Extreme Uniti frustration
Posted by: Tom_W on 30 January 2010
I write this post with some frustration and apprehension, however my experience with my Uniti has not lived up to my expectations of Naim products.
Having persevered with it for over two months, my main complaint is with the robustness of its wireless streaming capability. The other more conventional functions like sound quality, CD playback, and radio are excellent, but the UPnp functions have been sorely disappointing.
Primarily the Uniti seems unable to reliably stream from my UPnP server. When you pay £2000 for a piece of kit, you expect the advertised functions to work flawlessly - this is probably the main unique selling point of the Uniti, and it is far from flawless. More times than not when I select a track it results in a lengthy 'Input Initialising' message without successfully playing the track. I have tested it in multiple configurations and performance is unpredictable and not reliable. Currently, Windows Media player is the most reliable source, and that sells the Uniti well short, with its lack of flac compatibility and terrible interface.
I recognise that UPnP is not a mature technology, but there appears to be little integration by Naim with the main UPnP software developers to iron out these issues. Other posts on the forum appear to point to similar problems. Why is there not a recommended list of UPnP software, that has true Naim compatibility?
As a user, what I want is to be able to turn on my Uniti, and play the music I want, not worry about whether I have turned on my router/computer/Uniti in the correct order (this appears to affect whether I have success or failure).
So, issues I have:
The order of turning on computer/Uniti affects connection
No knowledge of which UPnP servers are reliable on which different operating systems
The lack of free wireless channels on built up areas can compromise streaming (surely wireles-N should be a consideration?)
No published results from router tests (i.e. are free routers supplied by broadband suppliers up to the job?)
No recommended UPnP software (the recommendations in the troubleshooting guide are out of date)
Please supply kit to UPnP developers so that they can tune their software (this appears to be what Linn does??)
Software I use - dBpoweramp Asset, and Foobar with UpnP component. These are both good applications, and more importantly are constantly evolving to embrace new products - but no mention of Naim. They work very well when I am able to 'initialise the input' and connect
If this seems like a rant I apologise. I've just run out of goodwill, and want to listen to my music in another room from my computer.
Regards
Tom
Posted on: 03 February 2010 by dk2
I agree with Tom; I had a Uniti for two weeks, tried everything including installing CAT5 cable so the whole thing was hard-wired, got bits working but never everything and never to the standard I had hoped for £2K worth of kit...
Eventually took it back and got a CD5 XS and a Nait XS which obviously works flawlessly. Maybe I should have bought a Supernait with DAC included for the future...? I currently have a Firestone Audio Fubar and Supplier which is a massive improvement on the DAC inside my iMac and fine for Spotify and iTunes (USB connection).
Posted on: 03 February 2010 by rich46
quote:
Originally posted by dk2:
I agree with Tom; I had a Uniti for two weeks, tried everything including installing CAT5 cable so the whole thing was hard-wired, got bits working but never everything and never to the standard I had hoped for £2K worth of kit...
Eventually took it back and got a CD5 XS and a Nait XS which obviously works flawlessly. Maybe I should have bought a Supernait with DAC included for the future...? I currently have a Firestone Audio Fubar and Supplier which is a massive improvement on the DAC inside my iMac and fine for Spotify and iTunes (USB connection).
it seems there is alot of costomers than have trouble with the two units with regard software etc. seems about time that naim cleared it up. if the cute is put on the market with this feedback and confusion may reduce interest in this type of system.
ive had the dac since december feed by a sonos z90 and a seperate nas .total cost not including the naimdac of £310 the quality \flac\is extremely good and very near the quality of cd but with easy access to 2500 cds. use iphone for control which is excellent. no conflicts or drops out etc allan
.
Posted on: 03 February 2010 by David Dever
quote:
it seems there is alot of costomers than have trouble with the two units with regard software etc. seems about time that naim cleared it up. if the cute is put on the market with this feedback and confusion may reduce interest in this type of system.
My thought? Get your retailer to sort it out for you, full stop. Experience with these units in the field supports the notion that the products work best when properly supported, rather than leaving one to one's own, err, devices....
Posted on: 04 February 2010 by dk2
quote:
My thought? Get your retailer to sort it out for you, full stop. Experience with these units in the field supports the notion that the products work best when properly supported, rather than leaving one to one's own, err, devices....
But is it fair to expect the retailer to sort out IT problems which can be many and varied when they are selling a piece of hifi which probably works OK? My dealer made a number of visits to try to help but we both gave up in the end. With the plethora of different platforms, programs etc these visits could last days and might eventually be problems with ISP, broadband etc. which cannot, surely, be down to the Naim retailer to fix.
Posted on: 04 February 2010 by David Dever
So whose responsibility is it?
Posted on: 04 February 2010 by james n
The system should be designed to be plug and play. Naim are entering a market with the Uniti and Qute that is targetting the iPod generation who expect Apple type ease of setup. Sonos / Squeezebox systems manage it. I'm sure dealer margin on the Uniti etc aren't like the big Naim boxes so expecting the dealers to trouble shoot network connection issues etc is expecting a bit much ?
James
Posted on: 04 February 2010 by js
Trust me, Sonos doesn't always just plug and play without dealer help either and it's a closed system. I always recommend a physical connection where possible. Takes the network wireless blips out of the equation. Even Sonos works better this way and the protocals are better for streaming.
Posted on: 04 February 2010 by Aleg
quote:
Originally posted by james n:
The system should be designed to be plug and play. Naim are entering a market with the Uniti and Qute that is targetting the iPod generation who expect Apple type ease of setup. Sonos / Squeezebox systems manage it. I'm sure dealer margin on the Uniti etc aren't like the big Naim boxes so expecting the dealers to trouble shoot network connection issues etc is expecting a bit much ?
