Dipping into j***

Great stuff. Good enough to get you into Apple TV and home theater! Thanks for the link.

The best bet is if you can list a few albums that you have heard that you like or maybe even tracks as there are some real experts on here that could point you in the right direction. Lontano on European jazz for one.

quote:

Originally posted by Sniper:

I only have three jazz CDs one of which I can't stand.

I'm interested to know which album you can't stand ... it would help me to point you toward something you can stand.

All best,
Fred

quote:

Originally posted by fred simon:

quote:

Originally posted by Sniper:

I only have three jazz CDs one of which I can't stand.

I'm interested to know which album you can't stand ... it would help me to point you toward something you can stand.

All best,
Fred

Hello Fred,

Well I have 'The In Crowd' - The Ramsey lewis Trio (which a friend of mine scoffed at and said was 'not even jazz')

and The Dave Brubeck Quartet - 'Time Out' ('jazz of the vanila variety' says my expert chum)

My scoffing friend and jazz expert recommended John Coltrane's 'A Love Supreme' and this is the one I can't stand. I got half way through it and vowed never to give it another go. I remember JWM recommending it previously and said it was a prayer as I recall which stuck in my mind and aided the decision to buy - It sounds more like an anguished schizophrenic begging for sanity in the pits of hell in my opinion (Sniper ducks his head and prepares for incoming). I can't ever imagine trying it out again.

Jazz is an acquired taste and can be difficult to get into, a good place is Miles davis album a Kind of Blue, quite smooth and just a wonderful album.

Also try Spotify they have a wealth of Jazz music, actually just listening to some now - John Mayalls Jazz Fusion to be precise.

Hope this helps

Lee

Hi Sniper ... that gives me a much clearer picture, thanks.

In my opinion, A Love Supreme is definitely a prayer, anguished at times, yes, but always beautiful. But it's very challenging music, that's really jumping into the deep end ... not everyone's cup of tea.

With all due respect, your friend is wrong about The In Crowd and Time Out ... The In Crowd is certainly jazz, Time Out is not vanilla, and both are definitely classics. Jazz is a big umbrella, covers lots of ground.

If you like those two, you will likely enjoy one of the most iconic, Kind Of Blue by Miles Davis. I think you'd also enjoy many albums by Bill Evans, and Herbie Hancock's earlier work, like Maiden Voyage (I love all Herbie's work, but he made his mark with the early stuff).

Fred,

Thanks. Yes, I like The In Crowd and Time out. He did recommend I listen to Kind of Blue also so I will track that one down then have a listen to Hancock and Evans. I am looking forward to this as I have become a little bored with music of late and I'm hoping to discover a treasure chest full of hitherto unknown gems.

Cheers

Sniper,.

Good to here you are getting into Jazz. It can be a difficult nut to crack as am sure you are finding and a Love Supreme for example is not a disc I personally would recommend for a new comer. And it does get even more challenging, Coltrane devote Albert Ayler for example!

So what would I recommend, not only for a beginner, but as core recordings for any collection? Well the following is just a small sample and covers most genres in jazz –

Count Basie – American Decca Recording
Ella Fitzgerald - Sings the Cole Porter Songbook
Oliver Nelson – Blue and Abstract Truth
Oscar Peterson Trio – Night Train (my first jazz album and still after 100’s of playing my favourite)
Wynton Marsallis – Black Codes (from the underground)
Dinah Washington – The Swingin’ Miss “D”
Miles Davis – Kind of Blue and In a Silent Way
Bill Evans – Village Vanguard set (or rather indulgently The Complete Riverside Records)
Stan Gets – West Coast Jazz (brilliant hip cover!)
Charles Mingus – Mingus Ah Um
Dave Brubeck – The Great Concerts
The Milcho Leviev Quartet - Blues for the Fisherman and True Blue (Art Pepper live at Ronnie Scotts issued on the Mole Jazz label)
Esbjörn Svensson Trio - From Gagarin's Point Of View
Diana Krall - Live in Paris
Earl Hines – Once Upon A Time

This is only a very small sample and a personal one base on my collection. Hope this is helpful.

