DACs to DS - a users perspective.

Posted by: james n on 04 October 2010

Folks,

Having followed the distributed Audio threads with interest, particularly with regard to Naims new products in this area, my own personal quest for a high quality computer based / streaming solution has now come to a conclusion and with a much different end point than i ever thought it would.

This post is in no way meant to knock Naim - I still continue to use Naim products after 22 years and just wanted to add my own experiences of computer audio to the vast amount of accumulated knowledge already found in this section of the forum.

I've been a digital convert for the last 14 years after a Naim CD3.5 ousted my LP12. The idea of having my whole music collection so easily accessible has really appealed to me but early systems were either too expensive or not of good enough quality to warrant investigation. My first attempt at streaming consisted of an Airport Express into the digital input of my n-Vi (acting as a DAC) controlled via a bluetooth enabled mobile phone. Not the slickest of systems but not bad sounding either...

Move on a couple of years and i've gone the Mac 'n' Dac route with a headless Mac Mini and various DACs - the Lavry DA10 via Toslink and then to a Weiss DAC2 and finally DAC202. The Weiss DACs really come into their own with the Firewire connection. I'd come from the school of thinking that if the output is bit perfect then it can't be improved upon - unfortunately it can.

I was an early adopter of Amarra and later Pure Music. Both players improve on standard iTunes playback whilst remaining bit perfect (the Weiss DACs can do bit transparency checking so the path from Hard disk to DAC can be checked out). Further small improvements came from maxing out the memory in the Mini and replacing the internal hard drive with a 64GB SSD drive for just the OS and the music player. All the music is stored on external NAS so internal storage size wasn't an issue. Controlled via an iPod touch, this made a very good digital front end. Sound quality was superb but with a few operational niggles...

I went through a number of versions of Amarra - all sounded different. A friend (thanks Joe) put me onto Pure Vinyl which i found i prefered to Amarra. Pure Music was released which was just Pure Vinyl, with all the Vinyl bits taken out, effectively just a stripped down music player. The introduction of memory play was the key in getting this sounding so good. Individual tracks or a complete album could be loaded into memory rather than access the disk / network. Minimising what the computer is doing when playing music really has a beneficial effect on the final sound which is why i'd recommend dedicating a computer to this task (the Mini is ideal as it can run headless and is quiet - silent with the SSD). Whilst the sound produced by this setup was excellent, minor bugs made it a less than seamless experience. Using Apples remote app to control iTunes (both players integrate with iTunes as the Music database / control and just take over the audio engine), Pure Music would sometime lose sync with the iPod necessitating a restart of the software, there was a gap when loading music into memory and i always suffered a slow memory leak whereby the player would run out of virtual memory and crash. Whilst these are very minor irritations, they would always happen when friends were using the system and (for me) spoilt my enjoyment of sitting down for a couple of hours of listening to music.

So why the move to the Linn ? - The Mac / Weiss front end has been superb, no questions about that but i wanted to simplify things, get the computer out of the rack and make the operation slick and family proof.

Whilst the obvious solution would be an HDX / NDX the next step had to meet the following criteria -

Full iTunes integration. We have a number of iPods and have mostly Mac's in the house and i like using iTunes as a way of managing my music.

It must integrate with my library of AIFF files (XLD ripped), stored on a NAS. I don't want to be converting files to WAV / FLAC or re-ripping (again !) etc.

A one box player solution would be prefered. No additional boxes required in the rack.

So why not Naim ?

I like the HDX - it's a good product but after reading comments from other users, the small amount of residual noise from the internal drives put me off. The SSD solution, whilst ideal was said by a couple of the Trade members to be not so good as using the internal disks when reading from an external NAS - again not ideal.

The NDX ? - well that's an unknown quantity as of yet. i'm sure it will be good but as an early adopter of the n-Vi and all its problems i'd want an NDX that had all its bugs ironed out before i went that route. That would be too long given its present release date.

So onto the DS. I'd been put off Linn, mostly by comments on this forum over Linns electronics pedigree and the rather different presentation to Naim and so had not really considered the Linn route. The control interface on the Linn had put me off too but a couple of hours spent browsing the Linn forum showed promise with some rather nice control apps for the iPods. Linn introduced a major firmware update late last year (Cara) which added new features and better sound quality to the DS units (different dither and upsampling algorithms) and introduced an improved SMPS supply, the Dynamik, which upped the game again.time to borrow an Akurate DS from my dealer.

