The BBC Scottish and others play Sibelius

Posted by: Tam on 03 September 2006

The more eagle-eyed readers may recall that in my Edinburgh thread I mentioned a stunning concert I attended last Sunday. The icing on the cake following Mackerras in Beethoven 8 and an extraordinary piece of Messiaen was to pick up the last remaining flyer in the Usher Hall (or, upstairs, at least) for the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra's autumn season, the star attraction of which is a Sibelius cycle (and now that my tickets are safely booked, I thought I'd give it a plug). Indeed, it was odd as only a few days earlier I was waxing lyrical about this year's concert series which featured just a single work in each concert (and made up the Bruckner and Beethoven cycles, and the middle concerts) and that next year wouldn't it be interesting to have Sibelius and Dvorak cycles.

Sadly, they are only doing it in Glasgow (with the first concert repeated in Aberdeen and the second in Birmingham - which features Kullervo and the 3rd). But it will be nice to see and hear the new concert hall, and given the 7:30 start it should be possible to make it over. They take place every Thursday, from the 9th onward) in November and full details can be found here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/musicscotland/bbcsso/conc.../index.shtml?2006/11

There was (on the flyer, at any rate) a discount price for the series with prices from 73 down to I think around 35 for the 4 concert series plus the Sunday talk/performance of the second. For some reason this option didn't seem to be available if booking on line, but I would imagine you can phone the box office for it.

For those who can't make it, I imagine they will broadcast it on Radio 3.

Partly in preparation, partly because I've just been waiting for an excuse, I have taken the opportunity to add a few more Sibelius cycles to my collection. Sakari Oramo's wonderful festival appearance make me finally get round to ordering his with the CBSO (along with fond memories of hearing them do the 7th). I have also grabbed the earlier Davis/LSO cycle (as it was madly cheap on Amazon) and, as I know Fredrik is very keen on it, the Barbirolli. So, as well as reporting back on the concerts, I shall, when they arrive, use this thread to survey them.


regards, Tam
Posted on: 09 February 2007 by Basil
Dear Tam,

The Jansons Sibelius 3 & 5 is on EMI - 7243 - 5 55533 - 2.

Superb sound and an even better performance.

Seeing as we seem to agree about the Volkov performance of Tapiola (and the 4th symphony), I'm hopeful you will enjoy Karajan.
Posted on: 10 February 2007 by Tam
Dear Basil,

The Karajan (the DG reading, as it came coupled with the symphonies 4-7) and the Jansons (a two disc set that also has the 2nd and one or two fillers), so I shall report back in due course:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sibelius-Symphonies-Nos-4-7-Jea...9000?ie=UTF8&s=music

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sibelius-Tone-Poems-symphonies-...2058?ie=UTF8&s=music


regards, Tam
Posted on: 10 February 2007 by Basil
Dear Tam,

A word of caution, the Karajan Tapiola you've ordered is the 1964 recording, which I've never heard and therefore cannot recommend.

My first choice would be the EMI recording

P.S

I see you found a performance of the second symphony with the Oslo philharmonic, I'm very much looking forward to reading your thoughts about it.

Keep well

Steve
Posted on: 17 February 2007 by Tam
Dear Basil,

The Tapiola turned up this morning (along with the Jansons disc). So far I have only listened to Tapiola, but it really is very fine indeed (possibly the finest I've yet heard). If the rest of the set lives up to a similar standard I may have to investigate the EMI disc as well.

regards, Tam
Posted on: 18 February 2007 by Basil
I'm glad you're pleased, I was a little concerned when you posted the links and I saw you'd ordered the 1964 recording, as I'm completely unfamiliar with it.

Looks like I may have to track down a copy!
Posted on: 19 February 2007 by Tam
I'll start by putting my cards on the table - I am no great fan of Karajan - in the past the few of his recordings I have owned haven't moved me much and I have often found them a little over-regimented and lacking in passion. I did not, therefore, intend to sample his Sibelius, despite the good reviews it has got. However, Basil's strong recommendation for his Tapiola, coupled with the fact I haven't really heard a reading of the piece that grabbed me, prompted me to do. And I'm very glad that I did.



