Max'ed-out-nDAC/INT202 or Weiss DAC202
Posted by: gav111n on 29 November 2010
Here's my experience of comparing a max'ed out nDAC/INT202 with the DAC202. As ever I am not claiming to have unearthed any universal truths, just my opinion.
My current set-up is:
MBP>AyreWave>HiFace>DC1(BNC-BNC)>nDAC+PL+555PS+PL>standard grey interconnect>552+PL>300+PL>NACA5>GuruQM60(on loan)
A few weeks ago I upgraded the nDAC firmware, which has solved all of my previous issues with USB stick compatibility. This prompted me to listen to music on USB more seriously and for longer periods. Since then I have become to realise that my MBP/HiFace combo is in fact lacking somewhat compared with USB, even with the excellent AyreWave. So, how to improve things?
I really like the versatility of using the MBP as my source. In addition to playing ripped CDs I have access to streamed radio and listen-again services and music on demand etc. So I decided to look at an upgrade to the HiFace.
I borrowed an INT202 from Keith at Purite and dug out my £10 Profigold RCA-RCA digital coax, as the INT does not have a BNC output. About 10 seconds into the first track and the improvement over the HiFace was clear. It's just what I was looking for. As I expected, the INT is very special in combination with the nDAC.
I then started thinking, if the INT202 is so good maybe the DAC202 will also do it for me, with the added benefit of just one small box replacing an interface plus nDAC plus 555PS. So for the last few days I have been running a DAC202 (with a Chord Cobra Plus RCA-DIN replacing the grey interconnect). It's amazingly detailed and controlled. No matter how complex the music gets it renders all instruments with airy separation. Female voices are particularly beautiful and any metallic instruments are simply stunning. With the DAC202 I could happily listen to a whole album of 'sheet metal being wobbled'. I can see why people love this DAC. So that's it then, swap to the DAC202?
For me, not a chance. The DAC202 gives a wonderfully truthful viewport into the album, but it's the girl your mother wants you to marry. The INT202/nDAC/555PS is different; there are no tone controls obviously but I have a feeling that there may be one hidden inside somewhere labelled ‘emotion’ or ‘passion’ and it’s set to 11. Instruments reach out and come chasing after you. There’s no escape. At times it actually scares the living bejesus out of me. All bets are off - if the track demands it, the INT202/nDAC/555PS will take your life.
For example, the Show of Hands’ track Arrogance Ignorance and Greed, on the DAC202 makes me think about the aesthetics of Steve Knightley’s voice, but when listening on the INT202/nDAC/555PS I plan to join Class War and punch an investment banker.
Maybe with a more exotic interconnect the DAC202 would do it for me, but I’m really not sure. I don’t feel inspired enough to go on a cable quest. Having said that, I am only comparing to the nDAC running naim’s cooking grade interconnect.
I have boxed up the DAC202 for return and will be keeping the INT202 and sticking with my nDAC/555PS.
Gav
My current set-up is:
MBP>AyreWave>HiFace>DC1(BNC-BNC)>nDAC+PL+555PS+PL>standard grey interconnect>552+PL>300+PL>NACA5>GuruQM60(on loan)
A few weeks ago I upgraded the nDAC firmware, which has solved all of my previous issues with USB stick compatibility. This prompted me to listen to music on USB more seriously and for longer periods. Since then I have become to realise that my MBP/HiFace combo is in fact lacking somewhat compared with USB, even with the excellent AyreWave. So, how to improve things?
I really like the versatility of using the MBP as my source. In addition to playing ripped CDs I have access to streamed radio and listen-again services and music on demand etc. So I decided to look at an upgrade to the HiFace.
I borrowed an INT202 from Keith at Purite and dug out my £10 Profigold RCA-RCA digital coax, as the INT does not have a BNC output. About 10 seconds into the first track and the improvement over the HiFace was clear. It's just what I was looking for. As I expected, the INT is very special in combination with the nDAC.
I then started thinking, if the INT202 is so good maybe the DAC202 will also do it for me, with the added benefit of just one small box replacing an interface plus nDAC plus 555PS. So for the last few days I have been running a DAC202 (with a Chord Cobra Plus RCA-DIN replacing the grey interconnect). It's amazingly detailed and controlled. No matter how complex the music gets it renders all instruments with airy separation. Female voices are particularly beautiful and any metallic instruments are simply stunning. With the DAC202 I could happily listen to a whole album of 'sheet metal being wobbled'. I can see why people love this DAC. So that's it then, swap to the DAC202?
