Extreme Uniti frustration

Can yu give some further details of your specific network environment ?

Are you using wireless or wired connection on the Uniti ?

Are you switching the router off when not using your system ? ("not worry about whether I have turned on my router/computer/Uniti in the correct order") There should "normaly" be no reason to switch your router or uniti off...

Where is your music stored ? same PC that is running the Upnp software ?

Are Asset and the Foobar UpnP component both UpnP servers in their own right ?...maybe there is a conflict between the 2..i.e. fighting to broadcast on the same port maybe (users of foobar and asset may be able to shed further light).

I have personally found the Uniti very good at streaming wirelessly...but I did go through a bit of initial pain on selecting UpnP software I was happy with, ultimately settling on Twonky (tried Asset, Windows media player, XBOX media center and one other I can't remember - I found tham all either flaky or non intuitive to manage).

Have you sought advice from the dealer you purchased it from ?

Regards

Bruce

Hi,

I have read on other forums that the routers provided as part of broadband packages are often not of the best quality, so that could be a part of the issue.

I know that in my house the wireless connection is not good enough to transfer lossless files over wireless to the listening room, stone walls etc. Check the wireless single strength and throughput, eg use a PC with Foobar or the dbpoweramp client and test whether it can play a lossless file successfully in the same location as your uniti.

I have also heard others saying that it is best to have only one uPnP server running, personally I prefer asset.

Hope these suggestions help to solve your problems.

David

Tom,

I'm not sure if you are storing your files on a laptop or desktop computer but assuming a desktop then I would suggest you forget wireless and use one of the networking powerplugs that allows an ethernet connection via the mains supply. Try and get ones which have Gigabit capacity if you can.

I do not have a NaimUniti but I have found that wireless only works well streaming across a single 'leg' - so for example if I was to stream from the computer to a base station and then from there to a streamer I could anticipate drop outs from time to time.

I live in a large warehouse conversion with no obstructions to the wireless signal but found that I still got occasional drop outs - until I got powerplugs or hardwired the final link.

I seem to remember that Naim mentions using this type of connection for use with the HDX (as it has no in-built wireless capability).

If I can recommend the following application, it is free and was by far and away the most robust upnp server for uniti never dropping or ballsing up once.

XBMC

Its a full media server application but sat in the background has very little resource requirements.

Once installed turn on the UPNP function on it and point it at your music library. It will appear o the uniti.

See how you get on.

Tom doesn't say if the Uniti is his only music source. Many Uniti owners are will not necessarily be NAIM HiFi owners,they will expect it to be essentially a P and P item.Surly there is a failure of some kind if they are not told that these products won't work consistently with what will probably be the most common household products, ie BT home Hub Virgin boxes or the cheaper Maplin/Comet available routers.


If I buy a car I don't expect to have to change the tyres to make it run well all the time , maybe occasionally they might not be the right ones.

Not ALL potential NAIM owners are geeks or expect to have to fit after market products to make something work.

I share Tom's sense of frustration , and I don't even own a Uniti.
There seems a lack of information or knowledge here I feel from the retailer.

quote:

Originally posted by BigH47:
Tom doesn't say if the Uniti is his only music source. Many Uniti owners are will not necessarily be NAIM HiFi owners,they will expect it to be essentially a P and P item.Surly there is a failure of some kind if they are not told that these products won't work consistently with what will probably be the most common household products, ie BT home Hub Virgin boxes or the cheaper Maplin/Comet available routers.


If I buy a car I don't expect to have to change the tyres to make it run well all the time , maybe occasionally they might not be the right ones.

Not ALL potential NAIM owners are geeks or expect to have to fit after market products to make something work.

I share Tom's sense of frustration , and I don't even own a Uniti.
There seems a lack of information or knowledge here I feel from the retailer.

dealers should know or direct customer. audio is only a small part of their business nowadays.

better manufacturers manuals would help, most are basic .the naim dac one is poor

Hello everyone,
Thank you for taking the time to respond with your suggestions.

