstay and central recording. Full of life, joy and wisdom, it has nothing eccentric about it, and it says something that it has never been out of the catalogue since its first appearance almost 25 years ago now!

It was the set that converted me to the viability of Bach period instruments, and what a revelation that was at the time!

ATB from George

PS: If you enjoy these, then do not overlook the same artists' recordings of Handel! To my mind they are even more successful!

I bought the Pinnock version on your recommendation George, for which I thank you - it's superb.

I'll certainly investigate the Handel.

quote:

Originally posted by tonym:
I bought the Pinnock version on your recommendation George, for which I thank you - it's superb.

I'll certainly investigate the Handel.

Dear Tony,

The Organ concertos with Preston are mint, and the Concerto Grosso recordings [Opus Three and Six] are priceless in their unexaggerated interpretative imagination. Great music that disserves much wider circulation!

You are sure to enjoy these if you like the Brandenburgs! But they are much wider ranging in emotion. Some of the works are tragic in an almost romantic way, and yet only one is abjectly sad! The Concerto Grosso in B Minor from Opus Six, which simply goes from energetic to pensive, and then unresolved despair. Handel knew a bit about life I think! But 99% of the time he so optimistic. Life enhancing indeed!

The performances have a masculine strength that avoids undue point making and yet they catch the moods in the music very aptly. They don't wear out as recordings in the musical sense. They would bear almost infinite listening without becoming twee or inevitable!

ATB from George