For me, not a chance. The DAC202 gives a wonderfully truthful viewport into the album, but it's the girl your mother wants you to marry. The INT202/nDAC/555PS is different; there are no tone controls obviously but I have a feeling that there may be one hidden inside somewhere labelled ‘emotion’ or ‘passion’ and it’s set to 11. Instruments reach out and come chasing after you. There’s no escape. At times it actually scares the living bejesus out of me. All bets are off - if the track demands it, the INT202/nDAC/555PS will take your life.
For example, the Show of Hands’ track Arrogance Ignorance and Greed, on the DAC202 makes me think about the aesthetics of Steve Knightley’s voice, but when listening on the INT202/nDAC/555PS I plan to join Class War and punch an investment banker.
Maybe with a more exotic interconnect the DAC202 would do it for me, but I’m really not sure. I don’t feel inspired enough to go on a cable quest. Having said that, I am only comparing to the nDAC running naim’s cooking grade interconnect.
I have boxed up the DAC202 for return and will be keeping the INT202 and sticking with my nDAC/555PS.
Gav
More music from taking the time to compare. Imagine that. 
Great going Gav. Nice to let things settle and get a feel to make sure a change is worthwhile but a few minutes of trouble can give years of benefit. Of course, willy nilly comparisons can be tedious and endless. This is where a dealer taking the time to do his job and compare and make it easier for consumers is important. I wish I could just listen to tunes all day instead.
We're not infallible but the effort should be there for dealers to try for ourselves and not just blindly follow our vendors. I use Naim for the same reasons other board members do and still bring in the latest and greatest amps to compare.
I find a lot of opinions are from setups that are not optomized yet it's too much trouble to do so. Imagine having used an even worse cable in your first DAC comprisons because some board members insist that there's no difference out of principal or haven't had a system as good as your's to discern. There's a happy medium to this sort of thing that I think you've discovered. Nothing wrong with someone enjoying their kit and spinning tunes without knowing what may be better but in that instance, perhaps strong opinion should be avoided.
Gav, all is as it should be. Naim and likely some other premier streamers also improve on the USB. If you're in the US and have issues finding a supply, send an email.
Great going Gav. Nice to let things settle and get a feel to make sure a change is worthwhile but a few minutes of trouble can give years of benefit. Of course, willy nilly comparisons can be tedious and endless. This is where a dealer taking the time to do his job and compare and make it easier for consumers is important. I wish I could just listen to tunes all day instead. We're not infallible but the effort should be there for dealers to try for ourselves and not just blindly follow our vendors. I use Naim for the same reasons other board members do and still bring in the latest and greatest amps to compare.
I find a lot of opinions are from setups that are not optomized yet it's too much trouble to do so. Imagine having used an even worse cable in your first DAC comprisons because some board members insist that there's no difference out of principal or haven't had a system as good as your's to discern. There's a happy medium to this sort of thing that I think you've discovered. Nothing wrong with someone enjoying their kit and spinning tunes without knowing what may be better but in that instance, perhaps strong opinion should be avoided.
Gav, all is as it should be. Naim and likely some other premier streamers also improve on the USB. If you're in the US and have issues finding a supply, send an email.
Good call and the cable itself varies. Aviod those clear jacketed silver shield things. Price is not a great indicator here either so pick up a generic sans ferrite ring to start. TI firewire chip sets seem to be better also so sometimes a $100 card can also give benefit. No need to act on everything as it's endless though at this point the hardware end of computer based should be optomized. Do as is convenient over time since you're already getting a result. Or just get a streamer. 
js, oh bugger, I've got one of those 'clear jacketed silver shield things'!
I will definitely have a look at a better FW cable as well as a PS. I am in the UK and I am going to have a play with a Paul Hynes PS. Seems like a no brainer as I can return it if I am not happy with the effect.
I am trying to resist dedicated streamers at the moment. I love the versatility of the MBP.
James, thanks for your input. Do you know if there is a FW 800 to 400 cable with the power connectors removed so an adapter can be eliminated?
Gav
I will definitely have a look at a better FW cable as well as a PS. I am in the UK and I am going to have a play with a Paul Hynes PS. Seems like a no brainer as I can return it if I am not happy with the effect.
I am trying to resist dedicated streamers at the moment. I love the versatility of the MBP.
James, thanks for your input. Do you know if there is a FW 800 to 400 cable with the power connectors removed so an adapter can be eliminated?
Gav