To answer some of your questions:
The Uniti is my only music source. My setup is pretty simple; My music is stored on my desktop PC (windows 7 64 bit)which has the two UPnP servers on it that i mentioned. I have a wireless router from O2 (Thomson TG585 v7)which is streaming directly to my Uniti.

Illustrate (makers of the Asset server) said that there shouldn't be a conflict with more than one server running on my PC - if anyone has experience to the contrary i would be interested to hear your comments. Incidentally, i don't always run them both at the same time.

When streaming successfully the signal has a full buffer, and seems to be ok with lossless files.

Initially i had difficulty finding a wireless channel that would connect reliably, but I think i've now found one that doesn't clash with other networks in the area - for the time being! I'd like to have a wired connection, but rewiring my flat is not something i can really justify. The mains network idea is something i have been considering, but i'd read differing opinions about how good this was. John, have you had any problems? The wiring in my flat is about 25 years old, so i don't know if that would be an issue.

I tried turning the uniti/router/PC off and on, because this was some advice that I received from Naim HQ. I can see the sense in trying to reset the components, but i now think this is a bit of a red herring, and it was necessary because of some other underlying problem - in my case clashing wireless channels.

I have considered getting a new router, but Naim told me that currently if you have a wireless-N router (which most of the new ones are)there is a conflict with the Uniti which causes it to default to wireless 'A'. So I have not bothered.

One of the main problems I have is that it is difficult to troubleshoot which part of my setup is responsible - is it the wireless connection, the UPnP server, media formats, or tagging? Any of these can result in the same 'input initialising' response. Just when you think you've sorted it, something else happens - which is what led me to write this post.

Thinking about my current problem, it seems to be a few tracks that won't play, and result in the dreaded 'input initialising' screen. They're standard MP3 tracks, they play fine on my PC, they're tagged correctly as far as I can see, and are of a format that the Uniti handles(ID3v2.3). I'm a bit stumped.

I agree that the retailers should be more knowledgeable. My retailer made a point of telling me that he was not interested in digital music of any kind, and knew nothing about it. He gave the impression that it wasn't really Hi-Fi. I really don't feel there is much point in me going to them for help.

So there we have it! I am making progress, but no one told me it would be this hard.
On the plus side, it sounds fantastic and is a major improvement over my previous Hi-Fi.

I don't suppose there is anyway you can run an ethernet lead to the uniti?

All in all wired is always best.

Wireless A is beyond slow. The first ever laptop to have wireless was an original clamshell iBook and that was wireless A

If you suspect the problems more likely on a few known tracks, then why not get a length of ethernet cable from Maplins for a few quid and use it to make a temporary connection. If the problem goes away you'll know it's likely a wireless issue, if it stays you'll know you need to look elsewhere.

Unfortunately running an ethernet cable is not possible in it's desired location. I actually think the connection is probably ok, and the inconsistent behaviour is due to some other gremlins in my set up. I've done a fair bit of testing with it wired by ethernet cable, and my hunch is that the problems originate from either UPnP software, metadata, or some strange file incompatibility.

It would be good to have some best practice guidelines from Naim on this.

All UPnP servers should send the actual audio tracks as-is, untouched. It might be one or two tracks which are causing issue, or it might be the wireless link.

Interesting reading, I have win7 64bit, the same Thomspson router (on BE) and I have ordered a Uniti.

I don't really rate the router so I have just bought a decent wired switch to connect all LAN stuff and run the ADSL into the switch. The thompson router often stops working for a few mins at a time and I get the "network cable unpluged" in windows (in the system tray) after this it normally comes back to life.

To eliminte the wireless as the problem can you not run a long length of CAT5 across the house as a very temp measure? ie just chuck the cable anywhere even if its in the way!

I have a long run of CAT5 running across my house and its just tucked under the edge of carpets and cable tacked down in a few places. I have drilled one small hole in the wall, but I'm sure with a longer cable and more patience I could have found a better solution than drilliing. In anycase I prefer wired over wireless netowkring and with cat5 costing next to nothing it's not expensive to have long runs of it.

Enjoy your uniti (I'm waiting for mine to arrive at the dealers) and let me know how you get on.