Out of the box the Linn is extremely lightweight after the Naim boxes - no heavy toroid to add to the weight. It's a very neat unit, well engineered and very well put together (which it should be for close to £4k). It also is silent and runs cool. I already have a wired Ethernet connection between my lounge and study so the Akurate was placed in the rack, power cable connected, Hi line plugged in to the RCA outputs and the Ethernet cable plugged in - that's all that's required on the hardware side.

In my study, i have the NAS and a 10 port Ethernet switch for the wired Ethernet connections. One of the ports runs to a wireless router and onto the cable modem for Internet and wireless connectivity. I plugged my Mac Mini in to one of the free ports on the switch and then VNC'd in from one of my other Macs to install a UPnP server on the Mini. I'd originally tried Twonky but this didn't work too well with my exisiting iTunes managed library so used Chorus DS, a free UPnP server for the DS players. Installation was painless, i pointed the server to my iTunes library on the NAS and started it running. 5 minutes later and its all done.

Next was setup of the DS. Using an application called Konfig, the network is scanned for UPnP devices - in a couple of seconds it finds my UPnP server and the Akurate DS in the lounge - you can set various settings on the DS from here from display brightness, to player name, to control of other Linn products (such as preamp volume) via the RS232 interface on the Akurate. A couple of minutes sorting the settings and all is done.

As it was just a loan of the DS, i didn't bother with any iPod software, i just used the Kinsky desktop application on my laptop to select music - its a pretty nice interface and does the job quite well. Again, it's a download from the Linn website and its quickly up and running. It can see the UPnP server, it can see the DS and so it's time to play some music.

It's very good and (IMHO) really gets to the heart of the music and majors on pulling out the rythmic structures and melodies. Its a different presentation to the DAC202, which majors on detail whilst still being very musical. The Akurate isn't so revealing but on a pure musical level it's an extremely enjoyable player and throughout the loan i found myself listening to tracks i hadn't heard for a long time and hearing a whole new perspective on some of them. Overall i found it a very engaging music maker and certainly in my system i prefered it to the Weiss which whilst extremely good, would sometimes, due i think to its very revealing nature, leave me concentrating more on the mechanics of the track playing rather than the musical content. Again all IMHO.

So some hard decisions were made, and an order placed for a black Akurate DS. The Weiss has gone to its new owner and Amarra was sold on to a nice chap in Hong Kong and he's very pleased with it.

So 3 weeks down the line and the box fresh Akurate has run in nicely and is sounding as good as the well used demo unit. An iPad has arrived and runs an app called Chorus DS HD which is a fantastic way to browse and control my music collection. Operation has been absolutely seamless. No crashes, no restarts and perfect Itunes integration.

I'll keep an eye on Naims progress in this area and will be interested in hearing the NDX and future products. - i think its a very exciting time for music what with new high quality ways of accessing it and the increasing availability of hi-res recordings. For now though. the Linn does all that i want and i'd recommend the DS products as worth a listen against the Naim alternatives.

James
Posted on: 05 October 2010 by pcstockton
quote:
I have tested HDX vs KDS in all-Naim system and post my findings here on the forum: and KDS was way better in all departments.


Was the KDS a better UPNP server? It can stream to other UPNP clients throughout the house?

Was the KDS a better ripper?

Does the KDS have a better digital output?

Does the KDS have a better option for control outside of a desktop client and iPhone app?

Lastly, how does the internal storage option work for the KDS (in the case you dont want or need a NAS).

I bring this up because they are completely different units with wildly varied functions.

I am not being completely pejorative though. Seriously, let say Naim releases the DAC555. It is a full reference case, quiet room etc... it outperforms any DAC to date and is better than any DS. Wouldn't it be nice to simply plug in the streamer into the new DAC?

I guess in that case you would sell the DS and buy a Majick (it has digital output right?)

You say the KDS was "way better on all fronts" but you really only mean on one front, i.e. sound quality/voicing (Which is just about all that matters if it offers all of the functionality you need).

I am just saying that when you state the DS was "way better on all fronts", you make it sound as if the DS can do everything the HDX can. Which it doesn't even come close to doing.

-Patrick
Posted on: 05 October 2010 by gone
quote:
Originally posted by Asenna04:
quote:
Originally posted by ROTF:

Think this does what you want - simply add nDAC/555PS


ROTF, what is this? It look amazing. Is the slot at the bottom for CDs?

