HDX full to the brim - where next?
Posted by: andrew jameson on 08 January 2011
Hi there guys
NAS SSD FLAC PCI AARGHHH ... I just can't concentrate when things get even remotely technical so whilst I should be able to solve my own 'problem' I'm hoping that some of you can give me a layman's view
I have a 2 year old HDX with 400GB drives / old PCI & RAM?? ... also have NDAC / 555PS / DC1. The prob is that I'm nearly at capacity (550-ish CDs and maybe room for max 30 more)
So I'm going to need more capacity and of course I'd be more than happy to grab any SQ benefits that may be out there - my questions are as follows:
1. Is the SSD conversion available to me / has anyone done this / is it worth doing? / how much?
2. If I do the above - How do I back up my music to a NAS? Is this a simple task and how does the NAS connect to the HDX?
3. I guess if I'm doing the above should I consider the NDX when it emerges? I know that it's very early days but is there any view on the hierarchy of NDX / HDX when using external NDAC / 555
4. I could upgrade to 2 x 500GB disks plus new PC1 / RAM bits which might buy me some time until a new reference route becomes available - anyone upgraded an older HDX and felt the outlay was worthwhile? How much BTW?
5. is the single 1TB route one worth considering? If i go this way could i just back up to a hard drive without having to go to a permanently connected NAS drive
6. Are there any 'posh' NAS solutions I should look at - I ask because I saw a rather elegant rack mounted box feeding a KDS at a dealers the other day (sorry no idea of the brand)
err think that's it ..
Any thoughts / insights welcome - I shall of course be consulting my dealer in the next month or two
Thanks
Andrew
Posted on: 08 January 2011 by Klout10
Hi Andrew,
That's a nice set you have there! I'll try to give you some answers:
1. Yes, it is possible to convert your HDX to the SSD version. Ask your dealer for details.
2. Since the HDX SSD has no local storage anymore, you have to provide back-ups with/on your NAS.
3. Please bear in mind that - since you cannot rip CD's with an NDX - you'll still need a UnitiServe for example.
4. Sorry, I have no idea. I might be interested in this option myself (if available).
5. No (I've asked), as there is additional metalwork required to fit the new hard-disk drive isolation hardware. Better to move to SSD drive instead...
6. I think others over here might be capable to answer this question.
Regards,
Michel
Posted on: 08 January 2011 by james n
6 - that sounds like a ripnas. Have a look
here for Naims recommended NAS drives.
James
Posted on: 08 January 2011 by andrew jameson
Thanks James - Yes that was the one!
Posted on: 09 January 2011 by garyi
I have to say at a risk of getting tog all excited that a cheap solution would be a vortexbox which would appear to be all n=you need.
Or of course a uniti serve.
Posted on: 09 January 2011 by Tog
Arrrrah .... toooo late .....
Vortexbox updated to 1.7 - just keeps gettng better - not that its a cheap solution since you can install it on some fairly impressive hardware.
It just works. (though I do like the cut of asset's jib as well)
Tog
Posted on: 09 January 2011 by Oceanis
Andrew
Had my HDX for about the same time as you. Invested in NAS comprising Drobo box with two Samsung 1tb disks. This is connected to network with Droboshare link. Not cheap (see Amazon UK) but I think it is a simple solution. The Drobo device protects your data automatically.
Sound quality seems as good as the music stored on the HDX
Good luck with your quest
Posted on: 09 January 2011 by Harry
Klout has covered it. I had my 2x500Gb HDX upgraded to SSD including RAM and sound card for £750. For me there appeared to be a sonic improvement. However, that was not my objective. Everything fails in time. I would much rather recover my music from backups than send it away to Salisbuty and hope. So a NAS was installed soon after my HDX arrived. Listening to the same tracks ripped to NAS versus ripped to internal HDD showed no difference. Music on the internal HDD was transferred to the NAS and all future rips went there too.
I then did the SSD conversion because I didn't need the internal HDDs (I wanted the sound card and RAM updates in any case) and I was not confident that their presence was optimal for sound quality. It's easy to mirror files on the NAS and - most important of all - back up the NAS itself onto another external drive. My NAS box failed in December (I broke it - another story not music related) and both HDDs went down with it. I had copies of both NAS HDDs safely tucked away which I was able to just slide into a new NAS box. In addition, I had a backup of the NAS on an external USB HDD but I didn't need this to restore my music. Backing up is not laborious - the essential requirement is remembering or being bothered to do it when you put new files on. Setting up the NAS itself is very easy to do.
