I know very little about jazz. I only have three jazz CDs one of which I can't stand. I am sure there must be some great jazz out there that I would love but I don't know where to start so I have subscribed to a service whereby I get a daily email with a link to some jazz on youtube and it is working out rather well. A daily dip into jazz.
I have to add that the people I am saying possibly find Jazz difficult tend to be those who find most comfort in the classics - orchestral musicians, instrumental teachers, school music teachers, choristers, and so on - and not necessarily those who also most enjoy [as I sometimes do] the commercial end of "pop" music.
Ironically, the music that fused with American blues to form jazz was Western European classical music.
Ironically, the music that many of jazz's greatest practitioners so often turn to for ideas and inspiration, besides blues and the American songbook of standards, is Western European classical music.
And, ironically, all the best orchestral musicians, instrumental teachers, school music teachers, etc. whom I know embrace and love jazz as well as classical.
Best, Fred
Dear Fred,
I do know the history of the emergence of Jazz from "blues" roots and so on, and it may be interesting to note that this development was largely occurred in the USA, which may explain a different attitude to it among classical musicians and teachers in the USA and the UK ...
Of all the bass players I know, and no instrument in the orchestra is more likely to be involved in both styles [classical and Jazz], only one was a full-blown Jazz enthusiast and practitioner! His orchestral style was influenced and we all dreaded sharing a stand with him! He would never wait for a solitary pizzicato! He felt the need to "push" the rhythm and that was something that made stylish and well together ensemble very difficult! At such moments there is a very great need to either take the lead from the conductor or orchestral leader, and thus "place" the rhythm rather than "push" it, and this was precisely where the comment, "good enough for Jazz" came from!
Mind you Elgar was fascinated by Jazz, though unlike Ravel for example he never thought that he could graft Jazzy elements into his own music. He felt that the whole style was totally alien to his own, though he was quite enthusiastic about Jazz, and commented that the "gramophone" allowed the new style of "Jazz and Blues" to be listened to and studied in Britain [speech made at the opening of the HMV record store in Oxford Street in London], and this was but one benefit of the then burgeoning recording industry.
I suppose the Jazz I have most pleasure from tends to be that very early style, before it became ultra-complicated, like modern classical music!
Oh and the Songbook phenomenon such as Ella Fitzgerald brought forward so successfully on records ...
ATB from George
Posted on: 27 December 2010 by Max Bass
quote:
Originally posted by Sniper: Thanks for the many interesting suggestions . . . Like George my musical tastes are mainly classical (baroque mostly)some opera and sacred music.
Sniper, based on this bit of info you could give the Modern Jazz Quartet a try. Made up of all time great jazz masters, the group's sound is what I would descripe as the closest thing to classical and/or chamber jazz, and yet also grounded in bebop. There are some really great compositions, improvisory solo work, and all very accessible.
There are many good recordings available, a few with orchestras, but the one album I'd like to recommend is "The Complete Last Concert". Great, great stuff!
One last thing . . . jazz can be many things, with many different genres to explore. So many great, classic albums out there to discover. If a particular album doesn't work out, try something else (no pun intended). But by all means, do try some of the many different flavors available before making any kind of judgement, and by all means - enjoy the journey!
Best, Max
Posted on: 27 December 2010 by GraemeH
quote:
Originally posted by George Johnson:
quote:
Originally posted by fred simon:
quote:
Originally posted by George Johnson:
I have to add that the people I am saying possibly find Jazz difficult tend to be those who find most comfort in the classics - orchestral musicians, instrumental teachers, school music teachers, choristers, and so on - and not necessarily those who also most enjoy [as I sometimes do] the commercial end of "pop" music.
Ironically, the music that fused with American blues to form jazz was Western European classical music.
Ironically, the music that many of jazz's greatest practitioners so often turn to for ideas and inspiration, besides blues and the American songbook of standards, is Western European classical music.
And, ironically, all the best orchestral musicians, instrumental teachers, school music teachers, etc. whom I know embrace and love jazz as well as classical.
Best, Fred
Dear Fred,
I do know the history of the emergence of Jazz from "blues" roots and so on, and it may be interesting to note that this development was largely occurred in the USA, which may explain a different attitude to it among classical musicians and teachers in the USA and the UK ...
