Walcha plays Bach (and not on the pianoforte)
Posted by: Tam on 19 May 2006
Before reading anything I might have to say on this, I strongly recommend you take a look at these two thread from Fredrik:
Walcha Plays BachBach NOT on the pianoforteI did consider e-mailing Adam and asking him to unlock those threads but since I want to talk about both and he probably has better things to do with his time anyway, I thought I would start another.
Now, on the first of those threads, I went into some detail as to why I didn't much care for Bach's keyboard work as played on the harpsichord, so it is only reasonable to ask why I've started this thread.
Well, today a
box set I ordered turned up (which for inexcusable reasons best known to EMI is not available here and thus had to be purchased from Amazon.fr). So what made me turn around and buy 5 discs of Bach on the harpsichord (including the Goldbergs, the Well Tempered and some fillers)? Partly it was my respect for Walcha's artistry. Thanks to Fredrik, I have had the opportunity to hear his wonderful organ account of the Art of Fugue and was much impressed by it. The second thing was a short while back CD Review played some of a new recording of the Goldbergs made on harpsichord and couldn't see why I disliked the idea as much as I had done. In fairness, I've always had something of a fascination with the harpsichord going back some years - my neighbours used to have one in their living room when I was growing up (and I used to get in trouble if I tried to play it - but I found the sound the keys made fascinating). However, the dislike I had for the instrument must have come from hearing it poorly played somewhere (since I'm sure it can sound samey and it does inherently lack the range of the piano as discussed in Fredrik's thread). However, the performance on CD Review made me wonder if I'd been a little unfair to it and that perhaps I should give it another go.
Well, the box arrived today and I've listened to the Goldbergs and they are wonderful. Fredrik suggests they're very swift but I don't feel they're rushed. I was also pleasantly surprised by the range of sounds Walcha generates from his instrument. What is nice about the harpsichord is that, in freeing the music of the inevitable mannerisms of the piano, all that is left is the music. And I find I simply can't shake it out of my head.
So, should Bach always be performed on the harpsichord and not the piano. No. I remain very fond of my Barenboim Well Tempered and while I've never especially got on with either of the Gould Goldbergs I am sure that there must be wonderful piano accounts about (it's just a case of getting round to buying them - so let's not use this thread for recommending those as we have recently had one doing just that). No, more the point is to suggest that I think hearing this music on an instrument similar to one Bach would have intended (and so different from modern pianos) gives an understanding into it that would be hard, if not impossible to get otherwise. In short, I think people shouldn't be put off the harpsichord and could do a lot worse than spend the 20 or so pounds it costs to have this one shipped from France. While people may prefer the piano (and a piano account I regard as really great - though Hewitt, spotted at budget price, is on its way - I don't feel in a position to comment as to whether I prefer one or the other), they should nevertheless hear it on the harpsichord too.
I do intend to comment further on this set, and in particular on some of the things that really impressed me about it (and there were many), but I wasn't really noting which variations they were so it will have to wait until I've had another listen (which I shall be doing soon - this is a really great set).
regards Tam
Posted on: 19 May 2006 by Tam
One additional note - if you click on the link in the above post to Amazon.fr, you can listen to samples (albeit only 30 seconds long) from every track on the set.
regards, Tam
Posted on: 19 May 2006 by pe-zulu
quote:
Originally posted by Tam:
What is nice about the harpsichord is that, in freeing the music of the inevitable mannerisms of the piano, all that is left is the music.
the point is to suggest that I think hearing this music on an instrument similar to one Bach would have intended (and so different from modern pianos) gives an understanding into it that would be hard, if not impossible to get otherwise.
Dear Tam
Just that. People, who are complaining, that the harpsichord is an inexpressive instrument, don´t realize, that the means of expression are others than on the piano. And surely the harpsichord was very often in the early days of revival played mechanical and inexpressive, often being played by frustrated pianists, supporting the claim of inexpressivity.
I recall the time, when I discovered Walchas Bach recordings, and my reaction was very similar to yours. I had the same feeling of discovering the music, which since then has been an inexaustible source of pleasure for me.
Regards,
Posted on: 19 May 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear Friends,
Though I only was lucky enough to have access to these recordings in the last two years, I have generally prefered the Harpsichord as the instrument of choice for the non-organ keyboard music of Bach for a very long time.
