Max'ed-out-nDAC/INT202 or Weiss DAC202
Posted by: gav111n on 29 November 2010
Here's my experience of comparing a max'ed out nDAC/INT202 with the DAC202. As ever I am not claiming to have unearthed any universal truths, just my opinion.
My current set-up is:
MBP>AyreWave>HiFace>DC1(BNC-BNC)>nDAC+PL+555PS+PL>standard grey interconnect>552+PL>300+PL>NACA5>GuruQM60(on loan)
A few weeks ago I upgraded the nDAC firmware, which has solved all of my previous issues with USB stick compatibility. This prompted me to listen to music on USB more seriously and for longer periods. Since then I have become to realise that my MBP/HiFace combo is in fact lacking somewhat compared with USB, even with the excellent AyreWave. So, how to improve things?
I really like the versatility of using the MBP as my source. In addition to playing ripped CDs I have access to streamed radio and listen-again services and music on demand etc. So I decided to look at an upgrade to the HiFace.
I borrowed an INT202 from Keith at Purite and dug out my £10 Profigold RCA-RCA digital coax, as the INT does not have a BNC output. About 10 seconds into the first track and the improvement over the HiFace was clear. It's just what I was looking for. As I expected, the INT is very special in combination with the nDAC.
I then started thinking, if the INT202 is so good maybe the DAC202 will also do it for me, with the added benefit of just one small box replacing an interface plus nDAC plus 555PS. So for the last few days I have been running a DAC202 (with a Chord Cobra Plus RCA-DIN replacing the grey interconnect). It's amazingly detailed and controlled. No matter how complex the music gets it renders all instruments with airy separation. Female voices are particularly beautiful and any metallic instruments are simply stunning. With the DAC202 I could happily listen to a whole album of 'sheet metal being wobbled'. I can see why people love this DAC. So that's it then, swap to the DAC202?
For me, not a chance. The DAC202 gives a wonderfully truthful viewport into the album, but it's the girl your mother wants you to marry. The INT202/nDAC/555PS is different; there are no tone controls obviously but I have a feeling that there may be one hidden inside somewhere labelled ‘emotion’ or ‘passion’ and it’s set to 11. Instruments reach out and come chasing after you. There’s no escape. At times it actually scares the living bejesus out of me. All bets are off - if the track demands it, the INT202/nDAC/555PS will take your life.
For example, the Show of Hands’ track Arrogance Ignorance and Greed, on the DAC202 makes me think about the aesthetics of Steve Knightley’s voice, but when listening on the INT202/nDAC/555PS I plan to join Class War and punch an investment banker.
Maybe with a more exotic interconnect the DAC202 would do it for me, but I’m really not sure. I don’t feel inspired enough to go on a cable quest. Having said that, I am only comparing to the nDAC running naim’s cooking grade interconnect.
I have boxed up the DAC202 for return and will be keeping the INT202 and sticking with my nDAC/555PS.
Gav
My current set-up is:
MBP>AyreWave>HiFace>DC1(BNC-BNC)>nDAC+PL+555PS+PL>standard grey interconnect>552+PL>300+PL>NACA5>GuruQM60(on loan)
A few weeks ago I upgraded the nDAC firmware, which has solved all of my previous issues with USB stick compatibility. This prompted me to listen to music on USB more seriously and for longer periods. Since then I have become to realise that my MBP/HiFace combo is in fact lacking somewhat compared with USB, even with the excellent AyreWave. So, how to improve things?
I really like the versatility of using the MBP as my source. In addition to playing ripped CDs I have access to streamed radio and listen-again services and music on demand etc. So I decided to look at an upgrade to the HiFace.
I borrowed an INT202 from Keith at Purite and dug out my £10 Profigold RCA-RCA digital coax, as the INT does not have a BNC output. About 10 seconds into the first track and the improvement over the HiFace was clear. It's just what I was looking for. As I expected, the INT is very special in combination with the nDAC.