Posted on: 09 January 2011 by jlarsson
I did the upgrade (early HDX -> HDX-SSD with a Netgear ReadyNAS). Moving the music store to the NAS was slow but worked perfectly. Everything just works and the only thing I miss is a mac app to be able to edit the music store database - mostly for downloaded material. Maybe I should write one.
Since most of my system was serviced at the same time I'm not able to judge the improvment in sound quality on the HDX alone.
Posted on: 09 January 2011 by garyi
What ever you do, don't get a drobo and droboshare, the share is just an appalling product.
Apparently the new models with built in ethernet are a 'bit' faster, but all in all a disappointing product on many levels, don't get sucked in by the hype.
Posted on: 09 January 2011 by Klout10
Hi Harry,
Nice reading. This backup issue is the one thing that is holding me back from getting a NAS. I like the one-box solution which the HDX provides, that is the reason I bought it in the first place!
Regards,
Michel
Posted on: 09 January 2011 by Harry
The one box solution may last longer than you do but at some point something will fail. You or your descendants will then have to recover the files. It's a lot less complicated than setting up an arm and cartridge - although I haven't done that for years. All the best with it.
Posted on: 09 January 2011 by Tog
quote:
Originally posted by Klout10:
Hi Harry,
Nice reading. This backup issue is the one thing that is holding me back from getting a NAS. I like the one-box solution which the HDX provides, that is the reason I bought it in the first place!
Regards,
Michel
A good NAS is certainly the best solution - you can hide it away and forget about it - (after you have backed it up of course but that need not be too onerous)
Most of them have backup facilities or just make a copy or two as you go.
Tog
Posted on: 09 January 2011 by Harry
I have two mirrored 1TB HDDs in the NAS and two 1TB HDDs carefully bagged up in a padded box. Every time I add files I rotate the HDDs so that I have one backup running live in the NAS and two stored off board. If the box and both HDDs fail I have an instant solution. I also keep a spare empty NAS boxed up for such a catastrophe. In addition I run a back up of the NAS onto a 1TB USB external drive whenever I put new files on the NAS. Anal huh? The total cost of all this amounts to a fraction of what my CD collection is worth. Downloaded HiRes files are stored on USB sticks (plus a back up stick for each) and stored on my PC - which is also backed up nightly. It sounds laborious but it's just basic house keeping, it doesn't have to be fully set up and instigated from day one, and it's mostly background stuff. If I hot swap a HDD I can still listen to music. Ditto when backing up via USB. Downloaded files start their life with me on my PC in any case. I hope this sounds more logical than complicated! That's the problem with this lark - trying to explain a simple operation gets jargon saturated and sounds more boring/complicated than it is.
Posted on: 09 January 2011 by Tog
quote:
Originally posted by Harry K:
I have two mirrored 1TB HDDs in the NAS and two 1TB HDDs carefully bagged up in a padded box. Every time I add files I rotate the HDDs so that I have one backup running live in the NAS and two stored off board. If the box and both HDDs fail I have an instant solution. I also keep a spare empty NAS boxed up for such a catastrophe. In addition I run a back up of the NAS onto a 1TB USB external drive whenever I put new files on the NAS. Anal huh? The total cost of all this amounts to a fraction of what my CD collection is worth. Downloaded HiRes files are stored on USB sticks (plus a back up stick for each) and stored on my PC - which is also backed up nightly. It sounds laborious but it's just basic house keeping, it doesn't have to be fully set up and instigated from day one, and it's mostly background stuff. If I hot swap a HDD I can still listen to music. Ditto when backing up via USB. Downloaded files start their life with me on my PC in any case. I hope this sounds more logical than complicated! That's the problem with this lark - trying to explain a simple operation gets jargon saturated and sounds more boring/complicated than it is.
Just because you paranoid doesn't mean your hard drives aren't out to get you.
Belt and braces
Tog
Posted on: 09 January 2011 by Harry
Oh yeah. Got the T Shirt.
Posted on: 09 January 2011 by Eloise
quote:
Originally posted by Harry K:
I have two mirrored 1TB HDDs in the NAS and two 1TB HDDs carefully bagged up in a padded box. Every time I add files I rotate the HDDs so that I have one backup running live in the NAS and two stored off board. If the box and both HDDs fail I have an instant solution. I also keep a spare empty NAS boxed up for such a catastrophe. In addition I run a back up of the NAS onto a 1TB USB external drive whenever I put new files on the NAS. Anal huh? The total cost of all this amounts to a fraction of what my CD collection is worth. Downloaded HiRes files are stored on USB sticks (plus a back up stick for each) and stored on my PC - which is also backed up nightly. It sounds laborious but it's just basic house keeping, it doesn't have to be fully set up and instigated from day one, and it's mostly background stuff. If I hot swap a HDD I can still listen to music. Ditto when backing up via USB. Downloaded files start their life with me on my PC in any case. I hope this sounds more logical than complicated! That's the problem with this lark - trying to explain a simple operation gets jargon saturated and sounds more boring/complicated than it is.