Karl

quote:

Originally posted by fasterbyelan:

Esbjörn Svensson Trio - From Gagarin's Point Of View

A modern day classic.

Jazz is as wide as rock music, and has had longer to develop its history.

For me jazz is not dissimilar to bands like Led Zeppelin, bouncy, fun and full of balls, but also with gentle and reflective moods.

For others jazz can be traditional dance, or refined music, not dissimilar from classical quartets, but using different disciplines.

Where 'Free Jazz' like some of John Coltrane's later music went I find as hard to get into as some of the intense heavy metal, or what I believe is call math metal. It was what was possible for musicians to play at the extreme of their talent, but was not music that could easily be accessed without hearing how it had developed from earlier disciplines, and even than may just not be for you.

Dave Brubeck who you also mention is on the edge of the fun be-bop for me, and slightly towards the more classical based jazz. From there you may wish to explore European labels like ECM, of which Lontano is extremely knowledgeable about.

Going a different direction from Dave Brubeck, you get be-bop, hard bop, and cool jazz. As a reference point, much of this jazz is not dissimilar to 70's cop movie soundtracks (which hits two favourite targets for me with one stone).

Artists such as Miles Davis are in the centre of this area of jazz, 'Kind of Blue' is the album I would recommend anyone to try and one of their starting points in jazz, cool, bluesy, and fantastic with a glass of wine after ten at night, although you can pop it one in daylight hours if you feel daring.

Charles Mingus, Thelonious Monk, Art Blakey and early John Coltrane (very, very different, and tuneful), and key artists here.

So if this approach to jazz sounds as though it might appeal, here are a few albums to search for, and very probably on YouTube, or other sample websites.

Miles Davis 'Kind of Blue' (1959)
Charles Mingus 'Mingus Ah Um' (1959)
Thelonious Monk Septet 'Monks Music' (1958) - with Monk, Blakey, Coltrane, Colman Hawkins etc.
Cannonball Adderley 'Somethin' Else' (1959 - I think) Davis, Blakey and Adderley
Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers 'Moanin' (1958)

Bit of a good couple of years those for jazz.

Miles Davis moved on to electric instruments with the gentle 'In a Silent Way' (1968) and into some intense hard music with 'Bitches Brew' (1969) (probably not a good one from what you said though), and even electro funk in the 80's with 'Tutu' (1986).

That doesn't even touch vocal jazz. Some excellent suggestions above too, but remember, the question you ask is not dissimilar to asking what rock/popular music to listen to, and quoting Motorhead, The Beatles and Kraftwerk as examples.

Good luck, you are opening a door to a huge vault of recordings, some you may love, some you are bound to dislike, but there are sure to be some very rewarding discoveries.

quote:

Originally posted by fasterbyelan:
Sniper,.

Good to here you are getting into Jazz. It can be a difficult nut to crack as am sure you are finding and a Love Supreme for example is not a disc I personally would recommend for a new comer. And it does get even more challenging, Coltrane devotee Albert Ayler for example!

So what would I recommend, not only for a beginner, but as core recordings for any collection? Well the following is just a small sample and covers most genres in jazz –

Count Basie – American Decca Recording
Ella Fitzgerald - Sings the Cole Porter Songbook
Oliver Nelson – Blue and Abstract Truth
Oscar Peterson Trio – Night Train (my first jazz album and still after 100’s of playing my favourite)
Wynton Marsallis – Black Codes (from the underground)
Dinah Washington – The Swingin’ Miss “D”
Miles Davis – Kind of Blue and In a Silent Way
Bill Evans – Village Vanguard set (or rather indulgently The Complete Riverside Records)
Stan Gets – West Coast Jazz (brilliant hip cover!)
Charles Mingus – Mingus Ah Um
Dave Brubeck – The Great Concerts
The Milcho Leviev Quartet - Blues for the Fisherman and True Blue (Art Pepper live at Ronnie Scotts issued on the Mole Jazz label)
Esbjörn Svensson Trio - From Gagarin's Point Of View
Diana Krall - Live in Paris
Earl Hines – Once Upon A Time

This is only a very small sample and a personal one base on my collection. Hope this is helpful.