The two disc set contains symphonies 4-7, along iwth Tapiola and The Swan of Tuonela (if one goes to his earlier EMI recordings symphonies 1 and 2 can be found, but I haven't noticed a recording of the 3rd - others may be able to put me right).

From the opening bars of the 4th, one of the hallmarks of this set is clear - the exceptional playing of the BPO. While this is not one of Sibelius's really sweeping scores, Karajan brings a good measure of it. As well as a wonderful contrast between light and dark moments. The transition to the second movement is judged to perfection. There is a very nice lightness of touch, even if other interpretations do dance a little more. I like the way he brings out an omnipresent sense of darkness in the background. Another excellent transition into the third movement, and what strikes most is how well he brings out the similarities to the first movement, giving the work a sense of structure which in lesser hands it can lack. (There is also some particularly fine wind and brass playing.) They stylistic differences of the 4th movement don't feel out of place at all (as they often can). Splitting hairs, I would prefer an ounce more passion here. But Karajan does bring off the ending wonderfully, in a way that is both satisfying and disconcerting. All in all, one of the finer readings of the work.

The 5th opens fairly slowly, once again with exquisite playing. But, as a general rule, I prefer this movement slightly brisker and the fire, while it is there, does feel slightly calculated. None of which detracts from a particularly fantastic final few bars. The beautiful andante that follows is much better suited to Karajan's approach. The finale is pretty fine too. Karajan brings a wonderful energy and the playing is exceptional (though different, I should note, to Bernstein's Vienna Phil who bring a level of texture which Karajan doesn't, however, that has it's own costs, discussed above). The whole thing builds to a pretty magnificent close.

As might be expected by now, the 6th has a beautifully measured opening, but there is darkness on hand. But, listening, I detect more than elsewhere in this set the over-regimentedness I dislike about Karajan, and as I felt with some moments in the 4th, the brisker passages don't dance as they might. None the less, this is a compelling account (assisted by the BPO's fine playing). As elsewhere, the transition into the second movement, which is very well played, is managed wonderfully and here, for the first time, the orchestra really seem to dance. The third movement again showcases his exquisite lightness of touch coupled with a real fire. There is a wonderful weight to the opening bars of the finale. The orchestra beautiful as ever (though never quite as evocative as the VPO under Bernstein). There is a potent mix of fire and beauty on display here which, all in all, is rather splendid.

It's probably getting a little repetitive to say so by now, but the opening bars of the 7th are very well played indeed, though rather slowly (the reading weighs in at just over 23 minutes which on the face of it is a little long, though not of Bernsteinian or Segerstam proportions - and it doesn't feel wayward in the same way either of those do). I mentioned Mahler 9 syndrome earlier (wherein this piece can, in the wrong hands sound like a disconnected series of miniatures), if anything Karajan brings the reverse and the seamlessness of his reading makes it very special indeed (which makes me think I ought to seek out his Mahler 9th). The playing of the brass (and in particular the all important trombones) deserve special praise. The relative sloth (and, in truth, that word is perhaps unkind, since I don't mean its negative connotations) doesn't prevent the orchestra from dancing when called for (though it could be more, particularly in the vivacissimo section - but to some extent I am probably splitting hairs). There is fire a plenty in the louder moments and he gets a really Bernsteinian chill from his . The slower moments have a really wonderful weight to them. It is true that in the quick passages, he does not quite bring the same sweep as Davis. There is a real quality to the orchestra's quiet playing (one of the things I think marks the distinction between good and great ensembles), there is a wonderful fierceness to the brass. The 'journey's end' (at least that's how it feels to me) motif in the final allegro is satisfying to near perfection (though perhaps a touch quicker than I would like it). The string playing in the closing adagio is superb, as are the trombones. Karajan perhaps goes a little slowly for my tastes, but he sustains it. The closing bars are more satisfying and vivid than any I have heard before (and it does slightly make me wish I had the score before me, as I wonder if he is drawing out the last note longer than he ought - not that I'm complaining mind).

