Kans as rear speakers, and new to home theatre

Hallo all.

While struggling with magnifiers to see what I'm writing on this very tiny word editor . . . .

I'd like to point out that so far my enquiry has received no answer.

The views cont of old forum, last time I've seen it, said 77 visits.

The post was originally created on 6th of January, 2 weeks ago.

I've to believe either my question is too complicated, or else it is bad phrased, or "wrong".

In any event here I make a last attempt to point it out and ask you again to give some hint.

Otherwise, I'll have to forward the post to Naim HQ, and see if they can help.

Thank you all, and

Kindest Regards

Andrea

HI Andrea,

I can't be amazingly helpful I'm afraid, but as a really cheap solution you could:

• Use the 140 on the Kans as rear speakers and operate without a centre speaker initially - nearly all processors have a setting for this.
• Pick up a Yamaha dsp e800 for less than £100 on ebay. It's a processor  designed for integrating with your existing hifi which was very well thought of and used by many naimee's on a budget. It has digital processing so just about up to date enough for dvd's and will handle hi def if your blu ray has analogue outs ( It has 6 channel analogue inputs ). It has pre- outs for all outputs so power amps can be used, but also has speaker outputs for rears and centre if you wish. There's still a lot of them around. Even saw a couple selling as brand new boxed recently. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't.

I don't see any mention in your original post of an AV processor.  I agree with David that you could work initially without a Centre speaker, especially if you are the only listener.  For most of us the centre speaker is only really of use for those of us who listen "off-axis", to make sure the dialogue is centred on the screen.

You mention limited budget.  Depends how limited, and AV2s are not particularly expensive on the second hand market ATM, although it lacks the (possibly dubious) benefit of HDMI connection and High Def audio decoding.  Use your 110 for the rear channels, and your 160 for the fronts.  If budget is really limited, just get a cheapish AV receiver and use it like an AV2 etc.  I would suggest you go to the Naim website and download the AV2 manual for general guidance on how to integrate the 32.5/160 into an AV setup.

When you have decided which way to go, ask again for further advice.

Hi David, and Dungassin.
All right.
I'll try first to get an AV receiver.
Then, I'll download that manual on Naim web site, and finally, I'll try to wire that all up.
I doubt I'll make it, any way, if needed I'll  be back on forum.
I really thank you both for your advise.
Kind regards
Andrea

Andrea, it would be helpful to know exactly what your budget is,
and whether you are happy to buy used.   Before you buy anything, download the AV2 manual and look at it. If you don't understand it, ask for help again.  Incidentally the AV2 manual will talk about Unity Gain (AV) input on your stereo preamp.  You don't actually need this, but it does make it a a little easier.

Hi Dungassin,
I'm more than happy to buy s/h (it is stated in my opening post), and my budget is really tight: 100 quids more or less, will be fine.
I could stretch up to 150/180 if really really really needed.
I'm after a Yamaha dsp e800 right now. What do you think of it?
May I ask you to look better at my opening post? You seem to have the knowledge I miss . . . . perhaps, you could give me further guidance?
Many thanks for your kind support, really much appreciated
Kind regards
Andrea

Dungassin, just to make you laugh . . . I wasn't even able to find the manual you're referring to . . . imagine what will I be able to gather from it !!!

Hold it . .  I think I just found it it was under "old products". There a re schemes to set up with 2 power amps and 5 speakers

Yes.  That's the one - under Old Products.

My actual practical knowledge of setting up various AV processors is limited mainly to those I have actually owned - a huge Yamaha DS1 (I think that was the model no - it was the top of their range at the time), and the Naim AV2.  Other than that I have heard the top of the range Pioneer several times.

I am not familiar with the Yamaha DSP800, but it seems like a competent product, and doesn't have the "bits" you don't need. Can't see one on eBay ATM.  If you go for another AV receiver you will end up with power amplification you will never use.  Just make sure you get one with "preamplifier-out" so that you can do the following :

Basically what you do with a 5.1 (or 7.1) processor is to take a lead from the AV processor front L/R pre-out into a line input on your Naim preamp, and connect the other outputs from your processor as per its manual.  The 72 you mention doesn't have a Unity Gain (AV) input, so you will just have to remember to always set it to an easily remembered volume level when using it for AV sources (12 o'clock is easiest) so that its output will always be at the same level.  You should then set up the sound levels on your processor (again- refer to its manual).  A sound level meter is REALLY helpful here.  Buy or borrow one.  You can do it by ear, but it's not really very satisfactory.