Harry, just a thought but you realise probably one of the most delicate parts ona standard SATA setup is probably the connector which is really not designed for regular repeated swapping in and out. I would have thought additional backup onto USB connected drives, or setting up your second NAS and syncing the data between them would be a more reliable method of additional backup.
It seams strange (to me) to be paranoid over backups to the extent you talk about, then use a backup method that NO professional would consider or recommend (swapping drives in a NAS) - they just aren't designed to work like that (even if they do). Have you tried putting the two "spare" drives into the alternative enclosure to see if they even work - I wouldn't be surprised if they are not readable.
Finally I would question if (as I read your post/description) you backup methodology will protect you from the No1 cause of data loss: user error and corruption caused by software / OS (i.e. not from hardware faults).
At the end of the day, you may be happy with your backup methodology of swapping drives within a NAS enclosure but it should NOT be recommended to others.
Eloise
Posted on: 10 January 2011 by Harry
I haven't had any problems with hot or cold swapping so far. It's not a frequent event because I don't add CDs to the NAS frequently, Hi Res downloads are occupying more of my time. Your point about running a backup NAS is well made. I've been thinking about this and it will probably be my next move. Maybe a little voice is telling me it will be safer than sliding HDDs in and out. Whatever the subconscious message, I am feeling motivated to get this running. I can only recommend what works for me. I am not aware of any rules compelling me to NOT share information. AUP/rules accepted.
Posted on: 10 January 2011 by garyi
Nases depening on how you have them set up seem to be formatted in such a way as to mirror at least part of the other drives in the array and as a result seem to be formatted that they are not readable other than by the array they are in, if that makes sense.
The QNAP has a one touch copy facility and can be set up for scheduled back ups to a USB drive which is what I have.
Posted on: 10 January 2011 by Phil Harris
quote:
Originally posted by Eloise:
Harry, just a thought but you realise probably one of the most delicate parts ona standard SATA setup is probably the connector which is really not designed for regular repeated swapping in and out. I would have thought additional backup onto USB connected drives, or setting up your second NAS and syncing the data between them would be a more reliable method of additional backup.
It seams strange (to me) to be paranoid over backups to the extent you talk about, then use a backup method that NO professional would consider or recommend (swapping drives in a NAS) - they just aren't designed to work like that (even if they do). Have you tried putting the two "spare" drives into the alternative enclosure to see if they even work - I wouldn't be surprised if they are not readable.
Finally I would question if (as I read your post/description) you backup methodology will protect you from the No1 cause of data loss: user error and corruption caused by software / OS (i.e. not from hardware faults).
At the end of the day, you may be happy with your backup methodology of swapping drives within a NAS enclosure but it should NOT be recommended to others.
Eloise
Have to agree with Eloise on this one - swapping drives in and out of a NAS that is functioning correctly isn't a good idea - you've proven that the unit can recover from a failed drive by swapping drives over and I would strongly suggest that you leave the drives in the NAS alone now until one fails and then swap in one of the spares.
By swapping drives around you are leaving your data more vulnerable as your unit is constantly rebuilding the "new" drive as well as swapping out caddies and connectors that generally aren't designed to be replaced on a regular basis.
Cheers
Phil
Posted on: 10 January 2011 by Harry
quote:
Originally posted by garyi:
The QNAP has a one touch copy facility and can be set up for scheduled back ups to a USB drive which is what I have.
Ditto the ReadyNAS Duo. A very useful and foolproof feature.
Thank you all for the input on HDD "merry go rounds". Food for thought and a push to get me to a better place.
Posted on: 10 January 2011 by pcstockton
Back-up NAS. Hilarious.... for some reason.
Its funny that people always state "storage is so cheap these days!!!"
Yet we never are spending less on it than we were previously.
Posted on: 10 January 2011 by pcstockton
oh, I know allen.... It just cracks me up. that's all.
Posted on: 10 January 2011 by Harry
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:
Back-up NAS. Hilarious.... for some reason.
Its funny that people always state "storage is so cheap these days!!!"
Yet we never are spending less on it than we were previously.
Correct. But the cost IS low compared to what's on the rack and/or sitting on the CD shelf. It's basic housekeeping which applies to all valuable data. I just don't mix my other data with my music files. I could do I suppose. It's just become a kind of convention for me to keep the audio ring fenced, so to speak.