As to the couplings, the Swan is very pleasant. And Tapiola, the reason for buying this set? I still don't entirely feel like I understand this work, but Karajan brings me closer than anyone else I've heard - in a cliche I feel like I begin to understand, and doubtless the more I listen to this fine reading, the more I will.

So, in summary, I think sampling some Karajan is a must for Sibelians and am indebted to Basil for the very fine performances of 4 and 7 (the stars, though 5 and 6 are very fine too), for best Tapiola I've heard to date and for turning me around somewhat on Karajan.

regards, Tam
Posted on: 20 February 2007 by Basil
Excellent! I'm pleased you enjoyed them.
Posted on: 20 February 2007 by graham55
Tam and Basil, those 1960s Sibelius recordings are rightly famous and amongst the best things that Karajan ever recorded. I don't think that the 1980s(?) re-makes on EMI were, so far as I remember, improvements.

Sadly, it was all too often the case with Karajan's recording career that each successive 're-make' took the listener ever further from the work in question and closer to the 'Karajan experience'.

It's a horrible thing to say but, if he'd gone down in an aeroplane crash in around 1968, his reputation today would be higher than it stands now: viz Guido Cantelli.

Regards

Graham

PS Tam, have you ever heard Karajan's 'Ring'? I do keep hearing good things about it, but it would be expensive to get just on a whim.
Posted on: 20 February 2007 by Tam
quote:
Originally posted by graham55:
PS Tam, have you ever heard Karajan's 'Ring'? I do keep hearing good things about it, but it would be expensive to get just on a whim.


Those were pretty well my thoughts exactly Graham. But I just headed over to Amazon, and they had it for £50 (which given I've seen it going for normally more like £150 seemed like a bargain), so I threw caution to the wind and will report back in due course.


regards, Tam
Posted on: 20 February 2007 by u5227470736789439
In my view the finest recording of Tapiola is the one done by Prof. Robert Kajanus in 1930 or 1932 when Sibelius was asked to select the best leader of his music for a Finish State sponsered recordings of his music at the EMI studios with the LSO.

It is dark, brooding, monumental and completely terrifying as music. It used to be available on Finish EMI, Finlandia [Finish], and Koch. The two Finish issues come in a wonderful transfer [done in London in the '70s by AC Grifith for the English branch] and the Koch is from Shellac, and is not so fine. The performance still wins! Probably the Koch is still out, and possibly the Finlandia. [I think Naxos may have it in the pipe line as well, but I don't know about the couplings on these].

In each issue you also get Symphonies One, Two, Three and Five. Only Five has a few fairly serious deficiencies in the playing. The Third is my favourite recording of any Sibelius Symphony, and will provide a surprise, which I will not spoil for listeners not aquainted with Sibelius' own ideas of how the music ought to go. Needless to say the tradition has indeed moved away from Sibelius' ideal with such conductors as Karajan, but Barbirolli is still ideally central to the original concept.

But in terms of Tapiola, this is just as surpriing and special. I used to have the Karajan DG recordings on LP. I have not sought them out on CD. It is a question of taste, and once you find the old Kajanus set you will wonder how it could go any other way. It is the closest to a composer performance we shall have, and very special.

Kindest regards from Fredrik
Posted on: 21 February 2007 by Basil
What is the sound like on those 1930's recordings? I feel Tapiola in particular needs a good quality recording with a silent background. Something I've never heard from a 30's recording.
Posted on: 21 February 2007 by u5227470736789439
The EMI based transfers are surprisingly fine, and among the quietest in terms of surface noise I have ecountered, except the Second Symphony which is not quite so quiet.

I fact I have never noriced the recording in Tapiola, so powerful is the performance!