ASenna04


I guess it's a Sooloos, judging by the speakers. Does the ripper software use a more comprehensive database of album info than e.g. AMG/FreeDB/etc? I'm not familiar with this gizmo, but maybe my wishes are nearer than I thought on that front, in which case, maybe the other databases will follow suit shortly
Posted on: 05 October 2010 by gone
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:
I am not being completely pejorative though. -


Sounds like it to me Winker

I'm not going to be sucked into whether KDS is 'way better' than anything else. Of course it's different to an HDX in terms of internal functionality, but the most important functionality for me is whether it plays music or not. I don't really care how it gets there, other than allowing me the possibilities of HD-stored music and network integration.
Any system is a matter of taste, and at the moment, I'm enjoying the KDS taste a lot.
I disagree on the comments about transients and bass weight, if I understand the descriptors - there are certainly no problems of that kind in the bass or transient department, so maybe it depends on system integration and choice of speakers/amplifiers - the choice is infinite of course.

By the way, I'm prepared to piss away another 20 bucks on betting there won't be a top-end standalone DAC from Naim. Why accept the compromises of an external digital interface? But a top end digital-something with internal reference DAC has to be on the horizon.

Cheers
John << reaching for the LP12, and putting on side 3 of Focus3 >>
Posted on: 05 October 2010 by Graham Russell
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:
quote:
I have tested HDX vs KDS in all-Naim system and post my findings here on the forum: and KDS was way better in all departments.


Was the KDS a better UPNP server? It can stream to other UPNP clients throughout the house?

Was the KDS a better ripper?

Does the KDS have a better digital output?

Does the KDS have a better option for control outside of a desktop client and iPhone app?

Lastly, how does the internal storage option work for the KDS (in the case you dont want or need a NAS).

I bring this up because they are completely different units with wildly varied functions.

I am not being completely pejorative though. Seriously, let say Naim releases the DAC555. It is a full reference case, quiet room etc... it outperforms any DAC to date and is better than any DS. Wouldn't it be nice to simply plug in the streamer into the new DAC?

I guess in that case you would sell the DS and buy a Majick (it has digital output right?)

You say the KDS was "way better on all fronts" but you really only mean on one front, i.e. sound quality/voicing (Which is just about all that matters if it offers all of the functionality you need).

I am just saying that when you state the DS was "way better on all fronts", you make it sound as if the DS can do everything the HDX can. Which it doesn't even come close to doing.

-Patrick


The KDS is not trying to deliver the same solution as an HDX. LINN are replying on the user handling the ripping and storage issues themselves. Naim have invested heavily in a single box solution with expandability through external DACs and PSUs.

You are still talking about futures. The mythical "555" DAC may never come. Look at the pain Naim have been going through releasing their latest range of digital products.

We are all presenting views that we have heard. You are continually trying to defend Naim's position and throwing up irrelivant questions/arguments. I still have a CD555 with 2 x 555PS. In most poeople's views still the best digital front-end Naim produce. To my ears the KDS produces music to the same level. It also has the benefit of being able to handle high-res music formats. Clearly the CD555 can't. I, like some others here have no need for a central digital hub and really want to only maximise the single digital source. Of course technology moves on, and there will undoubtably better sources down the road. However, right now, for me and my wallet, the KDS is what I want.

I am running a 552/500 system so I don't think there's any doubt over my "allegance" to Naim products. I am using my right as a free thinking customer to question whether I want Naim digital sources and looking at the competition. No one can question my right or decision to do this, or the outcome to choose something other than Naim.

Graham
Posted on: 05 October 2010 by Geoff P
quote:
I guess it's a Sooloos, judging by the speakers. Does the ripper software use a more comprehensive database of album info than e.g. AMG/FreeDB/etc? I'm not familiar with this gizmo, but maybe my wishes are nearer than I thought on that front, in which case, maybe the other databases will follow suit shortly
As far as I can figure out the way the extended information is provided is via a service called "Rapsody" which is currently only available in the US..at least that's all Meridian says about it. As to exactly how comprehensive it actually is that's not clear.

regards
Geoff
Posted on: 05 October 2010 by Geoff P
Patrick

Please stop assuming that everybody else is nuts because they don't want what you seem to obsess about.
We are not stupid we chose as intelligent people and are fully aware of what are DS boxes can and cannot do both technically and musically. It should be obvious to you by now that based on quite a selection of recent threads there are quite a few folk who have different views from yourself ( see AllenB's recent interesting thread for example ) and you are flogging a dead horse to continue this whole 'but does it do this.. and ..it doesn't do that' argument.

regards
geoff
Posted on: 05 October 2010 by Guido Fawkes
quote:
Originally posted by Asenna04:
quote:
Originally posted by ROTF:



Think this does what you want - simply add nDAC/555PS


ROTF, what is this? It look amazing. Is the slot at the bottom for CDs?

