Carlos Kleiber - Beethoven 6th

Basil

Do persevere. Yes, the recording quality is bad and his speeds are brisk, but don't sound (to me) too fast. Orfeo also released a recording of him conducting LvB's Fourth Symphony some years ago. Superb, and much better sound.

I had the good fortune to see CK conduct his one and only UK orchestral concert many years ago. The man was a towering genius and it's sad that his insecurities led him to play so few pieces, and record even fewer.

G

quote:

I had the good fortune to see CK conduct his one and only UK orchestral concert many years ago. The man was a towering genius and it's sad that his insecurities led him to play so few pieces, and record even fewer.

There doesn't seem to be an "emoticon" to cover "seething jealousy"


I have no problem with the recording, if I may be permitted to drag hi-fi into the hallowed halls of the Music forum for a second. One of the major strengths of the 72 is that it doesn't draw your attention to poor recordings, OK, bad records and CDs still sound bad but they are enjoyable non the less.


I'm just not convinced that the Pastoral Symphony is suited to Kleibers brand of genius. But as I said in my original post, I will return to this as I’ve hated things before on first hearing and then at a later date, perhaps after hearing the piece on the radio or at a concert, its had a second outing and something clicks. The best example of this is the Beethoven Violin concerto, I loathed this piece of music, couldn’t stand it. Then, out of the blue, I decided to give it one more try after yet another lecture from one of the record shop regulars.

I now rate it as the best Violin concerto ever written! Very closely followed by the Sibelius.

Basil

Just after I bought CK's Beethoven 6, I had the misfortune to suffer the rail journey from hell. We were eventually detrained and bussed round the country in order to get to our destination. Thing was, I had my CD Walkman and one disc: CK's B 6. So I played it in rotation five or six times over. And I was sad, in the end, that the bus didn't get lost!

G

Kleiber’s Pastorale offers a vastly different take than most other major conductors. I think he manages to make the brisk tempi work very well; it all holds together nicely. Compare his take to Herman Scherchen’s awful attempt, with a jagged, jerky sound, and one can appreciate Kleiber’s achievement. Ultimately, I still prefer more flowing, slower performances (Bohm, Furtwangler, Papa Kleiber), but Kleiber’s offers a fine alternative outlook.

Furtwangler's recording with the Vienna Phil has it for me. Karajan is a good all-things-to-all men reading ('70s with the BPO). I've been listening to Toscanini's live NBC Broadcast recording (on Naxos, 1939) but can't get on with it; don't let it put you off the rest of that series though... there're some blistering perfomances among them! (Especially Nos 3, 4, 9, and a fascinating recording of the Choral Fantasia.)

Earwicker

Carlos Kleiber's 6th is one of the greatest recordings of this work. It is fast, but by doing so Kleiber illuminates so many facets of the score that it is genuinely a revelatory performance.

On the other hand, Klemperer's slow, marmoreal performance is equally revelatory.

Ross

Although I feel this work was Beethoven's big mistake, or possibly a musical joke he was playing on everyone, there is a "period instrument" version of the symphony by Christopher Hogwood that can be enjoyable if you're in the right mood.

Wolfe

Ross

I quite agree, and have Otto as well. Also Erich K and Karl B. But none, in my view, comes close to Carlos K. Staggering to think that it's the only one time he ever conducted the Pastoral.

Just imagine if he could ever have been persuaded to conduct the Wiener or Berliner Philharmoniker in Mahler Nine. All other Mahler conductors would have to have slunk off home.

G

quote:

Originally posted by graham55:
Just imagine if he could ever have been persuaded to conduct the Wiener or Berliner Philharmoniker in Mahler Nine. All other Mahler conductors would have to have slunk off home.

First off, Carlos Kleiber always seemed more of a Furtwängler type and not at all interested in Mahler. Second, I really doubt anyone is ever going to put Bruno Walter (or Otto Klemperer) to shame when it comes to conducting the composer's 9th.

Wolfe

quote:

Originally posted by wolfe_shepmann:
I really doubt anyone is ever going to put Bruno Walter (or Otto Klemperer) to shame when it comes to conducting the composer's 9th.

Wolfe

I think Sir Simon Rattle has a pretty good go in his live recording with the VPO. Karajan's famous recording impresses me, and I can't wait to hear Abbado's new recording.

Dunno what you mean about the 6th being Beethoven's joke - try Op 10, No.2!

EW

EW,

Are you comparing Birmingham Mullet-Boy to the great Bruno Walter?!

Wolfe

That's a great put-down! But great old "Glorious John" Barbirolli made great music with the Berliner Philharmoniker in Mahler Nine in 1964 (I think).

I still maintain, to get back to the thread, that Carlos Kleiber would have beaten all comers. Have seen previous thread suggesting that CK was not a Mahler conductor. But I have two pirate recordings of (the same concert of) Das Lied Von Der Erde which tell a very different story!

G

quote:

It is fast, but by doing so Kleiber illuminates so many facets of the score that it is genuinely a revelatory performance.

I'm reminded of an anecdote in one of LJK Setright's columns.

He was talking to Sandy Jacob after a performance of Daphnis et Chloe conducted by Giulini at the RFH, and remarked on the brilliance of the performance, Jacob's reply was "Giulini took it a bit slower than usual; so, just for once, we had time to play all the notes".

quote:

Originally posted by graham55:
But I have two pirate recordings of (the same concert of) Das Lied Von Der Erde which tell a very different story!

G

Lucky you!!!! Who were the singers?

EW

The singers were Christa Ludwig and Waldemarr Kmentt and the orchestra the Wiener Symphoniker. Recording quality on both is terrible. I think that they were probably recorded onto wax cylinder equipment, but using toilet rolls instead of pristine wax.

G

Would you be prepared to copy this onto a CD?

What? You can't expect to casually drop the fact that you just happen to have a bootleg recording of Kleiber and not expect someone to ask this.

Basil

Don't want to upset Adam over this, so let me have your e-mail address.

G

Basil

You should have received an e-mail.

Adam

No money will be changing hands. Honest!

G

Got it, you have a reply.