New Carlton Thread

Good to see you back in the saddle. Take care out there, man. How are the ESLs sounding in the new place? Post pix.

Dear winki,

I am finding solutions to exercising my knee which my brain lacks confidence in! Today I walked over 100 yards very slowly with the crutches forcing both legs to step over imaginary hurdles a foot high, and totally straightening the legs [actually that part is still painful on the bad leg] goose-step fashion before bringing the feet down in controlled slow fashion. The consequence of this is that I now have the confidence to walk without the sticks! Amazing. It is confidence not strength that is at issue, though the right leg is rather weak.

The ESLs! Bliss! Today I heard both Ovator S400s and QUAD ESL 2805s. And you know that my fave is still my old ESL 57s. They get something that both these more modern speakers miss completely. That is a total connection with the music that comes from a solid - not airy and spaced out "hifi" - presentation. I still hate that. Even a 78 acoustic [hand-wound] gramophone is better than too much imaging, and as my 57s are arranged, they simply do not image at all. Ultra low distortion and great timbres, lightning articulation and dynamics, and naturally vague [and sometimes almost no] directionality in a very compact sound-stage, except in mono where there is only a sense of the performance "over there, some distance behind the front of the speakers" in what is presented as a large space with a compactly sited group of players. The big [in mono or stereo] orchestra is epic in its presentation, but still totally coherent and as compact as they would be in in real life!

Only radio speech is presented as from the distance of the speakers from the ear, which is very nice for radio!

I'll see if I can get GML to post a few ESL pictures on this thread as my eccentricity of setting up is more suitable for the Padded Cell than the Hifi Corner by now I think!

I might guess that I'll never get the Carlton to 30 mph again. I only ever did it once for absolutely certain, so something to remeber rather than achieve again I think! 28 perhaps! Natural caution will take a bigger part of the reckoning in the future, even if my speed had no part in the crash. In fact if I had been going faster, he might have missed me!

ATB from George

Home to the ESLs for 15 minutes through Worcester.......

Jono

George,

Great to hear you're recovering so well. What a time to move house! When you're finally able to ride your bicycle again it will be good therapy for your leg. There is nothing like cycling for strengthening your quadriceps muscles which will help with stabilisation.

In this day and age, with the I-Pod and texting generation you have to be extra careful on the roads as Hook intimated. Treat EVERY road user and pedestrian as if they're idiots capable of doing anything. During my cycling and motorcycling years I've had 4 accidents, none my fault. Luckily the worst injury was a fractured patella.

Work hard strengthening that leg George and enjoy those ESLs.

ATB

Steve

Dear Jono,

The ESLs could not have had a better Taxi from old to new residence! Thanks for your help on that as obviously they were something of a worry!

The new place suits them really well. Actually much better than before. If one can easily criticise the 57s it is for they lack of heft!

They sound well filled out here. I could not ask for more!

GML is going to put up some pix for me of them later! Though they are still where you put them, and the position is right to within inches! 

One thing that has come out of this thread is just how kind people are and that is enough to restore faith in the generality of human nature!

Thanks to everyone who has helped me and been encouraging over the last few weeks  ...

ATB from George

George, you're a star!

As may be seen the staircase provides the necessary space behind the dipole ESLs without them loosing me much space in what is by no means a baronial hall! 

This works about as well any any speaker set up I have ever heard!

With them essentially as close as possible together stereo becomes very natural and lacking exageration, and having them fire straight rather than toed in means there is no sweet spot with everything else being less good. Like this everyone get something just as fine. A really sociable chance to present friends with a grand replay that is just as nice over a wide angle.

Very happy with my new place and getting outside for the first time without sticks a few minutes ago. Slow of course, but the question is confidence as much as anything!

Very best wishes to everyone who has helped, supported, or even had nice thoughts when reading this!

ATB from George

Good to have you back on the interweb thingy George.

Best wishes for your continuing recovery.

John.

Sorry to hear about your accident, George.  Glad you are on the mend and this has not deterred you from cycling.  Best wishes on your recovery. 

Best regards,

Pat

Dear John,

Fixedwheel suggested the economic solution: A mobile internet dongle on the "3" network ... It is very good!

Plug and play as all these things should be!

This morning I thought I had really overdone it last week, but after a nap this afternoon, I can feel real progress with my leg. I did ride 12 miles on the cycle on Thursday and Friday, but now I shall feel confident about stopping and putting my leg down! Can't be bad!

ATB from George

PS Thanks Pat and Steve for your kind wishes!

Glad to have had a good chat with you George a couple of weeks back.  So pleased to hear that you're making progress.  Keep your spirits up, we're on your side!

George, as a fellow bicyclist, I am glad you are still with us.