Don't forget to budget for the connection lead from your AV processor to your Naim preamp. 

At the end of this procedure you will be using your Naim pre/power for the front L/R channels and the AV processor's amplification for the other channels.

You don't mention which Goodmans speakers you are using in this setup.  Are you sure they are really any better than the Linn Kans?  If you use the Linns on the rear channels you are probably going to finish up driving them with non-Naim amplification. You could use Linn Kans as the rears with a Naim poweramp to drive them, but that means budgeting for another connection lead from the AV processor's rear channel pre-outs into the Naim poweramp.  I haven't actually listened to a Goodmans speaker for more than 30 years, BTW!

You don't need a subwoofer or centre speaker if money is tight.  The AV processor should be capable of being adjusted so that it "knows" it doesn't have these things.

You may be able to get an AV processor with the high def audio codecs built in, but on a tight budget this is probably not the highest priority.

I think I've covered most of the points.  I seem to have given this guidance many times before. Perhaps I ought to put together a guide for integrating AV and stereo and get it posted in the FAQ section. 

Hi Dungassin, you really seem to know well what you're talking about . .
let me go carefully through your post, and I'll be back asap
kind regards and many thanks
andrea

Dungassin, Goodmans were bought in London in 1975 . . . they are" Havant SL 20 watts" and I'll be very surprised if you remember them,
Anyhow they are of my full satisfaction, and I think they could get along nicely with Kans.
If my Naim 72 doesn't have the gain or whatever it is, well I'll can do without, as you say.
But, I do have a 160 for the Goodmans, and could use the 110 I also have to power the Kans and a central speaker, linking it all via the AV.
How to link it, will see.
But I'm just satisfied to know it is possible to do it.
With a little help from my friends . .  all is possible, right?
Kind Regards
Andrea

Your Naim NAC72 is perfectly OK for the purpose of integrating into an AV system.  All it lacks is a Unity Gain input, but as I said, all you have to do is remember to always set it to the SAME volume setting when using it for multichannel sources with your AV processor.  I suggest 12 o'clock on the 72's volume control as this is easy to remember (just don't forget to turn it down when using the 72 for stereo sources, or your hearing may get a rude shock!).

What you do is use the 72's volume control for sources connected directly to the 72 (e.g. CD player, Tuner, turntable etc), and use the AV processor's volume control for your multichannel video sources.

So, what I suggest you do is as follows (assuming you wish to use the 110 for the Linn Kan rears)  I will assume you are using an AV processor with RCA phono sockets for the AV processor's preamplifier outs (I will refer to the AV processor as the AV amplifier, as I assume that you will be getting one with power amplification built in) :

Leave your 72/160, with your stereo sources still plugged into it.  The front speakers should be connected to the 160's speaker outlets (will work for stereo and AV sources.

Connect your DVD or bluray player, XBox360, PS3 etc to your AV amplifier (I would suggest using coaxial or optical digital connections.  If you opt for a bluray player and an AV processor with HiDef audio decoding then connect to the AV processor using HDMI cable(s).

Connect the front L/R preamplifier output sockets of the AV amplifier to one of the DIN line inputs on the 72.  You will need a 2 phono to DIN cable for this purpose.  Make sure you get a cable that is wired correctly.  Companies such as Fastback cables will supply you with the correct cable, but talk to them first and be SPECIFIC about what you want : phono at source output (AV processor end, and DIN at the
72 (input) end.   I would suggest that if in doubt get a 4 phono to DIN cable and use the appropriate 2 phonos  (those you would use for playback of a cassette deck)

Connect the AV amplifier's rear (or surround - READ THE MANUAL) preamplifier outputs to the input socket on the 110 using an identical lead as for the front L/R preamplifier outputs.  Connect your rear speakers to the 110's speaker outlet sockets.   If not using the 110 for the rear channels, just connect the AV amplifier's rear speaker sockets.