I then started thinking, if the INT202 is so good maybe the DAC202 will also do it for me, with the added benefit of just one small box replacing an interface plus nDAC plus 555PS. So for the last few days I have been running a DAC202 (with a Chord Cobra Plus RCA-DIN replacing the grey interconnect). It's amazingly detailed and controlled. No matter how complex the music gets it renders all instruments with airy separation. Female voices are particularly beautiful and any metallic instruments are simply stunning. With the DAC202 I could happily listen to a whole album of 'sheet metal being wobbled'. I can see why people love this DAC. So that's it then, swap to the DAC202?
For me, not a chance. The DAC202 gives a wonderfully truthful viewport into the album, but it's the girl your mother wants you to marry. The INT202/nDAC/555PS is different; there are no tone controls obviously but I have a feeling that there may be one hidden inside somewhere labelled ‘emotion’ or ‘passion’ and it’s set to 11. Instruments reach out and come chasing after you. There’s no escape. At times it actually scares the living bejesus out of me. All bets are off - if the track demands it, the INT202/nDAC/555PS will take your life.
For example, the Show of Hands’ track Arrogance Ignorance and Greed, on the DAC202 makes me think about the aesthetics of Steve Knightley’s voice, but when listening on the INT202/nDAC/555PS I plan to join Class War and punch an investment banker.
Maybe with a more exotic interconnect the DAC202 would do it for me, but I’m really not sure. I don’t feel inspired enough to go on a cable quest. Having said that, I am only comparing to the nDAC running naim’s cooking grade interconnect.
I have boxed up the DAC202 for return and will be keeping the INT202 and sticking with my nDAC/555PS.
Gav
quote:Do you find the INT202 to be close to then nDAC USB playback or it is better?
Asenna04,
I had a good listening session on Saturday night, moving between the various players: Amarra (trial), Pure Music (licence holder), Audirvana and AyreWave (my favourite at the moment). After this I finished with a few tracks on USB. I would say that the MBP/INT202 is close but I still slightly prefer USB - aarrgh! I’m not happy about it, but there you go. The MBP/INT202 is just a teeny-weeny bit ‘sparkly’ and ‘sscchhy’ on the letter ‘s’ and ‘ultra-real’ whereas the USB stick just seems right.
Three reasons to question this:
1. I am using a very cheap and cheerful RCA-RCA coax between INT and nDAC.
2. js says that a computer should sound better than USB stick and that guy has heard a lot more gear than me.
3. While listening I drank a bottle of JW Lees Moonraker ale and half a bottle of Fullers ESB.
js,
I have played around with Amarra a few times over the months but it doesn’t excite me as much as the alternatives. Do you think that a better digital coax (DC1?) could push the result beyond USB stick for me? You mentioned before about a separate power supply for the INT, What sort of thing had you in mind. I have read about people using a 9pin to 4pin (or 9pin to 6 pin?) adapter on the computer firewire port to eliminate the power connection going to the device entirely.
I love using the MBP and now it sounds blummin’ fantastic and really close to USB. I’m a happy chap, at the moment (but secretly waiting for naim to launch my perfect transport – essentially an audiophile MBP in black with an illuminated green logo with no interface between it and the nDAC plus glass holder).
I hope AllenB also makes the comparison with USB and reports back on his Qute/Serve/INT thread.
Gav
It does work well there but for me, the best computer solutions are still not up to something like a UnitiServe and the int is the best computer interface I've heard by a decent margin. See if you can try one along with the DC1 to get another perspective. Perhaps rip and play from inboard to remove all varialbles. If things go as I think they may, you'll have a proper target.quote:Originally posted by gav111n:quote:Do you find the INT202 to be close to then nDAC USB playback or it is better?
Asenna04,
I had a good listening session on Saturday night, moving between the various players: Amarra (trial), Pure Music (licence holder), Audirvana and AyreWave (my favourite at the moment). After this I finished with a few tracks on USB. I would say that the MBP/INT202 is close but I still slightly prefer USB - aarrgh! I’m not happy about it, but there you go. The MBP/INT202 is just a teeny-weeny bit ‘sparkly’ and ‘sscchhy’ on the letter ‘s’ and ‘ultra-real’ whereas the USB stick just seems right.
Three reasons to question this:
1. I am using a very cheap and cheerful RCA-RCA coax between INT and nDAC.
2. js says that a computer should sound better than USB stick and that guy has heard a lot more gear than me.