ASenna04
It's a Meridian Sooloos and it uses lots of databases to get info about the ripped disk (which it rips using the usual high quality techniques) - you can see who played guitar on a particular track, click the guitarist and if he is on other tracks you have, it'll list them ready to play.

It stores music as FLAC. Has a 17-inch touchscreen and high-resolution S/PDIF using a top notch sound card from RME, 500GB hard-drive for 1000 CD albums losslessly. It can also be used a CD transport and stream internet radio.

To me it plus nDAC/555PS would be a great system and preferable to the Linn DSs or my Mac/hiFace, but at £4750, it is a bit pricey. Perhaps I'll wait for Naim to bring out its own version with twice the capacity at half the price Smile
Posted on: 05 October 2010 by pcstockton
quote:
I still have a CD555 with 2 x 555PS.

I thought you said the KDS replaced 4 boxes?
Posted on: 05 October 2010 by pcstockton
quote:
you are flogging a dead horse to continue this whole 'but does it do this.. and ..it doesn't do that' argument.


I dont see you as a dead horse at all.

Just playing around with the language and whatnot, and providing some clarification etc... Dont take me so seriously. I neither think nor said anyone is "nuts" or "stupid".

If you are into a networked DAC, great! If others are into UPNP servers/clients, great! And even more are into a PC/Mac and DAC, great!
They all present great options at any price point.

If my local Linn dealer wasn't a snobby asshole I would have at least demoed the Majik for what that is worth..... not much I guess...


Stockton out..... (Californication Season 3 anyone??!?!?)
Posted on: 05 October 2010 by pcstockton
quote:
I am using my right as a free thinking customer to question whether I want Naim digital sources and looking at the competition. No one can question my right or decision to do this, or the outcome to choose something other than Naim.


Good lord! We are getting serious!

I dont recall calling you out in any fashion....

I do recall saying "[the KDS is better] on one front, i.e. sound quality/voicing (Which is just about all that matters if it offers all of the functionality you need)"
Posted on: 05 October 2010 by Alamanka
quote:
No one can question my right or decision to do this, or the outcome to choose something other than Naim.


forum
noun \ˈfȯr-əm\
plural forums also fo·ra\-ə\

Definition of FORUM
1
a : the marketplace or public place of an ancient Roman city forming the center of judicial and public business
b : a public meeting place for open discussion
c : a medium (as a newspaper or online service) of open discussion or expression of ideas

2 : a judicial body or assembly : court

3
a : a public meeting or lecture involving audience discussion
b : a program (as on radio or television) involving discussion of a problem usually by several authorities

Examples of FORUM

1. Forums were held to determine how to handle the situation.
2. The town has scheduled a public forum to discuss the proposal.
3. The club provides a forum for people who share an interest in local history.

Origin of FORUM
Latin; akin to Latin foris outside, fores door — more at door
First Known Use: 15th century
Posted on: 06 October 2010 by David Dever
quote:
Originally posted by Geoff P:
quote:
I guess it's a Sooloos, judging by the speakers. Does the ripper software use a more comprehensive database of album info than e.g. AMG/FreeDB/etc? I'm not familiar with this gizmo, but maybe my wishes are nearer than I thought on that front, in which case, maybe the other databases will follow suit shortly
As far as I can figure out the way the extended information is provided is via a service called "Rapsody" which is currently only available in the US..at least that's all Meridian says about it. As to exactly how comprehensive it actually is that's not clear.

regards
Geoff

The Meridian Sooloos units use the same metadata providers (AMG Lasso / freeDB) as do the Naim Servers. There are others who use these services as well.

The Rhapsody subscription streaming service is limited to the US, and itself also uses AMG for metadata.
Posted on: 06 October 2010 by David Dever
quote:
BTW about year ago I have tested HDX vs KDS in all-Naim system and post my findings here on the forum: and KDS was way better in all departments.