Karl

And I forgot to mention don't be in a rush!

I think that Jazz is really a very difficult genre of music to come to terms for many who really do love other styles.

I used to think that there was something wrong with my musical taste for not enjoying a great deal of Jazz including such famous people as Miles Davies and so on.

I will own to adoring everything that Ella Fitzgerald did, and almost as much enjoy some of the work of Billy hHoliday, but mostly it is individual tracks that catch me among much that I do not enjoy.

Two such are "Take Five," and the "Girl from Iponema."

Somehow, I can enjoy live Jazz recordings far more than "studio" creations as a rule. And a huge amount of it seems to leave me cold. Geoff P will attest to a good deal of generosity and kindness on his part trying to get me going with it, and sadly the favourites before [mentioned above] remained what I really liked after a good deal of effort to find more that I would like as much or even a little bit.

But there is so much great music that it is a a misplaced effort to try to like that which one really does not ...

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by George Johnson:

I think that Jazz is really a very difficult genre of music to come to terms for many who really do love other styles.

Actually, no, it's not. Perhaps for you, which is fine, but not for many others. And I don't see what loving other genres has to do with whether one likes jazz or not.

Best,
Fred

quote:

And I don't see what loving other genres has to do with whether one likes jazz or not.

It might make you realise you can manage without jazz though.

I mean you get the impression from some people,
that liking jazz should be compulsory.

Dear Fred,

I have to add that the people I am saying possibly find Jazz difficult tend to be those who find most comfort in the classics - orchestral musicians, instrumental teachers, school music teachers, choristers, and so on - and not necessarily those who also most enjoy [as I sometimes do] the commercial end of "pop" music. Of course one can only ever speak from the perspective of one's self and those whom one knows best.

As a good friend who was the one time first double bass at the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden said of Jazz - and yes it is derogatory:

"Good enough for Jazz ..."

However, my investigation of a good deal of Jazz may not have produced the feeling that the standards of performance were less fine than the best in the classics, but rather that the music all too often seems empty of emotion for me. Actually rather like all too much modern "classical music," which those who are at least acquainted with it and Jazz also, not infrequently refer to as so much pretentious doodling. I would not go so far, but rather say that I find it lacks any specific emotional meaning beyond often extra-ordinary instrumental virtuosity, which rather goes against what my old bass-playing friend in the Opera House said about it. Though not our main focus, we could agree on the special qualities in the music of Glenn Miller, for example ... Neither of of were musical illiterates ...

However we agreed that for different reasons neither of us would be well employed wasting valuable time trying to like what we did not havinfg tied it, even if for different reasons.

Given the greater part of Bach's choral works, and most of Haydn's chamber music yet to commit to heart, there is absolutely no reason to chase something that apart from a tiny part of it that I already like, I would do well to spend time listening to music and trying to understand it and then to love it, which is so already to my music taste.

Outside the classics I find Rock much less easy to take than Pop for similar reasons …

ATB from George

I have been watching that site all day, screen sharing on my mac mini which is hooked up to my tv + Meridian F80. If you want to learn about classic jazz, that is the place.

http://www.jazzonthetube.com

Not deep in everything but a lot of cool videos. You can watch the Monk and Professor Longhair and really appreciate what the fuss was about. Miles is one of my favorites on vinyl, but all his songs sound the same on video, and seem particularly tiresome on the tv clips. Lots of Blue Note artists as well.

