How Many CD's do you own?

quote:

Originally posted by MangoMonkey:
I do have another question though. Maybe George can help me in a way that's morally non-reprehensible.

I just don't want that many CDs at home. I still like to buy CDs because you still can't buy stuff 'lossless' files for a vast majority of music.

Now that I've ripped the CD, how do I get rid of it without destroying it? I hate to see the CD go to waste?

I can't really donate the CD or give away the CD either, can I? That'll rob the industry of their chance to make a profit again...

I'm really not being sarcastic. Honest question.

I think it would be hard to argue against donating the CDs to charity shops after ripping them, even if it is not legal, it would certainly be a moral action.

I for one both envy and pity musiclovers who own 1000+ CD's.
Envy for having some much choice and pity for having so much to choose from

With 300+ albums I can not always decide what it's going to be, let alone have the time to listen to all albums in the way most of them deserve to be listened to.

For that matter it is nice to have something like Genius...

And ofcourse you keep discovering, which is nice.

PS. I do hope to hit the 1000+ mark soon!

quote:

Originally posted by Lontano:
Not sure what it is that keeps you from having more than 100, but why don't you get rid of the plastic casing and store them in wallets that take up far less real estate.

I really don't know how many I have. 100 was just a made up number (as was the fact that I rip it to flac. More often than not, I have it ripped somewhere and the hd crashes and i lose it. I wish I were more organized. that's the monkey part in my name). What's true is that I periodically go through my collection and reduce it.

quote:

Originally posted by JamieL_v2:

quote:

Originally posted by MangoMonkey:
I do have another question though. Maybe George can help me in a way that's morally non-reprehensible.

I just don't want that many CDs at home. I still like to buy CDs because you still can't buy stuff 'lossless' files for a vast majority of music.

Now that I've ripped the CD, how do I get rid of it without destroying it? I hate to see the CD go to waste?

I can't really donate the CD or give away the CD either, can I? That'll rob the industry of their chance to make a profit again...

I'm really not being sarcastic. Honest question.

I think it would be hard to argue against donating the CDs to charity shops after ripping them, even if it is not legal, it would certainly be a moral action.

When I sell my cds to the second hard store, I consider it charity too. I mean, I'm getting something like 10 dollars for 25 CDs, and he's selling those CDs for maybe a couple of dollars each. That's almost charity, isn't it?

quote:

Originally posted by HighFid3lity:
I for one both envy and pity musiclovers who own 1000+ CD's.

Sometimes I feel like a librarian I am in the music storage room having a bit of a clearout as I am going to slim a few ilbs. Anyway want a Celine Dion CD?

I own a Vinyl copy of Tracy Chapman's debut EP, but have no recordplayer anymore. I did find out I have to buy the CD for the 3rd time, because I handled the first 2 poorly and now they are damaged and I'm unable to rip it 100%.
I would say that in this particular case I FEEL entitled to download a WAV or FLAC version knowing I paid for 3 copies on two types of media.

But I could be mistaken (and the 3rd copy was on the orderlist already)

Here is my story.

I was watching Britain's Got Talent earlier this year when a young teenager sang "Angel" beautifully. I recognized the song but not the artist (Sarah McLauchlan I later discovered).

So, a copy of Surfacing the album Angel was taken from was put in my Amazon wish list where it stayed untouched for several months despite being less than £5 to buy new.

A couple of weeks ago by chance I bought a s/h copy of Surfacing for £2 in my local s/h cd store.

I have no idea whether I have unintentionally committed a crime in this act. Even if my own act is not criminal, my motivations may have been tacitly encouraging others to commit a crime.

Since that initial £2 purchase I have bought 4 further full price Sarah McLauchlan albums from HMV in the last week. Total cost £42.

That £42 is a full £42 of incremental revenue that has gone into the music industry that otherwise would not have done.

So, who is to say MangoMonkey's actions are not in fact supporting the industry?

Me!