Of all the bass players I know, and no instrument in the orchestra is more likely to be involved in both styles [classical and Jazz], only one was a full-blown Jazz enthusiast and practitioner! His orchestral style was influenced and we all dreaded sharing a stand with him! He would never wait for a solitary pizzicato! He felt the need to "push" the rhythm and that was something that made stylish and well together ensemble very difficult! At such moments there is a very great need to either take the lead from the conductor or orchestral leader, and thus "place" the rhythm rather than "push" it, and this was precisely where the comment, "good enough for Jazz" came from!
Mind you Elgar was fascinated by Jazz, though unlike Ravel for example he never thought that he could graft Jazzy elements into his own music. He felt that the whole style was totally alien to his own, though he was quite enthusiastic about Jazz, and commented that the "gramophone" allowed the new style of "Jazz and Blues" to be listened to and studied in Britain [speech made at the opening of the HMV record store in Oxford Street in London], and this was but one benefit of the then burgeoning recording industry.
I suppose the Jazz I have most pleasure from tends to be that very early style, before it became ultra-complicated, like modern classical music!
Oh and the Songbook phenomenon such as Ella Fitzgerald brought forward so successfully on records ...
Thinking about Previn, his direction of the music in ...
My Fair Lady,
... the film with Rex Harrison is simply the best direction on a film-score that I have ever come across. Precise, and yet totally relaxed as befits the moment, and full of warmth.
Wonderful music making indeed.
ATB from George
Posted on: 28 December 2010 by fred simon
quote:
Originally posted by George Johnson:
[jazz] all too often seems empty of emotion for me ... so much pretentious doodling.
Apparently you've been listening to the wrong stuff, George. I agree that there's lots of pretentious doodling in jazz, but so, too, in any genre.
Trust me, just as in classical music, there's lots of jazz that has abundant emotion. Almost any Keith Jarrett ballad performance, for instance. This transcendent performance of Danny Boy, for example:
If you find this "empty of emotion" then I'm afraid there's nothing more I can say. Not to mention the uncanny brilliance of his improvised re-harmonization, which, of course, contributes greatly to the deeply felt emotion.
Posted on: 28 December 2010 by Julian H
Hi Sniper
It would appear I am several months ahead of you. I am heavily indebted to Geoff P who has spent much time with me, going through his collection so that I can hone a list of what I liked to take things further.
Albums I already know I like are as follows;
Miles Davis – Kind of Blue, Sketches of Spain, Porgy and Bess and Bitches Brew. Dave Brubeck – Time Out, Time Further Out and Paper Moon Charles Mingus – Mingus Ah Um, Oh Yeah and Pithecanthropus Erectus Red Garland Trio – Manteca, Bright and Breezy and Red in Bluesville Nat Adderley – Work Song Count Basie – The Atomic Mr Basie Jan Garbarek – I took up the Runes [still not sure] Tsuyoshi Yamamoto Trio – Midnight Sugar Abdullah Ibrahim – Cape Town Revisited
In addition to the above, others that I have heard snippets of and need further investigation are Montreaux Alexander, Tony Bennett and Ella Fitzgerald [both when accompanied by Count Basie], Jimmy Smith, Oscar Peterson, Johnny Hodges, Thelonius Monk and Clarke Terry.
Not sure if that helps, I hope it does!
Julian
Posted on: 28 December 2010 by winkyincanada
For me, some of the most accessible modern jazz comes from Brad Mehldau. He often uses themes from popular and familiar tunes (a lot of Radiohead, some Beatles and even some Nick Drake) to "pin down" the more freeform jazz improvisation. I find that this gives it more instant familiarity that leads me to easier enjoyment. I understand that this notion may be a travesty to some, but I don't always want to work hard to "get" music.
Fred Simon's music is also very appealing to me without much effort. Subsequent more focussed listening just builds on my appreciation for the art that is on display.
I also can't get enough Tord.
Most people (including me) find "Kind of Blue" very accessible, but with a lot more to come over time.
Cheers,
Winky
Posted on: 29 December 2010 by MangoMonkey
My Favs:
Definitely start with Kind of Blue. It's a Jazz CD that even folks that don't like Jazz like.
Mingus Ah hum is definitely very moving too.
There's a Duke Ellington + Louis Armstrong CD that's really cool.
And there's a Duke Ellington meets Count Basie that's excellent Big Band music.
Verve's got a Coleman Hawkins meets Ben Webster that's awesome.
And then there's Gerry Mulligan meets Ben Webster. (west coast meets east coast jazz).
Verve had a bunch of reissues in the late 90s/early 80s, mostly of collaborations between jazz folks. These CDs come in a cardboard case instead of a plastic case so should be easy to identify.