My only complaint about it is that you have to re-set the video after every piece, rather than setting playlists.

Thanks for the many interesting suggestions chaps most of which will be new to me although I am already familiar with some Ella, Oscar and EST (which I like very much). I am certainly going to try the Miles Davies everyone seems to be recommending.

Like George my musical tastes are mainly classical (baroque mostly)some opera and sacred music. I like some rock too - a little prog here and there and some middle of the road stuff like Joan Amatrading or AL Stewart and other contempory stuff like Philip Glass some of which I like enormously.

I might go for some classic/jazz crossover or rock/jazz cross over if such stuff exists although I don't necessarily hold with bastardising the classics (although jacques Loussier arguably gets away with it, leastways I find him tolerable at worst and enjoyable at best - I wonder what George and fred thinks as i seem to fall between their two camps?)

I suspect that I will love some jazz bits and pieces from across the whole spectrum but that I will also be left cold or irritated by much of it but that the few bits I like will make the exploration well worth the effort.

quote:

Originally posted by George Johnson:

I have to add that the people I am saying possibly find Jazz difficult tend to be those who find most comfort in the classics - orchestral musicians, instrumental teachers, school music teachers, choristers, and so on - and not necessarily those who also most enjoy [as I sometimes do] the commercial end of "pop" music.

Ironically, the music that fused with American blues to form jazz was Western European classical music.

Ironically, the music that many of jazz's greatest practitioners so often turn to for ideas and inspiration, besides blues and the American songbook of standards, is Western European classical music.

And, ironically, all the best orchestral musicians, instrumental teachers, school music teachers, etc. whom I know embrace and love jazz as well as classical.

Best,
Fred

Miles Davis - Kind of Blue - This from wikipedia:

'Though precise figures have been disputed, Kind of Blue has been cited by many music writers not only as Davis's best-selling album, but as the best-selling jazz record of all time. On October 7, 2008, it was certified quadruple platinum in sales by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA). It has been regarded by many critics as the greatest jazz album of all time and Davis's masterpiece. The album's influence on music, including jazz, rock and classical music, has led music writers to acknowledge it as one of the most influential albums of all time. In 2002, it was one of fifty recordings chosen that year by the Library of Congress to be added to the National Recording Registry. In 2003, the album was ranked number 12 on Rolling Stone magazine's list of the 500 greatest albums of all time'.

Appetite whetted!

quote:

Originally posted by BigH47:

quote:

And I don't see what loving other genres has to do with whether one likes jazz or not.

It might make you realise you can manage without jazz though.

I mean you get the impression from some people,
that liking jazz should be compulsory.

BigH,

Jazz is such a wide canon of music that I'm sure there is some that you like. Jazz is such an influential genre of music it has permeated most music genres at some point, do you like Steeley Dan? thats a form of Jazz Funk/Fusion.

I myself, and this will not come as a shock to some, I cannot get on with 50's and 60's Jazz which is mostly played around here though I like late period Miles Davis, European Jazz and Improvisational Free Jazz from people like Evan Parker and Paul Dunmall. So its just finding that flavour that tickles your ear.

Litening to this at the moment and Sniper avoid like the plague.





Dean..

quote:

Originally posted by Whizzkid:

BigH,

Jazz is such a wide canon of music that I'm sure there is some that you like. Jazz is such an influential genre of music it has permeated most music genres at some point, do you like Steeley Dan? thats a form of Jazz Funk/Fusion.

I myself, and this will not come as a shock to some, I cannot get on with 50's and 60's Jazz which is mostly played around here though I like late period Miles Davis, European Jazz and Improvisational Free Jazz from people like Evan Parker and Paul Dunmall. So its just finding that flavour that tickles your ear.

Litening to this at the moment and Sniper avoid like the plague.

Dean..