Dave

Edit: Just read that you have tried CAT5 briefly with the same results. If you have a mate who has a wired router/spare switch hanging about might be worth trying that to eliminate the Thompson router.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom_W:
The mains network idea is something i have been considering, but i'd read differing opinions about how good this was. John, have you had any problems? The wiring in my flat is about 25 years old, so i don't know if that would be an issue.

Tom,

No, no problems so far.

I have set one of these (a Belkin Power Line) up in my flat for audio streaming purposes and a Netgear one at my parents house some time ago to deal with poor connectivity between their router and the computer which is upstairs (wireless was intermittent).

In both cases no problems (but I found the Belkin one slightly easier to set up).

I did notice at my flat there was one socket that was not quite as high-speed as others so I don't use that one.

My parents house has ancient wiring (50's) and is a constant source of concern (to my mother) that it will burn down due to this.

I really think mains ethernet would help.

Hi,

I would recommend the following tests:

1-take the Unity close to the router,plug in a CAT5 cable (just for test purposes) and try to reproduce the issues that you are having in the present room.If OK you find the issue (wireless).If KO go to 2.

2- Take another computer and try to make it connected (wireless and/or cabled) as a client to your laptop running the server SW.If OK, the Pb is with the Unity (we will dig in later on).If KO go to 3.

3- If you don't have one yourself, borrow a Router of any kind from somebody you know and build a very basic local network: Uniti-Laptop.And try to reproduce the issue...If OK you find the issue (O2 router), if KO....well...we will advise...


Let us know...

Rgds

MA

Thanks again for your comments.
To be honest, i think there are different problems at different times.
I have just got my rogue files to play by stripping out all the tags and then pasting them back in using MP3tag. I also re-embedding the artwork as this has caused me problems before (they had been edited using windows media player previously). Has anyone else had this issue?

I also found that I needed to force the restart of the Asset server.
In the process of all this, my Uniti could no longer see any UPnP servers, even though it was still connected to the network and streaming iRadio fine. This is where turning it off and on sorts things out.

Dave, what you say about the Thomson router is interesting. I have experienced the same dropouts. It may be related to the channel it's on, but i don't rate the router as a product either.

John, i will look into the Belkin power line. Cheers.

And, finally, when i have some time (not this week unfortunately), i will try another router.

With any spare time left, i shall put a CD into that strange swing out tray thing and relax with several large gins!

Please try XBMC. I think you are blaming the wrong thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom_W:
I have considered getting a new router, but Naim told me that currently if you have a wireless-N router (which most of the new ones are)there is a conflict with the Uniti which causes it to default to wireless 'A'. So I have not bothered.

Is that for real ?! I didn't know the Uniti wasn't N, just presumed it would have been....I can't believe that in 2009 a manufacturer would have fitted anything less than N for wireless, especially for something as bandwidth/quality dependent as audio....Mad !

I must admit, I very rarely use wireless for anything but a light bit of surfing on the laptops (even though I have 2 separate 5Ghz N networks) but appreciate for some wired isn't always going to be an option...

I hope you get your problems sorted Tom as soon as poss, whether it be router/UPnP/files or the Uniti and get to enjoy your DA as much as the rest of the Uniti's functions....It's a real shame it sounds like you cannot garner more help from your dealer (as should be the case with any Naim retailer and is the general advise here on the forum) - with the (increasing) DA based products in Naim's portfolio these days, it really isn't good enough for dealers to be heard saying 'they are not really interested'....

Steve.

The most reliable and consistantly available setup for ANY digital music player (no matter what the brand) is:

A NAS hard drive with built in UpnP server with a hard wired connection to the player.

Benifits:

1. Music is available 24/7 independant of a PC or MAC being switched on (and the NAS is likely to consume far less power than a PC or laptop).

2. Small foot print NAS can be situated close to the uniti with minimal noise polution.

3. Wireless problems caused by who knows what are completely eliminated.

Music ripping and uploading to the NAS is really the only remaining issue and a hardwired connection to the NAS would be far preferrable to ripping to it wirelessly. Some NAS box's offer dual USB and ethernet connections (D-link 313 for example), so rip to the PC and when you have some new music to upload to it briefly move it to your PC and connect it via USB.