3. While listening I drank a bottle of JW Lees Moonraker ale and half a bottle of Fullers ESB.
js,
I have played around with Amarra a few times over the months but it doesn’t excite me as much as the alternatives. Do you think that a better digital coax (DC1?) could push the result beyond USB stick for me? You mentioned before about a separate power supply for the INT, What sort of thing had you in mind. I have read about people using a 9pin to 4pin (or 9pin to 6 pin?) adapter on the computer firewire port to eliminate the power connection going to the device entirely.
I love using the MBP and now it sounds blummin’ fantastic and really close to USB. I’m a happy chap, at the moment (but secretly waiting for naim to launch my perfect transport – essentially an audiophile MBP in black with an illuminated green logo with no interface between it and the nDAC plus glass holder).
I hope AllenB also makes the comparison with USB and reports back on his Qute/Serve/INT thread.
Gav
PS wise, we always use PSCs with a bit of a massage not to be discussed but I believe ferenc has found something for his evo that has a proper equivilent.
quote:It does work well there but for me, the best computer solutions are still not up to something like a UnitiServe and the int is the best computer interface I've heard by a decent margin.
js, UnitiServe IS a computer solution
Carefully designed and assembled. The best one ! 
Ferenc has found a Paul Hynes external supply for his EVO. BTW some claim batteries to be even better.
A real computer
quote:A real computer
I wonder how nDAC will perform on the end of this monster
This one even came with an early form of optical device...
quote:Originally posted by gav111n:quote:Do you find the INT202 to be close to then nDAC USB playback or it is better?
Asenna04,
I had a good listening session on Saturday night, moving between the various players: Amarra (trial), Pure Music (licence holder), Audirvana and AyreWave (my favourite at the moment). After this I finished with a few tracks on USB. I would say that the MBP/INT202 is close but I still slightly prefer USB - aarrgh! I’m not happy about it, but there you go. The MBP/INT202 is just a teeny-weeny bit ‘sparkly’ and ‘sscchhy’ on the letter ‘s’ and ‘ultra-real’ whereas the USB stick just seems right.
Three reasons to question this:
1. I am using a very cheap and cheerful RCA-RCA coax between INT and nDAC.
2. js says that a computer should sound better than USB stick and that guy has heard a lot more gear than me.
3. While listening I drank a bottle of JW Lees Moonraker ale and half a bottle of Fullers ESB.
js,
I have played around with Amarra a few times over the months but it doesn’t excite me as much as the alternatives. Do you think that a better digital coax (DC1?) could push the result beyond USB stick for me? You mentioned before about a separate power supply for the INT, What sort of thing had you in mind. I have read about people using a 9pin to 4pin (or 9pin to 6 pin?) adapter on the computer firewire port to eliminate the power connection going to the device entirely.
I love using the MBP and now it sounds blummin’ fantastic and really close to USB. I’m a happy chap, at the moment (but secretly waiting for naim to launch my perfect transport – essentially an audiophile MBP in black with an illuminated green logo with no interface between it and the nDAC plus glass holder).
I hope AllenB also makes the comparison with USB and reports back on his Qute/Serve/INT thread.
Gav
Gav,
Thanks for the update. I find it quite interesting and makes me feel I am doing the right thing to hold on for a while and use the USB for critical listerning while I wait for a 'streamer' solution. As long as it is only the inconvinience of copying the music to a USB and putting it in at the back of the nDAC is where I loose out and I am getting the best from sound quality from the nDAC using it like that, I don't mind. I also do not like the idea of having a too many boxes in my living room and using the USB option cuts down on a computer and the INT202 (or equivalent).
But then there will be others who will say the USB is not really the best you can get out form the nDAC
ASenna04
Yes, the joy stick was about to be replaced by the optical pointer.quote:Originally posted by Richard Dane:
This one even came with an early form of optical device...
quote:PS i do not own shares in Nordost, they just have alot of my money.
Briz, did you ever try DC1?
quote:Purchased Naim DAC and I still love it and am finding little ways of making it even better.
Try XPS