This is not a curiosity. It is essential. Anyone who simply thinks that the piano sounds nicer has an ear and mind opening experience to come, if they approach this with an open mind!
Good hunting folks, from fredrik!
Posted on: 19 May 2006 by Tam
Out of interest (and this is looking to the slightly longer term, as I suspect this set will keep me going for a long time), are there any recommendations for harpsichord renditions of other Bach keyboard work (since Walcha's English and French suites are even tougher to track down than his Well Tempered and Goldbergs)? I spotted a DG Original Masters containing recordings by Kirkpatrick - they get a rather lukewarm writeup in the penguin guide (but since they seem to prefer the piano in this repertoire anyway, I suspect they're of limited use.
regards, Tam
Posted on: 19 May 2006 by pe-zulu
Dear Tam
Kirkpatricks interpretations are brilliant, powerfull and colourful, almost orchestral in the registrations. They are shorter phrased than Walchas, and they give a more homophonic impression. Well worth listening to, but neither a first nor a second choice I think.
You might also consider the content of my email yesterday.
My first recommendation for the partitas and English suites is Gustav Leonhardt (either of his recordings, the first for Seon, now Sony, and the second for EMI now Virgin)) but Walcha is strongly recommendable too, and I would say, that for me both are indispensable. Neither Walcha nor Leonhardt have their most fortunate moments in the French suites, Walchas are a tad too stiff in this intime music, and Leonhardts even a tad to serious. For these suites I would recommend Koopman (Erato) or Alan Curtis, a most distinguished Leonhardt pupil, who made an equally distinguished set of English suites (both for Teldec).
I find that Koopman´s French suites seem to be out of order, and the same is true of Leonhardts first recording of the Partitas (on Sony). These are references for the others. I swear to Jpc, they list many things others don´t, but maybe you can find the items otherwhere.
Still consider the content of my email.
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/5005541/rk/classic/rsk/hitlisthttp://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/3707104/rk/classic/rsk/hitlisthttp://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/8839107/rk/classic/rsk/hitlisthttp://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/5684357Kindest regards,
Posted on: 20 May 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear Tam,
Grand Topic!
I looked up those old thread you linked to as well. Yes they are relevant.
On the issue of Walcha being swift in the Goldbergs, I thing the only part which moves along swiftly is the Aria at the begining. It is not rushed but very direct. It seems the perfect speed to me, and avoids any hint of labouring for effect, which is hardly needed in music so pregnant with expression and life! It is rather a false aim in such well made music to really work hard to make it seem more so!
Really I am so glad to see others make these discoveries...
Fredrik
Posted on: 20 May 2006 by Tam
Dear Fredrik,
I suppose I do agree about the tempo of the aria, and it is swift in the sense that many (especially piano) interpretations I have heard tend to wallow in it much more. But Walcha's tempo does not actually feel slow - indeed, one of the fine things about the reading is that his tempi tend to feel 'right'. (Certainly not always the case with, say, Mr Gould).
Dear pe-zulu,
Thanks for those recommendations. I will reply to your e-mail when I am back from work (as I only have it on my home computer - long story).
regards, Tam
p.s. Still can't shake those Goldbergs from my head. - Note to others: Buy these discs, you will not regret it. Also, have a listen to the start of the 1st prelude from Book 1 of the Well Tempered, wonderfully moving (so much so that it almost belongs on Fredrik's 'moving to tears' thread) - as mentioned above, all tracks are sampled on the amazon.fr site.
Posted on: 21 May 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear Friends,
As these are available currently, I can only second Tam's recomendation!
The Well tempered Clavier is a a most wonderful traversal, and the Goldbergs, really the most splendid type of reading in Walcha's hands.
I listened to the Goldberg set yesterday in the morning, and it is one of those readings which draws you in and takes you through with such concentration that the duration seems short!
All the best from Fredrik
Posted on: 21 May 2006 by Tam
Fredrik is quite right as regards the pace of the Goldbergs (still haven't had time to give the Well Tempered a proper listen). There is something very odd (though in a good way). On paper (and I'll have to check when I get home to be sure) this is the longest reading I have on disc (longer than both Gould ones), presumably because Walcha is taking all (? Fredrik) repeats. However, the set seems to rush by and yet do so without the playing actually seeming rushed.