Posted on: 29 December 2010 by irwan shah
An introduction to jazz that is very on the ears are John Coltrane's Ballads:
and Miles Davis' 'Round About Midnight:
Also try Fred Simon's Dream House which is now in the list of my favourite top ten albums of all time:
Posted on: 30 December 2010 by fred simon
quote:
Originally posted by winkyincanada:
Fred Simon's music is also very appealing to me without much effort. Subsequent more focused listening just builds on my appreciation for the art that is on display.
Winky, thanks for your kind words. I'm grateful for your taking the time for more focused listening, which does indeed yield a richer appreciation.
All best, Fred
Posted on: 30 December 2010 by fred simon
quote:
Originally posted by irwan shah:
Also try Fred Simon's Dream House which is now in the list of my favourite top ten albums of all time:
Thanks so much for your steadfast support, Irwan ... glad to be moving up on your "chart"!
I'd also suggest to Sniper (or anyone!) to check out my other two Naim albums: Remember the River and Since Forever as well.
All best, Fred
Posted on: 30 December 2010 by irwan shah
quote:
Originally posted by fred simon:
quote:
Originally posted by irwan shah:
Also try Fred Simon's Dream House which is now in the list of my favourite top ten albums of all time:
Thanks so much for your steadfast support, Irwan ... glad to be moving up on your "chart"!
I'd also suggest to Sniper (or anyone!) to check out my other two Naim albums: Remember the River and Since Forever as well.
All best, Fred
Fred Simon is one of the most underrated pianist in modern jazz. He is a musical genius, blessed with great technical skill and the ability to express music with so much emotion.
'Remember the River' is a great album on vinyl and 'Since Forever' is only available on CD. I am hoping that Naim will release it on vinyl sometime in the future. Naim's vinyl is first class.
Posted on: 01 January 2011 by fred simon
quote:
Originally posted by irwan shah:
Fred Simon is one of the most underrated pianist in modern jazz. He is a musical genius, blessed with great technical skill and the ability to express music with so much emotion.
'Remember the River' is a great album on vinyl and 'Since Forever' is only available on CD. I am hoping that Naim will release it on vinyl sometime in the future. Naim's vinyl is first class.
And a Happy New Year to you, too, Irwan! I'm truly grateful for the very kind words; so glad you enjoy the music.
Don't know about Since Forever on vinyl ... no plans I'm aware of. Unfortunately, it would no doubt have to be abridged, as Remember the River was, to fit on an LP ... for RTR we had to omit several tracks, which is always a painful procedure.
All best, Fred
Posted on: 01 January 2011 by George Fredrik
Cut it on four sides at 45 rpm, and then some of the unavoidable end of side LP issues will evapourate!
Apart from leaping up three times during the music, and surface noise, it might be almost as good as CD - though Hires might be better again.
ATB from George
Posted on: 01 January 2011 by irwan shah
quote:
Originally posted by fred simon:
quote:
Originally posted by irwan shah:
Fred Simon is one of the most underrated pianist in modern jazz. He is a musical genius, blessed with great technical skill and the ability to express music with so much emotion.
'Remember the River' is a great album on vinyl and 'Since Forever' is only available on CD. I am hoping that Naim will release it on vinyl sometime in the future. Naim's vinyl is first class.
And a Happy New Year to you, too, Irwan! I'm truly grateful for the very kind words; so glad you enjoy the music.
Don't know about Since Forever on vinyl ... no plans I'm aware of. Unfortunately, it would no doubt have to be abridged, as Remember the River was, to fit on an LP ... for RTR we had to omit several tracks, which is always a painful procedure.
All best, Fred
Dear Fred,
That is why I have one copy on vinyl and another on CD!
Posted on: 02 January 2011 by fred simon
quote:
Originally posted by irwan shah:
Dear Fred,
That is why I have one copy on vinyl and another on CD!
Thanks, Irwan. That's why "fan" is an abbreviation of "fanatic"! (insert emoticon here)
Posted on: 02 January 2011 by Sniper
I have enjoyed listening to Miles Davis – Kind of Blue - as suggested by a few of you.
It did not blow me away or anything but it has nagged at me to replay it and so I have (again and again) and each time I do I notice new things. It is growing on me daily. It is strange how it won't leave me alone. I definitely like it!
I play it via my laptop while I am working. Things were greatly improved when I used my new ear phones which only cost me 25p which prove to be much better than the ear phones I paid a £1 for (I'm not joking).
I am going to work my way through some of the other suggestions
Posted on: 02 January 2011 by fred simon
quote:
Originally posted by Sniper:
I play it via my laptop while I am working. Things were greatly improved when I used my new ear phones ...