Given the number of things that can go wrong with the almost infinate combination of individual home networks (UpnP software, Router cofigurations, etc) I see that this is a problem that can potentially affect a significant number of people. I am sure that even if Naim bundled a UpnP server software package there would still be customers experiencing dropouts caused by either badly configured wireless networks or poor performing network hardware.

THE HDX/NS01 server upgrade now includes UpnP server functions and it would not surprise me if Naim elect to include a stand alone music ripper/UpnP server solution in their range at a lower price point as a way of providing a complete end to end solution.

Any device on a wireless N network which is not N will bring the whole network down to its speed.

I should imagine the uniti is not bringing a wireless network down to A speeds which would result in transfer speeds on the network slower than dial up. (Well a bit quicker but my point remains)

Apple have dealt with this in their new extreme by having twin antenna one N and the other G, but both on the same subset so to the user looking like one network. I am sure other manufacturers have done the same.

I at first had some issues as you describe. Once I moved my audio files to a Netgear Ready NAS (using it's own built in UPnP), no drops have occurred (router is wireless-N). ***Using dedicated hardware to stream music files is the most reliable setup.

I have to say, on the wireless N front, it was only a brief conversation i had with Naim, so I'd probably want some confirmation on the details from them before taking this as gospel truth.

I will probably get a dedicated NAS at some stage as it does sound like it's a more reliable solution. Unfortunately for the time being i'll have to live with my current setup.

garyi, i will have a look at XBMC. Thanks for the suggestion.

quote:

Originally posted by PureHifi:
...it would not surprise me if Naim elect to include a stand alone music ripper/UpnP server solution in their range at a lower price point as a way of providing a complete end to end solution.

The same thought came to me this morning whilst I was unloading the dishwasher.

I think this is what we really need - a discless HDX.

quote:

it would not surprise me if Naim elect to include a stand alone music ripper/UpnP server solution in their range at a lower price point as a way of providing a complete end to end solution

You mean a computer?

Hello Tom_W,
I encounter similar problem than you with my Uniti. I posted some information in your previous thread (this one) but at this time I have not found a solution to the issue.
Refering to PureHiFi and Music_Addict posts : my test configuration is "minimal" : Uniti is connected to a Synology DS209 NAS with embedded server via a D-Link gigabyte switch and 2 Cat5 ethernet wires. No more modem, no router, no PC ... and streaming problem, exactly as you describe it.
My opinion is the problem is not due to network or some harware configuration but is a software issue between some server and some renderer (conflict or hanshake missing i.e.). In fact connection loss appears abruptly : server and renderer stop to communicate simultanously. Synology support team analysed log files and answered me that sometimes Uniti stops connection with server.
Later, I'll try to post a network diagram which shows emission and reception between Uniti and NAS.
Your idea that music tags could be a cause of the issue is interesting. It's a way for my future investigation (I use FLAC encoding).
For your problem, I suggest that you test J. Rivers Media Server on your PC. You can get a 30 days free license on their web site. I used it on my PC with Windows 7 32 bits, and it works perfectly with the Uniti. Yes it does !
I agree with you : Uniti is a nice product with great sound and the "all in one" concept is wonderfull ... when it works.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom_W:
Unfortunately running an ethernet cable is not possible in it's desired location. I actually think the connection is probably ok, and the inconsistent behaviour is due to some other gremlins in my set up. I've done a fair bit of testing with it wired by ethernet cable, and my hunch is that the problems originate from either UPnP software, metadata, or some strange file incompatibility.

It would be good to have some best practice guidelines from Naim on this.

Perhaps you could set up the wireless network as a single-client network, though there are some practical concerns as regards the NaimUniti software's lack of manual SSID entry.

The killer combo is single-client, closed network (SSID is not broadcast) with access restricted by MAC address. This assures you that no other potential clients can split or subdivide the available bandwidth, leaving any remaining bandwidth issues to wireless permeability throughout your location (which has NOTHING to do with the NaimUniti, and becomes your problem to fix).