ATB from Fredrik
Posted on: 21 February 2007 by Basil
Dear Fredrik,

A quick search has turned this up,

CATALOGUE NR: 27801
RECORD LABEL: Divine Art Historic
FORMAT: CD
PRICE: £ 11.75 including VAT, or £ 10.00 excluding VAT
RELEASE DATE: 11-Apr-2005

COMPOSER: Jean Sibelius
TRACKS: Symphony No.5 in E flat op.82. Tapiola op.112. Symphony No.6 in D minor op.104.
ORCHESTRA: London Symphony Orchestra and Finnish National Orchestra
CONDUCTOR: Robert Kajanus and Georg Schneevoigt

Based on your reputation, and having confirmed that it is Kajanus conducting Tapiola I've gone ahead and ordered it.

You'd better hope I like it! Winker
Posted on: 22 February 2007 by u5227470736789439
I hope you do. Sibelius approved, but I did not find that out till after I did more research after finding it for myself! The performance of ythe Fifth under Kajanus is problematic. It shows serious signs of strain in the orchestra in terms of accurate ensemble, not found elsewhere in his recordings. I would guess that it was under-rehearsed, which is important in what was new music for the band.


ATB from Fredrik

PS: Please do report on the perfprmance of the Sixth as well. I have never come across Schneevoigt at all, but had only heard of him.
Posted on: 22 February 2007 by u5227470736789439
Kajanus post script: [see bottom of previous page].

Of his few recordings the only one that falls below the best standards is unfortunately the Fifth Symphony. The Third still has not been eclipsed, while the First and Second have a really grand and by now unusual way with the music, which approach still has validity.

Quite possibly the Tapiola performance is his greatest recording, though his efforts in the Incidental Music for Belshazah's Feast has a unique concentration and atmosphere to match the Taiola...

These make a splendid appendix to any lover of Sibelius' music, to put alongside others from Barbirolli, Beecham, and Anthony Collins, who also worked with the composer and have unique insights. Of course there are many other great renderings, and only a few bad ones, at least on records. Kajanus gave an astonishing number of Sibelius premiers, in direct consultation with the composer, who was a lifelong friend. Prof Robert Kajanus died in 1932 or '33, in his seventies.

Kindest regards from Fredrik
Posted on: 23 February 2007 by u5227470736789439
Post post script on Robert Kajanus:

Sibelius was by no means a poor conductor, but there is only one recording of his music under his own baton.

The story of the recording of the Andante festivo, and the subsequent false attribution of another recording as being directed by the composer.

The mp3 excerpt linked to within the article is about four minutes of the orchestra warming up, which is more entertaining than you might think, followed by Sibelius coming to the front and being applauded. Then the rehearsal starts...

I now want to get the original "Sibelius" recording for myself!

Clearly those of us who knew the old 78 set, broadcast for example by the BBC in 1985 ascribing it to Sibelius, will be both sadened that that beautiful performance was not led by Sibelius, but also glad that a real recording of him does actually exist!

Kajanus on the other hand was Sibelius' closest music collaborator till Kajanus' death. Sibelius himself recomended Kajanus for the Finish Governement Sponsored project. Below is a link about the project though the collaboration between the composer and conductor is more significant than the article suggests.

Kajanus and Sibelius.

Kindest regards from Fredrik
Posted on: 27 February 2007 by Basil
The Kajanus Sibelius Symphony No.5 & Tapiola and the Schnéevoigt symphony No.6 arrived this morning. It's judgement day, Fredrik! Winker

Also, more Karajan Sibelius. The EMI recordings of Tapiola, En Saga, Finlandia, The Swan of Tuonela, Karelia suite and Valse triste. I'd assumed the CD was the same as the LP but the Karelia suite and Valse triste are not on the LP release and I've not heard Karajan and the BPO playing the Karelia suite before. I have a feeling it's going to suit Karajan and the BPO perfectly and be very good indeed.
Posted on: 27 February 2007 by u5227470736789439
Dear Basil,

Please do post your reaction to the Sibelius on your new discs! I shall try to look in later [staying at Frank F's is Spain] to see what you think!