These are two wholly-different types of products–one is a UPnP server / storage aggregator / ripper / local player where the other is a network player. The appropriate comparison would now be with the NDX (which also adds DAC / iPod dock / built-in internet radio / USB file playback), perhaps still not an apples-to-apples comparison.

It is possible (and I have seen this done) to use both HDX (as UPnP server) and Klimax DS (as network player) on the same network, with the HDX providing rips, metadata, etc. The same application could include an NDX in place of the Klimax DS.
Posted on: 06 October 2010 by Geoff P
quote:
The Meridian Sooloos units use the same metadata providers (AMG Lasso / freeDB) as do the Naim Servers. There are others who use these services as well.

The Rhapsody subscription streaming service is limited to the US, and itself also uses AMG for metadata.
David The OP of the query , JOHN( Nero) was asking for:

quote:
Yes Geoff, but what I really had in mind was lyrics, production info, musicians, liner notes, inside artwork etc. Wouldn't it be nice if your chosen ripping software could pick all that up? Life's too short to do it yourself, even if the metadata fields are available.

With the real estate of the iPad display, it would be almost like holding an LP again.


As far as I am aware this in depth info is currently not available from any of the databases you mention. If I am wrong I will be delighted to hear as like John I would love to have this.

regards
Geoff
Posted on: 06 October 2010 by David Dever
This was discussed before - in order to set a standard, you need to set limitations as regards format (as we all know, PDFs can get pretty sizable depending on artwork) and presentation.

With a standard, then, you can establish which features are deprecated based on the control point you are using (and its capabilities).

AMG Lasso has the best chance of this as its file structure is XML based, and supports album credits such as musicians, production and engineering staff (in fact, the All Media Guide is actually utilized by NARAS to establish Grammy voting qualification).

Song lyrics and inside cover art are another story - again, another opportunity to establish a standard, provided that the majority of content consumers indicate their desire for said features.

Historically, the failure of multimedia interactive Compact Discs has probably killed any notion of a more elaborate static presentation experience for music delivery. Even Apple couldn't get much headway with iTunes Albums, itself essentially a containerized format for presentation on the iTunes (computer) desktop.
Posted on: 06 October 2010 by AMA
quote:
These are two wholly-different types of products–one is a UPnP server / storage aggregator / ripper / local player where the other is a network player.

David, I agree with you -- these are two products with different functionality. Afterall this is an audiophile forum -- not "feature-phile" forum. Most of the people here will put SQ at the top of priorities. Both HDX and KDS are designed to make music from digital data and KDS does the job better (at a cost).

I'm a bit confused that some forum members did not notice the difference between KDS and nDAC in bass performance which I observed several times (and that was the only downside of KDS to me). I have to understand why Confused
It seems not logical that this particular SQ element (bass weight) is system dependent.

How many of you guys run KDS against NDAC/XPS (or 555PS) in a direct A/B test (same day, same system, same track)?
Posted on: 06 October 2010 by gone
quote:
Originally posted by AMA:
How many of you guys run KDS against NDAC/XPS (or 555PS) in a direct A/B test (same day, same system, same track)?


The reason I went down the KDS route is that, while collecting my new DAC from my dealer, I had the opportunity to make such a comparison, with a small selection of music I had on a USB stick (Kate Bush, Camel 20bit, Porcupine Tree, Plant/Krauss 24bit, etc, some downloaded, some ripped with dBPoweramp, some ripped with HDX). No problem on the bass punch side of things.
I'm afraid I left rather surprised, and the rest is history.
YMMV
Cheers
John

PS : I had previously heard a KDS without the DynamiK and not really felt a need to jump ship, good though it was.
Posted on: 06 October 2010 by pcstockton
quote:
Afterall this is an audiophile forum -- not "feature-phile" forum.


Whatever. Most enjoying their DS players, and ALL bitching about the offerings from Naim are doing so because of function. Namely, an ethernet network connected DAC. One box solution seems to be paramount.

I think it goes without saying that whether HDX, computer/DAC, Serve/NDX, ADS, KDS all offer good sound quality at their price points. We can take that for granted. Any leanings towards one sound quality or another will be subtle and mostly budget related. Meaning, most will buy the best they can afford.

So I DO think it is all about features. Many have already said (and some are begging for), a networked Naim DAC.