More tomorrow, and very tightly argued, I promise.

ATB from George

Gosh some holier than thou moments here.
So every one has fully legal software, has never speeded, never picked up money in the street and not handed it in etc.
Basically the music industry has screwed it's self but blames every one else.
Home taping is killing music, crap, the industry had it's boom time with CD and ripped huge profits, selling everybody the music they already had. Now they re-package it , re-master it and in the main throw some second rate "extras" ie stuff that was not good enough for the original release.

Not an excuse , but you can understand peoples attitude to this so called "problem".

You bought the music and D/L'd sold the CD on? Artist got his money , buyer may never had bought that CD at RRP , but may well buy other products from that artist.

It is not "Holier than thou" to point out a wrong. It may be debatable, but the morals are clear and the law not much less so ...

Or else we might quite like Pol Pot, or Herr Hitler ...

It is only a matter of degree. And not pointing out failures of discretion would only be a painfully extended version of PC [politcal correctness], so tomorrow will see a vital defense of the rights of [recorded] musicians from thieves from me ...

ATB from George

A guy i work with was telling me about albums he "had".

When I asked to have a listen to some of them I was informed they resided on his hard disk. He's gone to 4 of these bands concerts lately. Has the artist gained or lost by the piracy?

I have about 1600 CDs and 400 LPs but while typing this some Bob Dylan Modern times came on which I have to admit I borrowed, added to my iTunes collection and didn't buy as I didn't rate it that highly. I have about 25 Dylan CDs and 15 LPs.

Who's to bless and who's to blame?

Dear SJB,

You already know the answer. Lifted or obtained correctly. One is right and one is wrong ...

Ah right and wrong.

Black and White

Us and them


Bless and blame


Laurel and Hardy


Is it always wrong to kill?


It's only rock n roll but i like it

The frame work of morality is clear;

The Ten Commandment are the basis of Western Law [like it or nor not]:

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.'

So no stealing and no telling lies ...

Greater minds than ours George (well greater than mine anyway) have struggles with this.

Interesting sister thread in distributed audio.

I'm always cautious of absolutes.

But sure it's no harm at all to discuss and consider these things.


Regards

John

Are you thinking of the animal cruelty thread, where similar thoughts about relative immorality appear?

ATB from George

About 600 CDs after a cleanup. Had 800. Sold another 300 a few years ago. (Why have CDs you don't listen to?)

About 600LPs.

quote:

Originally posted by George Johnson:
Are you thinking of the animal cruelty thread, where similar thoughts about relative immorality appear?

ATB from George

I think you'll find this is the thread..
https://forums.naimaudio.com/ev...2903417/m/2442900737

Another thought to muddy the waters, specifically in the UK.

Between the launch of the CD and the spread of the internet, CDs in the UK generally cost around £16, despite being far cheaper in almost all other countries (I think, certainly the USA).

Apparently the government had an investigation to see if there was a cartel being run by the record industry and its retailers, which did not find one. Personally I would suggest that says more about the UK's lack of ability to bring big business to justice.

If the record companies were running a cartel, and it is very difficult to believe otherwise, then do they not owe us a few downloads to make up for them stealing (or stealing as much as downloading can be considered stealing).

Personally I do try and buy as much music directly from the artists as possible, and do not buy from HMV who were one of the biggest culprits from those days who still survive.

I am aware of that two wrongs do not make a right, but I am also aware of the concept of a closed market, and that those who have wrongly taken should be made to give back.

I really do not think it is such a black and white question as some suggest.

There is also a the carrot, as opposed to stick, approach to getting people to buy CDs legally. When Tool released their last album '10,000 Days', it was reasonably priced, but more than that packaged in such a lovely and impossible to reproduce package that it was a loss not to buy the legitimate product.

3D stereoscopic images with built in viewer lenses form the package for Tool '10,000 Days'.

quote:

Originally posted by MangoMonkey:
When I sell my cds to the second hard store, I consider it charity too. I mean, I'm getting something like 10 dollars for 25 CDs, and he's selling those CDs for maybe a couple of dollars each. That's almost charity, isn't it?