In Holiday Mood, Fredrik
Posted on: 27 February 2007 by Basil
Dear Fredrik,

quote:
[staying at Frank F's is Spain]


You lucky, lucky bastard! ;-)

All I've had time to listen to so far is the Karelia suite on the Karajan disc, and I have to say it's something of a disappointment, I was expecting more, but it's flat, there's no energy, no snap, no crackle, no pop!

The version I'm comparing it with is by Okko Kamu with the Helsinki Radio symphony orchestra.

I was expecting great things from Karajan; his performance of "Finlandia" on the same disc is superb. I did note that the Karelia is a later, digital recording from 86, only a few years before he died, which may be why it's so poor.

The disc is still well worth a listen though, Tapiola is stunning, as is The Swan of Tuonela and as mentioned above, Finlandia is one of the very best I've heard.
Posted on: 27 February 2007 by Tam
Well, just been listening to an edition of Radio 3's 'Discovering Music' concerning Tapiola (an illustrated discussion of the piece given by Stephen Johnson with help from the BBC Phil under Martyn Brabbins, a conductor who impressed me again - last time it was with a fine reading of Elgar's The Kingdom). I must thank Basil for providing the CD.

I didn't get on all that well with Mr Johnson and his discovering music on the second symphony (but then I wasn't altogether in sympathy with his conducting partner and I knew that work much better). This is another matter and I now feel much better acquainted with the piece (those who don't would do well to speak to Basil nicely) - I think I'll have another listen in a couple of days as I don't think I will have taken everything he had to say in.

And a rather fine reading of Tapiola to cap it (if not in Karajan's league).


regards, Tam

p.s. Up later, Tchaik 5 (as Life on Mars appears to have been postponed for the football [livid emoticon]).
Posted on: 27 February 2007 by u5227470736789439
Basil! The Kajanus, not the Karajan! You know that what I think of Karajan is not postable on the Forum! I think you are too kind about his performance of the Karelia, by the way!

You will have to wait till Thursday now as I am off to Sevilla tomorrow! I just really want to see if you find the old Kajanus reading of Tapiola convincing!

Kindest regards from Fredrik. [Off to bed - very early start - type Smiley]!
Posted on: 27 February 2007 by Basil
Hi Tam,

I'm glad you found the program interesting, I am a little surprised you enjoyed the final performance, I was a little disappointed with it after enjoying the excerpts during Stephen Johnson's workshop on the great Finnish composer's final orchestral work.

I'd be happy to loan you the EMI CD if I could borrow the 1964 DG recording of yours? PM me at the fish tank if you're up for this musical exchange.

Dear Fredrik,

Sorry about that, but I just had to hear the Karajan first. I'll give the Kajanus a serious listen, both Tapiola and the 5th symphony as well as the Schnéevoigt symphony No.6 and report back.

Yours apologetically,

Basil
Posted on: 01 March 2007 by u5227470736789439
Dear Basil,

Back from Sevilla now! How's it going? Fredrik
Posted on: 02 March 2007 by Basil
Dear Fredrik,

I've not had time to listen properly to the Kajanus, I've played his Tapiola and my initial feeling is that he takes it just a little to fast. His tempi just doesn't fit the work.
The sound however, is quite remarkable, a little thin and mono but very good for a 30's recording.
Posted on: 02 March 2007 by u5227470736789439
Dear Basil,

I must say that I never noted the tempo one way or the other, as it seemed so natural to me...

I will be back in UK tomorrow and will put the old set [Finlandia/ EMI transfer from the Master parts] on and see if I can see anything that sticks out. What struck me was the sweep of the conception, and the depth of commitment in the performance!

So tomorrow evening or Sunday [Polish Party tomorrow evening!] I will try to get back.

In Holiday mood, ATB from Fredrik!