Sky HD and 1080p TVs - is it worth it?

720p scales up to 1080p in a nice fractional multiple (2:3), so few if any 1080p sets* should have a problem. However, there are very few, if any, plasmas with a 1280x720p native resolution, such that any 720-line signal will need to be scaled (H & V 15:16 @ 1366x768) to fill the screen (with the exception of some 1366x768 Pioneer displays which will letterbox a 720-line image without vertical scaling, nice).

This ultimately leaves picture quality subject to the quality of the built-in scaler on the display, or, that built into the satellite receiver–which is hardly as good as an outboard scaler box.

I use an over-the-air (freeview to you folks) HD tuner fed via HDMI into a 46" 1080p LCD set, and though it required a fair bit of adjustment to get right, the PQ is stunning on both 720p and 1080i sources (and it also makes a great computer monitor, to boot).

* - 1920x1080p native resolution

Ok,

All current HD broadcasts via Sky or Cable are in 1080i.

If you have a 1080P panel then it'll simply de-interlace that signal to 1080P and show you an image.

On the other hand, if you have a 720P screen (with 720 or 768 lines of resolution) then you can EITHER tell your SKY/V+ box to downscale the image to 720P... OR you can let your TV do it.

SKY HD boxes output standard def TV as a standard def resolution... so the picture quality is eavily reliant on the screen's internal scaler.

V+ boxes will upscale ALL TV watched to either 720P or 1080i depending on what you've watched - I have a V+ box at home hooked to a 1080P screen - my TV only deinterlaces whatever it is I watch via cable.

Incidentally, a friend has the same screen as I but hooked to a SKY HD box.... we both agree that the standard def footage looks better from the cable box than SKY... and that the channels available on freeview tuners in our sets look better this way than via the SKY HD box... but at their best via cable.

1080P is the reserve of bluray/hddvd

HD TV is shot interlaced - movies shot on film are much better looking as progressive scan masters, so that's where this technology holds its' future.

Hope this helps

Mike

quote:

HD TV is shot interlaced

Not so, wish it was that easy.

It is very important to make distinctions between acquisition, editing, delivery and broadcast formats.

1080i is, loosely speaking, a broadcast format.

Some consumer HDV cameras also acquire 1080i video, as alternating 540-line images. Other consumer HDV camcorders acquire video at 720p, at various frame rates. There's even a distinction between what comes off the CCD sensors and what gets stored on tape!

Film can also be an acquisition format for HDTV (typically 24p, resolution dependent on the digital telecine process), among others.

Don't forget, too, that CGI images can be used as source material, at WHATEVER resolution and frame rate they're generated at.

These are some, among many, issues of frame rate that never seem to be explained properly to end-users shopping for HDTVs–far beyond the scope of this primitive explanation. (Perhaps Chris Bell can chime in on this.)

Over here, OTA HD broadcasts can look way better than DirecTV or Dish Network satellite inasmuch as they're not subjected to additional compression (in the interest of providing more content options, versus absolute faithfulness to the original streams). Cable HD providers are even worse, as in some cases they are mandated by local licensing authorities to provide a minimum number of channels that, without re-processing, would far exceed the available bandwidth on the cable feed. (In fact, many channels that would simply be a low-quality, low-bandwith sideband on a terrestrial station's carrier look substantially better on analog cable than on digital cable, with a good box.)

A dedicated HD OTA tuner can provide even better performance than the built-in one on some sets–I use a Samsung DTB-H260F, which allows me to send an HDMI signal into the set (sans overscan).

WOW!

Ok, I bow down.

Would you agree, however, that a 1080i broadcast only having to be de-interlaced is better than having to downscale it as well?

Mike

Yes.

OTOH, as written elsewhere in this Forum, 720p material will look better for motion-intensive content–perhaps even on a 1080p display!

It's a trade-off between the quality of the source material and the quality, individually, of both the scaler and de-interlacer functions in the display (or outboard processor).

Over here, ABC and Fox broadcast @ 720p, HBO, NBC, PBS and CBS broadcast @ 1080i, BTW.

Thanks for your help guys. I've taken the plunge and ordered my Sky HD box which I'm assured will be easy to replace my Sky plus box with.

Next step will be the TV and I think the 37" Panny Plasma gets it over the 1080p Sharp LCD - purely because I watch a lot of sport and it seemed to handle motion better. Otherwise, I thought they both looked great.

Thanks again.

Steve

Might be to late for Steve S1 but I just got a Sky HD box off fleebay installed it myself replacing my Sky+ box (simply swap the cables over, replace scart lead with HDMI and follow a few basic installation instructions) total time taken 20 mins including validating card with new box and upgrading subscription via sky. Saving approx £190 on Sky advertised prices.

Hi Trevor,

Not too late - that's where mine is coming from!

Cheers,

Steve

My Sky+ box is beginning to have a few problems. So I might need to replace it - can I use a Sky HD box as a regular Sky+ box without using the HD service and using a HD screen. This would get me partially ready for when I have to get a newer TV without having to prematurely retire a Sky+ box

Great news Steve. Didn't think I could be the only one reluctant to pay £60 to have someone swap over 7 cables and make a phone call.

Derek - Yes you can use a Sky HD box with your existing Sky+ subscription. You should be able to view BBC HD but none of the Sky HD channels without upgrading your subscription. You will also need to pair you existing card with the new box by telling sky.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve S1:
Hi Trevor,

Not too late - that's where mine is coming from!

Cheers,

Steve

you may have both just bought 1 from me.

not forgetting that the BBC HD channel is mainly an advert for HD, although they do have alot of football on(when it's on normal BBC1)

By way of an update, my Sky HD and Panasonic Plasma TH37PX70 are now set up and I'm delighted with the results.

The particular strengths that appeal to me is that the HD is fantastic but the standard pictures are not bad at all. This had been a concern, given that there will be a lot of standard output for sometime to come.

The HD was great for the Cup Final - shame it was a crap game.

Thanks for the info and help.

Steve

Hi Steve
I have been thinking about SkyHd but we live ina block of flats with a shared Sky dish. Did you have Sky before and if so is the HD box connected via the same dish?

If you want to use the full range of facilities of an HD box then you will need a dish with 2 feeds.

If not then you can still watch HD programmes but you won't be able to record anything else at the same time or record 2 programmes at the same time etc.

Well I could live with that! Thanks guys.

Chris - go for the double feed and get the flexibility of Sky + while you are at it.

Derek
I live in a flat and the dish is a communal one. Not sure how feasible it is.

Chris - if it is anything like a set up I am aware of locally locally - a contractor is responsible for plumbing in the service and they add additional dishes etc as and when needed to maximise the revenue flow to them selves and to Sky. You will probably buy the HD or Sky + box thru the contractor.

True. I shall investigate. You exIBMers think of everything!

Oh Chris you have revealed my dark and shameful secret

You came out a long while back Derek! Anyhow, I have the same shameful past, though only the M Plan to show for it!

Chris

What is your email address - mine is in my profile