No.

If you lose so much on each CD, then why bother with the little you get from a second hand shop, give that up and give to a charity that helps a cause you believe in. Aid to starving people, home to the homeless at home or abroad, if saving endangered species id your thing, do that, pet protection, helping maintain national parks - and you get somewhere nice to walk back for yourself.

Why not try it, you might just feel better for it than what you can buy with the money from the second hand shop makes you feel.

Between the launch of the CD and the spread of the internet, CDs in the UK generally cost around £16, despite being far cheaper in almost all other countries (I think, certainly the USA).

Apparently the government had an investigation to see if there was a cartel being run by the record industry and its retailers, which did not find one. Personally I would suggest that says more about the UK's lack of ability to bring big business to justice.

If the record companies were running a cartel, and it is very to believe otherwise, then do they not owe us a few downloads to make up for them stealing (or stealing as much as downloading can be considered stealing).

Personally I do try and buy as much music directly from the artists as possible, and do not buy from HMV who were one of the biggest culprits from those days who still survive.

I am aware of that two wrongs do not make a right, but I am also aware of the concept of a closed market, and that those who have wrongly taken should be made to give back.

I really do not think it is such a black and white question as some suggest.

There is also a the carrot, as opposed to stick, approach to getting people to buy CDs legally. When Tool released their last album '10,000 Days', it was reasonably priced, but more than that packaged in such a lovely and impossible to reproduce package that it was a loss not to buy the legitimate product.


No amount of faux excuses can justify theft, and in the West we are reasonably kind about theft "within the administration of Law."

If you cannot afford it, either save till you can or do without.

And yes theft really is a case of black and white, even if that is not a politically incorrect defintion within the new "moral free" definition some would like to impose.

Fancy if your boss told you that last month's wages, owed to you for genuine hard work work, were to be be kept by him for some reason or another! Would you like it? Would you accept it?

I do not know, but I would not ...

quote:

Originally posted by George Johnson:
Fancy if your boss told you that last month's wages, owed to you for genuine hard work work, were to be be kept by him for some reason or another! Would you like it? Would you accept it?

How would you feel if you were told the company you worked for had been shut down because they were breaking the law?

I wouldn't like losing my job, but would feel the company deserved what they got.

The record companies are trying to pretend they are whiter than white, and they have behaved quite dreadfully towards both their customers and their artists on numerous occasions over the years.

quote:

Originally posted by JamieL_v2:

quote:

Originally posted by MangoMonkey:
When I sell my cds to the second hard store, I consider it charity too. I mean, I'm getting something like 10 dollars for 25 CDs, and he's selling those CDs for maybe a couple of dollars each. That's almost charity, isn't it?

No.

If you lose so much on each CD, then why bother with the little you get from a second hand shop, give that up and give to a charity that helps a cause you believe in. Aid to starving people, home to the homeless at home or abroad, if saving endangered species id your thing, do that, pet protection, helping maintain national parks - and you get somewhere nice to walk back for yourself.

Why not try it, you might just feel better for it than what you can buy with the money from the second hand shop makes you feel.

Well, I do give a couple of thousand dollars to charity every year (my spouse insists on it), and my company matches it. One really has nothing to do with the other.

Oh no one by now believes the record companies [like any capialist organisation] are working other than for the shareholders.

Theft from shareholders is still theft and not excepted I would think.

Consider this. The cost to attend a concert is is not much more than to buy a studio recording! And with certain care you can listen to a broadcast of the commercial recording for no more than the cost of the few watts involved and setting up an electric account.

Theft remains theft and is deplorable by any reasonable view of morality.

ATB from George

Ah, but is it theft? In any case, I'm more interested in the morality than in the legality.

Legally, I might be in the wrong, but I could care less.

Morally: I really don't care. Just chill.