James
That's what I mean when I say UPnP technologyis immature.
It only works easy when all components are developed by one party and adjusted to each other, like Sonos and Squeezebox/Logitech.
Otherwise you will have to search for the lucky combination of components and codecs that happen to be working.
No Plug-'n-Play with this technology at all.
-
aleg
Posted on: 04 February 2010 by Frank Abela
Our experience with Sonos has been that it is very much just Plug'n'Play - dead easy to use and very robust. Also, very few customers indeed have reported dropouts (but there have been one or two). However, one fundamental difference you have to remember with the Sonos system is that each Sonos box is not just a streamer but also a good quality router. This is why so few dropouts occur. Most people expect a £40 router to be able to do everything. The Naim gives the lie to that.
Me? I'd just like my £40 router not to dropout several times during the day when I'm just 5m away in direct line of sight!
Posted on: 04 February 2010 by Aleg
quote:
Originally posted by Frank Abela:
Our experience with Sonos has been that it is very much just Plug'n'Play - dead easy to use and very robust. Also, very few customers indeed have reported dropouts (but there have been one or two). However, one fundamental difference you have to remember with the Sonos system is that each Sonos box is not just a streamer but also a good quality router. This is why so few dropouts occur. Most people expect a £40 router to be able to do everything. The Naim gives the lie to that.
Me? I'd just like my £40 router not to dropout several times during the day when I'm just 5m away in direct line of sight!
Frank
That's exactly what I mean, when you have a complete system with all the components from one manufacturer then you know it will work fine.
But if you have to mix and match components from different manufacturers then you can get into trouble quite easily when using UPnP-technology.
-
aleg
Posted on: 04 February 2010 by james n
TwonkyQute anyone ?
Posted on: 04 February 2010 by dk2
quote:
Originally posted by David Dever
So whose responsibility is it?
Perhaps the answer is for dealers to have one combination for mac, one for pc etc (twonky, itunes whatever...) that they are happy to set up with say three albums that they ensure works. If the customer's set up doesn't function they can offer to set up their tried and tested one and leave that working 100%...
Posted on: 05 February 2010 by garyi
I think most of the times people are happy to pay £2k for a streamer but use a BT router at home.
The router is the single most important part of a network, pay some money and get a decent one. Probelms tend to dissapear.
I am always amused by people mentioning only the occasional drop out or needing to reboot the router once a week like this is acceptable. Its not. Routers should have up time of allt he time, but you have to spend a few quid.
Posted on: 05 February 2010 by likesmusic
Garyi - what router(s) would you suggest?
Posted on: 05 February 2010 by 0rangutan
I have always done well using Netgear models, however I prefer to take the ADSL router out of my LAN setup and use this only for Internet connectivity. I use an Apple TimeCapsule (Airport Extreme is very similar) and use this for my wired and wireless LAN. This then connects to the ADSL router to get out to the Internet. Doing it this way gives me a higher performance and very reliable network for streaming to my iMac, Laptops, Uniti, AppleTV and PS3, all without any drop outs or reboots required.
As Gary says, it is worth spending £100 or so on decent networking kit and not sticking with the free box from your ISP.
Posted on: 05 February 2010 by garyi
Draytek 2820
I know I am talking to people here who are not short of a few bob. This will set you back 200 quid or 100 second hand.
I picked one up for 100 quid with wireless N. They all come with gigabit ethernet which I have connected to an USRobotics 16port ethernet managed switch. Both are rock solid. I would find it unacceptable to have to reboot my router weekly, monthly or anything else. It has adsl, adsl2 adsl2+ and if you cannot get any of that you can plug your Mobile providers dongle and use that. It has every setting under the sun 99% of which you won't use. But importantly its rock solid. Turn on UPNP and you have the best handshake possible between server and uniti.
I have had reasonable use out of Netgear, My step dad had a range max and it was crap, but I think he got a lemon because they do seem to be good in general.
The over riding factor of shitness in any UK home network is the BT homehub. Its shit, its built shit, its not even a router any how and its shit. And there are plenty of people looking at it glowing blue thinking its the only way to get wireless or to get internet and its because BT like you to think that and people don't do even a tiny little bit of research. Bin your homehub, its a shit product in a shiny box, (Which actually is a bit plastiky and shit)
Posted on: 15 February 2010 by Jon Myles
quote:
The over riding factor of shitness in any UK home network is the BT homehub. Its shit, its built shit, its not even a router any how and its shit. And there are plenty of people looking at it glowing blue thinking its the only way to get wireless or to get internet and its because BT like you to think that and people don't do even a tiny little bit of research. Bin your homehub, its a shit product in a shiny box, (Which actually is a bit plastiky and shit)
You don't like them then?
Seriously, though, I'd agree. I do have a BT home hub for internet use and it's fine. Works fine for Internet radio on the Uniti as well.
But when I get round to streaming music to my Uniti I'd be looking to find something better.
Strikes me as perverse that people can spend £2,000 on the Uniti and then think a giveaway free box with their internet/phone connection is going to be up to the task of sending music to it at decent quality with reliability.
Posted on: 15 February 2010 by garyi
The reality is it should be up to the task, but BT homehubs are not that, they are not a hub. For a little outlay you can have a proper router in the house doing the job properly. If after that it all goes wrong, well you can blame the uniti
Posted on: 15 February 2010 by divuk83
I'm probably going to keep my crappy "bebox" however for LAN duties I have just bought a HP Procurve Switch 1400-8G. Looks pretty solidly built and has a very long warranty, pretty good for 50 squid. All I need now is my Uniti.......
Dave