If you are using a Centre speaker, connect it to the Centre speaker output on the AV amplifier

If using a powered Sub (which is the most likely type), connect it using a single phono to phono lead to the AV amplifier.  (Yes, it only uses a single channel and does not need 2 phono to 2 phono).  Various companies sell appropriate 75 Ohm leads.

Beg, borrow or steal a sound level meter.  (if not, you'll have to try it by ear)

Put your listening chair in its desired position.

Set your 72 to its chosen AV input (as above) and set its volume control to your chosen setting (e.g. 12 o'clock).   Switch on the Naim equipment and the AV amplifier.

Sit down in your listening chair (with the Sound Level Meter if you have one).

Go through the speaker setup routine as in your AV amplifier's manual.   Depending on the AV amplifier you have, various options will be available.   You may need an assistant with a tape measure!
First you will usually have to tell the AV amplifier what speakers you have connected.  It will usually give options such as LARGE, SMALL or NONE.   I would suggest setting your speakers to LARGE.  If no centre speaker or subwoofer connected, remember to set these to NONE.

Next it may ask you about DISTANCE - this is why you need an assistant with a tape measure, so that you can set appropriate distances.

Then you set the speaker output levels.  Set your Sound Level Meter to an appropriate range (or just do it by ear).  Switch on the SPEAKER TEST mode on the AV amplifier and crank up the volume on the AV amplifier to e.g. 80dB.   Then use the speaker level adjustments on the AV amplifier so that they all give the same output level.   When finished, SAVE your settings (if your AV amplifier needs that step), switch your AV amplifer Speaker setup routine off.   Insert a DVD (or bluray disc) in your player, and enjoy the results of your labours.  

Hope that covers it.

Dungassin it certainly does cover it!!!!
I have to find out if the Yamaha I'm after has a HDMI connection . . . I'm using a PS3.
And, a sound advise for central speaker.
The guy selling the Yamaha had it connected to a naim 140, so he selling the right cable too . . . tha is good.
All I need is central speaker, 15 more meters of naca4, and that is it.
Well, I also need to find out if the Yamaha comes with a manual . . . .
See Dungassin, I think you should really propose your text for the FAQs
Thanks a lot, I'll let you know how it goes . . . the AV I'm looking for is in UK, it will take a while to get here. And still I miss the speaker cable. So it will take a while before I'm back I guess.
Thanks again and kind regards
andrea

Hi Dungassin, see please here below the rear of Yamaha.
It seems does not have HDMI connection.
It has optical, it is better than HDMI?
I think PS3 has optical output.
http://www.superfi.co.uk/images/DSPE...r_1150x338.JPG
it is HDMI really relevant to sound and picture quality?
cheers
andrea

For your purposes, HDMI is really only necessary if you want to decode High Def Audio Codecs (DTS Master Audio, Dolby True HD).  Just use the optical connection from the PS3 - you'll probably be perfectly happy with that.

As regards HDMI being better or worse than Optical/Coaxial :  You'll receive conflicting answers ranging to both extremes "no different" or "really matters".  This is along with the old favourite "are expensive digital cables worth the money?".    Personally I have never used HDMI to carry digital audio (my AV2 doesn't have HDMI inputs) so can't comment.   You will need HDMI for High Definition video (or component).  I would suggest that you connect your PS3 to the TV using HDMI, and to the AV Processor/Amplifier using the optical lead.

This is basically what I do with my gear : HDMI where available to connect to TV,  Optical or Coaxial Digital to connect to my AV2.  Also connect my Oppo 83SE (which has its own High Def Audio decoders) using its multichannel audio outputs into the VI2 and VI2 inputs on the AV2.   (probably not relevant for you, as the PS3 does not have such outputs - although you can get an external third party box which will enable that).

Incidentally, make sure your PS3 has the latest firmware (connect to your Internet Router and follow the on-screen instructions of the AV2 to do this (refer to the Manual).   If you do go down the High Def Audio route with your PS3, IIRC you have to have the latest PS3 firmware (of course, I could be wrong - I no longer have a PS3).