Howard, you do like jazz - a form of - Rippingtons, Larry Carlton, Acoustic Alchemy etc , etc. They are more the jazz equivalent of Celine Dion to me, but they are jazz of a smoother kind. As Dean rightly says, a broad church and another area of music to enjoy and explore along with rock, classical, opera, world, folk etc. Jazz has enriched my listening life no end but I do have a preference for a certain type that I enjoy much more than other areas of the genre. Just like I do with Rock as well.

I favour more recent recordings with a European progressive and often classical/folk bent and even though I often enjoy the recordings from 50's/60's, I now find them a bit dated to my ears. Still I have a lot of them in my collection and at the right mood moment they can be very enjoyable.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Whizzkid:
[QUOTE]Litening to this at the moment and Sniper avoid like the plague.

Ooer just had a sneak peak via their website - pure bubonic to my ears. Thanks for the warning.

Sniper, as you look to explore "jazz" you might want to take a look at this old thread which contains a lot of good recommendations but of a more recent/European flavour and complementary to some of the older jazz recommendations you have had so far.

https://forums.naimaudio.com/ev...=67019385&p=1&cdra=Y

I confess to enjoying the likes of The Rippingtons, Larry Carlton, Kirk Wahlum etc. I would describe their CD output as smooth 'arranged' jazz as for example Fourplay aswell. Basically it sells. but it is really 'background' music as far as I am concerned.

Quite a lot of them are respected musicians who given the chance to 'strech out' in live performance and at Jazz festivals demonstrate they have excellent improvisational jazz chops. A pity then that they have not recorded properly sustained improvisational Jazz presumably as their record labels fear it won't sell. This is where ECM differs as few other labels do in publishing full on improvisational jazz nowadays.

For serious listening I fall back on the period in the 50's and 60's in particular when Verve, Blue Note etc were apparently happy enough to issue a large catalog of improvisational Jazz. The implication is that the generation gap engendered by the 2nd world war was still in effect. To a lot of then middle aged folk Jazz was not too difficult to connect with because their house 'muzac' was off radio which was broadcasting famous big bands and vocalists playing standards from the American songbook as Fred calls it and other compositions cast in the same mould. They went out and bought Jazz.

As Rock took hold and evolved through the many phases that followed as the 'young peoples' music' in the 60's, 70's and 80's the music demands of young folk who have always been the big market for the music industry effectively fully occupied the recording studios and new Jazz recordings sank away for lack of commercial strength. At the same time the connection to Jazz became more tenuous. Though quite a lot of pop recording 'riffs' and solos are jazz improvisations, they aren't heard as such.

Basically I can understand that it is a bigger step to reconnect with jazz for a lot of folk here who have been musically moulded by 60 - 80's music than it was for our parents generation.

My 'connection' came about when I gained a love of Jazz because of a brief involvement with a student jazz group we got together in the late 50's and a local Jazz lover who ran what was really a Jazz record store and would let us hang out and listen to whatever he was playing, providing potted insights into the musicians as we listened. That has stayed with me and I find Jazz easy to enjoy, though I do not really get some of the radical free form stuff.

I am now tackling classical music and finding a connection that was not there 20 years ago so that is the other element. Our musical ear matures and we better understand the naunces we come to like a wider range of music.

It is certainly worth the effort to give a 'new' music genre a proper chance. Finding that first recording that you connect with can lead to a quite rapid broadening of appreciation. With Jazz as with classical it is huge door opening before you if you can turn the handle.

Regards
Geoff
..who a little while ago was listening Claudio Arrau playing Liszt Piano Concerto No 2 and is now listening to Dexter Gordon blow on his recording 'GO'

As Lontano says I'm more than happy to listen to and buy output from The Rippingtons. Fourplay, Larry Carlton, Lee Ritenour and the like.
Where I struggle is when, the guitars (and pianos) are replaced with potentially "squeaky" instruments and are taken to the limit or beyond.

Rock/prog just gives me what I want,I'll still look over the wall occasionally.