It does strike me (pun) that getting run over is a very dangerous upgrade strategy...

"Plug and play as all these things should be!"

Ha! The eminent Fixedwheel told me that UPnP stands for 'Universal Plug and Pray'

Glad it's working for you George.

John.

Well the internet service is back after a hiatus [anten, I expect] yesterday, so now the best news so far.

Yesterday I walked over a mile without the crutches!

That is ten days after my first talk to the physiotherapist. She said it would be three weeks to even more than six weeks! My next physio is a week today, and by then I reckon they might just say that I am good enough to get on with it without further help. Then to see the consultant at the end of the month ...

Hopefully that will be an end to it! Then just to build myself up to full strength again, which will taken a bit longer I expect.

ATB from George

congratulations.

When I had a knee injury at the age of 18, it took me almost a year to fully recover. (Knee dislocation during Karate practice). Still hurts sometime when I walk too fast too long, even now after 18 years....

So, what modern day speakers come closest to your ESLs?

Dear MM,

I have been working the joint and now have full movement, though still painfull when pulled back to my bottom, at least the last inch, but it is getting better by the day.

Of the speakers that I have heard, I'd say that the ESL 2805s are the closest in quality terms, and of course are properly capable of big volume, and have a big bass sound when required. In comparison their bass is not more extended, but simply more prominent. In terms of absolute truth of instrumental timbres and vocal brilliance, I don't think the new speaker eclipses the 57, even now.It is very close, but for a smaller room the 57s probably still wear the crown, if the listener can accept that they can never make staium levels of sound. But in a way music that really should be that loud really requires a conventional speaker with cones. After all the music will all have passed through cones in the first place, so little subtlety will be lost, whereas with quieter traditional un-amplified instruments and human voices - well that is where ESLs really show their quality, IMO.

There is a very good reason why ESLs have not taken over to any large degree at the high end of speakers. There are some very fine coned speakers, though by now I have not one that I have heard that I would swap my 57s for! And if I had a bigger room, I'd stack 57s as a first choice!

Not everyone loves 57s though as the recent 2805 thread in the main section showed, and I can understandd that. Thier strengths do match everyone's taste or expectations, but if you do love them, then no other speaker is likely to eclipse them. Perhaps, another Marmite speaker!

ATB from George

I think a key point with your love of the ESL's George, is that they were designed on, and excel with your choice of music in small to medium sized rooms.

Paradoxically, I think they actualy 'do' rock music very well because of their transparency and speed. They just get frustrating in terms of bass extension and higher volume requirements.

Like you; it never ceases to amaze me that they posses some qualities which have not, in 50+ years been equalled or eclipsed.

Thank you Mr Peter Walker.

John.

Dear John,

You know my musical enthusiasms, even if you may not exactly share them! 

And for me the ESL 57s are indeed the most perfect speakers that I could possibly ever get - or so it seems from my experience of listening to every opportunity in retailers to the alternatives!

Just been playing with Radio Three on HD internet. Seems to be pretty much up to good VHF standards, though inevitably as different from it as is CD from LP.

The ESLs seem very suitable for this ultra-refined style of broadcasting!

ATB from George

The Carlton is proving a wonderfully stable and docile mount for my steady first attempts at getting back in the saddle! I cannot imagine many lightweights [okay lightweight in terms of the 1970s!] being quite so easy at walking pace plus half again!

One advantage is that is is very responsive so does not require a lot of heft to keep it rolling slowly. The Elswick [on bottom gear] was far more resistant, and might have defeated me at this stage, whereas the Carlton allows me to do as much as I can, and leaves a big potential to get back up to speed as I strengthen up!

ATB from George

I envy you. Looks like you've found your 'sound'.

Dear MM,

I knew that I had nailed it last summer when JN let me listen to his beautiful second system with Nait and ESL 57s. Since then I have been refining! There is not much to improve now - just the little USB DAC, and I did a dem about three weeks ago for a suitable candidate!

Yes, I am very lucky to find what is really my ideal replay set! I suspect that this situation does put me in a small minority to be honest!

Best wishes from George

Do try the rega dac before you buy the arcam rdac.

Dear MM,

Nothing is inscribed in stone as to what DAC I will get. The Arcam did "very well indeed," but I have a sort of plan to possibly wait longer, and as the NDS will displace the nDAC as the top DAC from Naim, it may be possible to nail one of these as second hand, which is what I would really like to do. I am still a Naim enthusiast, even if it is mostly too expensive [in absolute terms] for me!

But a Naim DAC onto a Nait 5i onto Quad ESL 57s would be a pretty much vintage great set, wouldn't it!?

ATB from George

Just give it a listen. That's all I ask. ;-)