No doubt. Not just for sonic reasons, but for clearer focus.
This is music that needs to be paid full attention to, at least until you get to know it. No listening while working, reading, surfing, etc.
Actually, this is true of any worthwhile music. While, of course, there are many perfectly valid uses of music, actual listening is something one can do only while doing nothing else.
Posted on: 03 January 2011 by Sniper
Fred,
Agree with all you say. I had a few good concentrated listens too. Turns out I was already quite familiar with the first track but the rest was all new to me. I'm looking forward to hearing more.
Posted on: 03 January 2011 by Chief Chirpa
quote:
Originally posted by fred simon:
While, of course, there are many perfectly valid uses of music, actual listening is something one can do only while doing nothing else.
Interesting. I almost always listen to music whilst doing something else. Which reminds me...
Sniper, Another great Miles album in all but name:
If you're enjoying Kind of Blue, the above makes for an excellent companion.
Posted on: 03 January 2011 by Tommo
I find Donald Byrd quite accessible. Not the 70s disco-y stuff, but earlier. Got a real groove, I'm not really big on theory but it 'resolves' in a more expected manner to ears unaccustomed to Jazz. I don't know exactly where it falls in the sub-genre spectrum, Jazz has as many or more pointlessly named sub-divisions as rock.
I might get flamed for this, but if you like something with a bit more of a beat try typing 'Early Byrd' into Spotify, then look at the sessions those came from, the last 4 tracks on that comp are great IMO.
Posted on: 03 January 2011 by fred simon
quote:
Originally posted by Chief Chirpa:
quote:
Originally posted by fred simon:
While, of course, there are many perfectly valid uses of music, actual listening is something one can do only while doing nothing else.
Interesting. I almost always listen to music whilst doing something else.
Can't be done, brain won't allow it ... whenever its attention is occupied by the secondary activity, it's missed notes going by. End result is analogous to skimming while reading ... you can get the gist, perhaps, but you're not reading every word and getting the full impact, and certainly missing important details.
Good recommendation, btw, on the Cannonball side. Another well-recommended album is '58 Miles, which is the only other Miles album featuring the Kind Of Blue personnel, the lynchpin of which is pianist Bill Evans.
All best, Fred
Posted on: 11 January 2011 by mudwolf
thanks Fred for all your insights. I listen to things in background and then they're gone. I have a difficult time sitting even in a great hall like Disney and focusing on every note. Some times my mind just chatters away and I have to pull back because I"m missing the detail in the overall production.
I have to start a meditation practice regularly
Posted on: 12 January 2011 by JWM
quote:
Originally posted by Sniper: My scoffing friend and jazz expert recommended John Coltrane's 'A Love Supreme' and this is the one I can't stand. I got half way through it and vowed never to give it another go. I remember JWM recommending it previously and said it was a prayer as I recall which stuck in my mind and aided the decision to buy - It sounds more like an anguished schizophrenic begging for sanity in the pits of hell in my opinion (Sniper ducks his head and prepares for incoming). I can't ever imagine trying it out again.
Yes, that's it! Prayer in the 'dark night of the soul' spiritual tradition! I didn't like it much the first time, either (like mushrooms, whiskey, and one or two other things...)
I find myself increasingly drawn to 'non-lyrical' jazz (my term, soory if I've inadvertently offended anyone). I like a bit of chaos in my otherwise ordered life, perhaps.
Or rather, I like music whether there is a very lyrical theme, but then the the musical exploration goes off in all sorts of interesting directions. I imagine that this why I enjoy Empirical (brilliant live) and Kit Downes Trio amongst the new generation. And just bought Eric Dolphy complete Paris recordings, which Empirical namecheck as a big influence.
Of course I would recommend both of those!
But as a more 'lyrical' record, I would add to the list 'Pyramid' by the Modern Jazz Quartet. I hope you find this suggestion more to your taste!
Posted on: 12 January 2011 by JWM
quote:
Originally posted by mudwolf: thanks Fred for all your insights. I listen to things in background and then they're gone. I have a difficult time sitting even in a great hall like Disney and focusing on every note. Some times my mind just chatters away and I have to pull back because I"m missing the detail in the overall production.
I have to start a meditation practice regularly
Don't worry about the 'tree full of monkeys'. Quite often it can be the fabric of our thought rather than the 'noise'. But if you're wanting some quiet, have a notebook and pen to hand, then you can note things down to follow up later, and they no longer need to crowd into your thoughts or quiet.