Most have intimated that this was the main reason for getting a DS player.

Now whether or not extra functionality has any meaning to a particular person is another matter. And I agree that many only have one source and need nothing else.

I dont know why some get so ruffled when people point out that the "A vs. B" aren't actually the best comparisons when the argument is SOLELY boiled down to box count.

Bottom Line:

A higher box count (Naim) offers more functionality, an optional upgrade path.

A lower box count (DS) offers less function but a more streamlined approach. Swap one box in for another for upgrades.

Either way it is going to sound GREAT right?

I would love to read these newer discussions without reference to box count as it seems fairly irrelevant given most systems in here.

Two more boxes for a Serve>DAC>555ps than a KDS frontend really isnt the end of the world. At the end of the day it will all come down to functionality and SQ.

-Patrick
Posted on: 06 October 2010 by Geoff P
Patrick

Some fair comments well put. Personally I DON't think it is all about features... SQ is the main determinant IMO.

Certainly features are an element but not an overiding one provided the basic requirement of the purchaser are offered. If for example the 552 which is felt by a lot of folk on these forums to be a superb pre-amp did not have as many inputs and no RCA sockets I don't think it would stop folk from extolling its performance and buying it because of it's outstanding SQ.

Minimalism is often actually highlighted as an audio advantage.

regards
Geoff
Posted on: 06 October 2010 by gone
Fair analysis Patrick, no beef there.
Sure, sound quality is the top of the list, and if I had too many features in a given box, I wouldn't care, but it's certainly a bonus in my house to slim down the box count. But that wasn't the reason to change.
Posted on: 06 October 2010 by pcstockton
quote:
If for example the 552 which is felt by a lot of folk on these forums to be a superb pre-amp did not have as many inputs and no RCA sockets I don't think it would stop folk from extolling its performance and buying it because of it's outstanding SQ.


Right... But at the same time, if you have a CDP, DAC, and TT but the 552 only had one input, that would be a fairly important detail/function.

I dont personally use more than one digital source (so technically a DS would be fine for me), but if I had the CDX2 I would certainly use it to spin discs....

Obviously I have made the choice to be able to run more than one signal through my DAC, and more importantly want to run my own software player into it. I am still not even sure that I would get along with an HDX or Serve UI.

Only a home demo of the Serve at some point will bear that out. Then I can decide if the SQ improvement, if it exists, outweighs the substandard UI (in my opinion), while at the cost of $3300.

-Patrick
Posted on: 06 October 2010 by pcstockton
quote:
How many of you guys run KDS against NDAC/XPS (or 555PS) in a direct A/B test



Up against the KDS, I think an HDX>DAC/555ps would be a bit more fair a comparison. Of course excluding box count as a major deciding factor.

Then maybe a Serve>DAC/555ps would be a good combination to try against a KDS as well. This of course assumes there is a large delta between HDX and Serve.

For the ADS, maybe a Serve>DAC/XPS might be a worthy foe. Maybe a bare NDX is a good comparison. Lastly, a Mac>nDac (no PSU), could be looked at against the Majik.


Nero, when you did your demo of the Naim DAC, what was serving up the files? Just curious.


Thanks,
Patrick
Posted on: 06 October 2010 by Geoff P
quote:
Right... But at the same time, if you have a CDP, DAC, and TT but the 552 only had one input, that would be a fairly important detail/function.

Patrick Indeed so..which is why I said "provided the basic requirement of the purchaser are offered" Cool
Posted on: 06 October 2010 by AMA
quote:
Nero, when you did your demo of the Naim DAC, what was serving up the files? Just curious.

Patrick, he mentioned in his post that he was carrying USB stick...
Posted on: 06 October 2010 by gone
I took the Usb stick to the demo so I had some tracks I knew but we copied those onto the RipNAS, which then served them via Twonky to the KDS. The controller was Songbook on an iPod Touch.
The HDX picked up the same tracks. The pre was a 552 through 300 to Kudos C20
The only thing I am not 100% sure of is the PS for the DAC - it should have been a 555PS as that is what I had at home, but it's possible it was an XPS2.
No matter. I heard a lot of cues which made me want to investigate further, that's all I'm saying.
Remember that I ran an HDX/555PS/DAC for a while before jumping to KDS and I don't regret it. But I can also understand why someone could think the opposite - I look for certain things in a system, you might look for others