What percentage of your music is stolen

Ok an honest answer here.

Of the 700 odd albums I have ripped on our NAS there are about 30-40 I do not own the CD.

Some are copies of albums I have on vinyl - does that mean I've already paid the royalties? I'm not sure?

Others are things I've noticed in mates collections and thought 'I'll give that a try' Many of these I've only tried once and will never ever get played again, others I've enjoyed and often I've gone on to buy other stuff by the artist. For instance my son leant me a copy of Iron & Wine's Our Endless Numbered Days, so good was it that I've just ordered various albums from their back catalogue.

G

Excellent thread, only just found it as I tend to look at the other areas of the forum.

The percentage of CDs/albums I have from downloads of albums that are now, or were once available is around 0.015%, maybe a few more when I have downloaded MP3s to listen to an album to see if I want to buy it.

Of that 0.015%, which is about 20-30 albums, around half are albums I have on vinyl but do not think are worth buying on CD, and have downloaded rather than recording to CD from vinyl. A quarter are albums that are not available currently on CD, and have only had very limited releases in the past which now cost silly money on Ebay/Amazon. There are also a few singles to add like that.

A few are albums that I would not buy anyway, for instance the last three Genesis albums, after actually parting with money for 'Abacab' which I feel should never have been released on quality control grounds, I felt the band owed me the one or two listenable tracks spread across their later work to make up for the money already spent on that unlistenable pap. A subjective argument I know.

I would also add that record companies have been selling us the same material repackages, and rehashed over the last few years. Remasters on the whole being a poorer quality product marketed as in some way superior, as well as things like the Miles Davis 'Kind of Blue' anniversary box set with several new tracks, which turn out to be a bit of talking between the music.

So before people get high and mighty about the poor record companies, lets not forget that they deliberately have prevented artists from releasing certain albums (eg. David Bowie 'Toy' 1996, and 'Live Here Now 1998), suing them for making music which was honest as opposed to commercial (eg. Talk Talk 'Spirit of Eden 1988, Neil Young 'Trans' 1980), and withhold the right of varous artist to releases their archive performances although they have no intention of releasing them (Tangerine Dream & Edgar Froese solo albums from the Virgin years, as well as live recordings).

Naim forum, Music Room thread, 'How many CDs do you own?' parallels this a bit:
https://forums.naimaudio.com/ev...385/m/7182904737/p/4

A very interesting article/blog/rant by Nine Inch Nails graphic designer is worth a read on the subject too. A long rad, which I have posted links to before, about the closing of the sharing website 'Oink', get a cup of coffee or teas before reading it if you are tempted.
http://www.demonbaby.com/blog/...f-oink-birth-of.html

I probably also own as many bootleg/live/session recordings, mostly from bit-torrent downloads. All material unavailable in other forms. Many bands are very pro such bootlegs are they generate sales, some have no opinion, and some are greatly against them (but I wouldn't wish to have a Metallica bootleg anyway).

I have found that as well as giving me a great deal of very enjoyable music that I would not hear in any other way, that it has hugely increased my buying of commercially available releases, and indeed introduced me to a genre of music I did not know existed in which I have over 100 albums, and have seen a couple of dozen live performances over the last few years. All earnings for the artists concerned.

quote:

Posted Sun 12 December 2010 17:10
In these days of file sharing and the inter-webs, it is pretty straightforward to steal music from friends and strangers (I am told).

So, how honest are we? How much music have we copied or downloaded illegally? As a corollary, have we "unbought" any music by selling the CDs after ripping ("backing up" ) the contents?

I have some stuff (maybe 6-or-so CDs' worth) that was given to me as gifts on CDRs that I have ripped into my collection, but that's about it, I think. What about others?

Any comments on the ethics of this, or the future? How do artists get paid when music is distributed for free?

None. Everyone needs to pay. If you rip something that is someone else's or you download things that have been stolen on the net then you are stealing. Ask the folks behind Napster what the US Govt. thinks of this whole issue. Interesting comment on "unbuying" though. I have not done that but I have some friends that have and it didn't quite cross my mind as you are putting it. Interesting delima and not sure how that feels to me.

quote:

None. Everyone needs to pay.

See the Woodstock spirit is alive and well...

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Posted Thu 30 December 2010 14:40 Hide Post
quote:
None. Everyone needs to pay.


See the Woodstock spirit is alive and well...
Posts: 1341 | Registered: Tue 12 July 2005

The poster was really more asking about music in your "collection" I'm betting. There is so much "legal" free music available these days whether from internet radio, Pandora, etc, etc, that the "Woodstock" generation (which I am one of thank you) has MORE than enough
to listen to without borrowing a cd from a library, etc and copying it. It's more about a general sense of fairness I think. If the artist wants all their music to be free then they'll let people know it, if musicians want to get paid for their recordings (and I'm betting that's a majority) then they should be. I'm teaching my 12 yr old son that he should buy something if he likes it. He uses iTunes and of course is all over the internet hearing music but when he does hear something he likes I steer him to a purchase. The Woodstock spirit is indeed alive and well....it's just growing up a bit.

99.x % legal here, the odd exception being some compilation CDs given to me by friends. It would have seemed ungrateful to refuse.

Those CDs have resulted in sales for some of the artists represented on the compilations, though.

Personally, I would love it if musicians got paid for their recordings.

I would never have discovered music but for copying LPs on a Sony (yes them) cassette when I was aged about 12.