I know that doesn't probably read terribly coherently but I reallly don't think I can do any better. The long and the short of it is that this is a magical set of Goldbergs and for £20 all the way from France it's money well spent, let alone that you also get the whole Well Tempered.
One final note. It is a shame that EMI haven't been so active at getting their back catalogue out as have DG. I suspect if all these performances were on the yellow label we would have had a nice original masters box containing the suites as well as these. Ah well....
regards, Tam
Posted on: 21 May 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear Tam,
Not quite all the repeats, but such is the way it goes and the care taken with leaving them out, that I never notice the omissions. The second time the Aria comes at the end is, for example, played once through, and is subtlely different to the first time, I think you will agree. Not a cut and paste edit job!
What I think our attempts to describe the pacing do show is how it is really impossible to characterise something that seems so right. Nothing sticks out or seems mannered, but the music making attracks me (and others, I guess) right into the piece on an other level to seemingly passively listening...
Words fail me, actually...
Fredrik
Posted on: 21 May 2006 by pe-zulu
quote:
Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:
Not quite all the repeats, but such is the way it goes and the care taken with leaving them out, that I never notice the omissions. The second time the Aria comes at the end is, for example, played once through, and is subtlely different to the first time,
Fredrik
Dear Fredrick and Tam,
In the original Odeon LP pressing he makes all the repeats, except in the last Aria da capo. I haven´t listened to the French EMI CD rerelease in toto yet, but would be surprised and chocked ,if French EMI had cut some of the original repeats.
Regards,
Posted on: 21 May 2006 by pe-zulu
quote:
Originally posted by Tam:
One final note. It is a shame that EMI haven't been so active at getting their back catalogue out as have DG. I suspect if all these performances were on the yellow label we would have had a nice original masters box containing the suites as well as these. Ah well....
Dear Tam
You may be right but not necessarily so. We still miss some of DG´s (Archives) original important recordings from the 1950es, e.g. August Wenzingers Brandenburgs, his Machaut Mass with Ernst Häfliger and Jacob Stämpfli from the 1960es, and his contemporary Gabrieli recording, and Ralph Kirkpatricks Bach Toccatas and his Bach WTC played on harpsichord (only his clavichord version has been released); even Pinnocks Bach Toccatas from the 1970es have not been rereleased on CD, and there are many other examples. The most relevant example is, that Walchas second WTC for Archiv (early 1970es) only has been rereleased on CD by French DG, and it is only available at Amazon.fr. Well, the EMI version is that much better.
Regards,
Posted on: 24 May 2006 by Tam
******
Posted on: 24 May 2006 by Tam
Dear Friends,
Well, I have just listend to the Goldbergs again (probably the third or fourth time since they arrived last week). That should, perhaps, give an indication of just how fine this disc is. I get, maybe, one or two discs a year that I can't stop playing in this way.
I implore anyone who doesn't believe the range of expression of the harpsichord is significant to listen to the sample (link given in my first post) of variation 19 - they sound the instrument makes is almost akin to a guitar. Indeed, it occured to me how interesting the work might be arranged for [presumably] two guitars. This is perhaps the most obvious example, but there are many more througout the reading: in variation 27 it sounds almost as though his two hands are playing on different instruments (I would point more out, but the music is so captivating I have not managed to make any such notes while listening).
I assume (and doubtless those here who understand the instrument better than I do can enlighten me further) that this is due to which stops are being engaged. Actually - I would be curious to know what exactly harpsichord stops do/how they work (I keep reading about such things as 16 foot stops, but I have little idea what that means).
I think one of the reason these (and, very possibly, harpsichord readings in general) can be so persuasive is that while they don't lack for emotion and colour they preserve the structure in a way that can easily get lost on the piano - I almost feel that the score is getting printed into mind - I just cannot shake some of these tunes (and not simply because I've been playing the disc so much - it was there after one spin).
This set is probably some of the best money I have spent all year and I haven't even got on to the Well Tempered yet.
On an interesting side note, CD Review today (and you can listen again should you wish) played the whole of Tureck's account. The tempi were tortuously slow and I couldn't stop thinking how this would never really work on a harpsichord. What amazed me even more was that this piano rendition seemed to lack colour in contrast to Walcha - which is interesting given the common complaint against the harpsichord is it lacks range and variety.
regards, Tam
p.s. Apologies to anyone baffled by the previous post - I borrowed this thread in order to post my e-mail address for someone on the Radio 3 forum (where such exchanges are not allowed).
Posted on: 24 May 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear Tam,
You are succeeding where I failed, in advocating the harpsichord. Bravo!
And dear frends, all I can say is Tam is spot on.
Once you listen to this set, or indeed some of the other really fine ones on the Harpsichord, as likely as not you will ask yourself why anyone would bother with the piano in this music, which point led to a whole Thread initiated by myself last Autumn!
Fredrik [Huge low bandwidth smiley]!
Posted on: 24 May 2006 by Tam
Dear Fredrik,
You sell yourself short. After all, but for your advocacy, I would never have acquired the set in the first place.
regards, Tam
Posted on: 25 May 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear Tam,
Different voices can be selected on Harpsichords, somewhat like the stops on an organ.
The big two manual harpsichord has two key boards which play the four and eight foot stop strings. Eight foot sounds at the pitch written and the four foot sounds an octave high (and if there are pedals as on some very rare instruments a sixteen foot stop is possible as well).
Often a Lute stop is found as a voice on the eight foot strings, which is a most lovely voice in my view. There are many possible combinations, and even the chance of using a coupler to play both four and eight foot strings from one manual, so in some ways it is hardly a surprise to find you experiencing more variety of tonal colour in the harpsichord than a piano!
I am so glad you are enjoying this discovery! Bravo!
All the best from Fredrik
Posted on: 25 May 2006 by Tam
Dear Fredrik,
Thanks for this, fascinating as ever. This neatly explains an effect I think I noted above where Walcha seems to be producing a completely different texture with each hand.
I listened to book one of the Well Tempered today. All I can say is that it did not disappoint.
regards, Tam
Posted on: 25 May 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear Tam,
The bigger treat is the Well Tempered Clavier! That will entertain you for a lifetime!
There are times when things make me so happy! Fredrik
Posted on: 25 May 2006 by Tam
Dear Fredrik,
I think you are right. I think Bach's fugues (whether it be in the Well Tempered or in his organ writing) are the kind of music for which love and understanding only deepen after multiple listens - there is just so much there. The Goldbergs, on the other hand, have a way of washing over you completely from the first notes. I wouldn't want to be without either.
It's funny, a month ago I never would have dreamed it of a harpsichord, but this set (or at the very least something from it) would be on my desert island discs.
regards, Tam
Posted on: 25 May 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear Tam,
Please will you do me one small favour now? Post a link to Amazon. Fr to this set and also post a link to my impassionaed thread: "Bach NOT on the Pianoforte!"
It seems like the moment, and it may have a reasonable chance of inciting the bravery necesaary for others to find this! It is so special, and the start of a lifetime of discovery of the Old Testament of keyboard music!
Fredrik
Posted on: 25 May 2006 by Tam
Dear Fredrik,
As requested:
Bach NOT on the pianofortethe set on Amazon.frI have tried (and failed) to post a direct link to variation 19 from the Goldbergs which I mentioned a few posts back - for anyone who doubts the range of the instrument. However, it is easily found from the above link and is track 20 on disc 5.
regards, Tam
Posted on: 25 May 2006 by hungryhalibut
As you know, I am a Bach novice. Following excellent advice here, I bought a few CDs, including the Goldbergs on piano (Angela Hewitt)and harpsichord (Pierre Hantai). I much prefer the harpsichord - it sounds more 'right' to me, and more involving.
Nigel
Posted on: 25 May 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear Nigel,
It is amazing! I even parted with the fantstic playing of Tatianna Nicholeaeva (also Hyperion) after finding the Walcha performance. I have Leonhardt, and (my second favourite after Walcha) Hantaii on harpsichord, but Walcha clinched the issue for me. I think you may find Tam's link above compelling, and I am not talking of of the passionate ramblings of an old fool, by the way!
Fredrik! [One huge happy low bandwidth smilay]
Posted on: 28 May 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear Tam,
I hope you are okay! Lovely sunshine here in Hereford, but I have not seen a post from you for a day or two (though I may have missed them).
On the other hand it may just be that the 48 (WTC) has mugged you and you have time for nothing else just at the moment!
[Smiley]! Fredrik