In those days, of course, the music industry was in good health with record-breaking sales.

Today the people who sued kids and their parents for downloading are struggling a little and trying to take a slice of what artists earn from touring and merchandise as well as keeping all the cash from their few sales.

I am not surprised at the state the industry is in - they are reaping the whirlwind.

PS I'm 100% legal, but then I'm no longer aged 12 and people who have grown up a bit can afford to pay...

quote:

Posted Thu 30 December 2010 22:34 Hide Post
Personally, I would love it if musicians got paid for their recordings.

I would never have discovered music but for copying LPs on a Sony (yes them) cassette when I was aged about 12.

In those days, of course, the music industry was in good health with record-breaking sales.

Today the people who sued kids and their parents for downloading are struggling a little and trying to take a slice of what artists earn from touring and merchandise as well as keeping all the cash from their few sales.

I am not surprised at the state the industry is in - they are reaping the whirlwind.

PS I'm 100% legal, but then I'm no longer aged 12 and people who have grown up a bit can afford to pay...

It's not an "afford" to pay situation as much as what do you really want to own. There is soooo much good music for free out on the internet in the form of Pandora, internet radio, etc that waiting to purchase something that you really want is not a hardship nor is it limiting to what you can listen to. It would an interesting thread to find out what percent of most peoples record (or cd or...) collections that they listen to. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to not have a huge collection these days. A bit like how I get books from the library to read and not purchase them because I don't really need to have it on my shelf after I read it. These are interesting times in a lot of ways for the recording "industry" and music reproduction in general. The globe is shrinking, music that used to not see the light of day in the US is now commonplace, radio stations from Brazil, Paris, China, etc. at the touch of a button. Anything, anytime, anywhere. Amazing if you stop and think about it.

Absolutely. In fact I have not bought a CD for two years now and I'm not about to run out of perfectly legitimate music anytime soon.

There have always been bootlegs and copying and there always will be. The thing which has changed for the better in my view is that the grip of the major labels and traditional distribution channels has been largely eroded.

The result appears wholly healthy to me in terms of variety and creativity - and there is often the opportunity to directly support artists, which I would urge people to take up.

In many ways, as you say, these are the best of times for new music.

I only have one album that I didn't buy and that's because it was never released; Dangermouse, The Grey Album.

While I believe in buying/owning music legitimately I often try before I buy with illegal downloads (though I tend to use spotify now) and if the music is any good then I go out and buy the CD straight away. This has lead to me buying a lot more music from artists I didn't really know before.

Having said that the majority of people would be happy with the illegal mp3 version as it would sound good enough to them and their priorities might lie elsewhere, ie not music.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Tog:
So some of us are going to audiophile hell ... wonder what that is going to be like?

A place with no music?

AIUI UK copyright for sound recordings lasts for 50 years after the end of the year in which the works was first released. So presumably we are now at the point where there is no copyright in recordings released in 1960 (and before).

I recently discovered that one can download the majority of the costly MFSL and DCC titles. FYI I have paid hundreds of pounds for rare/highly sought after albums - happily too. source first n all

this has allowed me to check mfsl/dcc etc mastering quality before buying one on ebay. i prefer (despite its cost) owning the real thing, ripping it myself etc - but this does help me though as it can be costly re selling them on if i am not happy with the mastering of the purchase.

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Originally posted by Michael Chare:
AIUI UK copyright for sound recordings lasts for 50 years after the end of the year in which the works was first released. So presumably we are now at the point where there is no copyright in recordings released in 1960 (and before).

This true in that if one finds an LP from say 1959 [i.e., be definition a recording made more than fifty years ago] this can form the basis of new made transfer even for publication.

However if the owners of the master tape of metal parts makes a new transfer and re-master, this newly issued version is not allowed to be copied in the same way as the original issue, presumably till the re-mastering reaches a certain age - fifty years?

By now we are in the odd situation of having high quality re-releases in fine restorations of historic recordings from the owners of the master materials, sitting alongside the same record taken from the first release discs from other companies!

This usually underlines just how grim early LPs are in comparison with the original master recording in a modern transfer and remastering.

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by formbypc:

quote:

Originally posted by Tog:
So some of us are going to audiophile hell ... wonder what that is going to be like?

A place with no music?

A place so hot that all records melt!

ATB from George

I find the Internet Archive a fascinating source of good quality live recordings - Death Cab for Cutie - Low Anthem etc

Legal - often taped straight from the Soundboard.

Tog

quote:

Originally posted by George Johnson:
However if the owners of the master tape of metal parts makes a new transfer and re-master, this newly issued version is not allowed to be copied in the same way as the original issue, presumably till the re-mastering reaches a certain age - fifty years?

From what I have read, it is not certain that remastering creates a new copyright. Of course the record companies would no doubt hope that it does.

The original copyright on music recorded in the 60s will expire in the next 10 years. Much of it was probably quite well recorded.

quote:

Absolutely. In fact I have not bought a CD for two years now and I'm not about to run out of perfectly legitimate music anytime soon.

There have always been bootlegs and copying and there always will be. The thing which has changed for the better in my view is that the grip of the major labels and traditional distribution channels has been largely eroded.

The result appears wholly healthy to me in terms of variety and creativity - and there is often the opportunity to directly support artists, which I would urge people to take up.

In many ways, as you say, these are the best of times for new music.
Posts: 1349 | Registered: Tue 12 July 2005

Amen to that.

100% legal music on my NAS and I have never ever downloaded movies either.