Career Decision?: Your wise counsel sought...

Posted by: JonR on 23 January 2005

Hello all,

I am on the brink of a potentially life-changing decision, the immediate consequences of which, should I go ahead and take the plunge, have immediate consequences which petrify me.

I'll summarise the background to all this as concisely as I can. I'm a 35 year old computer programmer working for a US investment bank. The bank, under previous ownership, originally took me on as a temp in the back office back in November 1995. 18 months later I transferred to the IT department to become a programmer on the IBM mainframe system which at that time was the mainstay of all their business processes. Apart from a brief spell doing some minor development projects I have spent almost all my time there on support.

So all in all I have been doing this job nearly ten years (!). About four years ago when our new US owners took over they made a decision to ditch the mainframe in favour of their own US-based mainframe system and various PC-based distributed system 'offshoots'. So basically our mainframe has been 'dying' a long slow death since then. All the time I have continued to 'survive' using the mainframe-only skills I was originally trained with. Repeated failures to get into the new technology side of things has meant I am now stuck with these old-fashioned and (pretty much) non-transferrable skills.

I have spent quite some time as a consequence getting increasingly frustrated and bored, as evidenced by my spending far too much time looking at the internet, much to the obvious annoyance of my boss! (Incidentally, my boss is the guy I originally trained with when I joined the IT department 8 years ago!) Now it turns out that top management have had an urgent meeting as it seems our biggest client is starting to doubt the vfm of our services in view of the protracted time it seems to be taking to transfer the information from our mainframe on to their own systems. It seems the mainframe did more for them than ever was previously envisaged, leading to constantly extended deadlines for the transfer project. This, as you can imagine, is proving quite labour-intensive. As a result, rumour has it that umm... headcount is err.. under review so to speak.

In addition to this, the combined time it takes me to travel to and from work every day is, on a good day, over three hours. That's my working day plus half as much again! Usually this means that most days I do not get home from work till gone 8pm. I am gradually finding how severely this restricts what I can reasonably do in the evenings given my reduced energy levels and often heightened stress levels due to the often unpleasant conditions one finds on public transport nowadays. The only (slight) 'perk' of my job is that I can work flexi- hours which basically means a choice of either 8-4, 9-5 or 10-6. Being able to leave at 4pm is a boon cos the trains are less busy and as winter dies away there's a chance I can actually get home while it's still light! The downside of this, of course, is that in order to leave at 4, I must be in by 8, which means getting up at 5.15 in the morning - not funny.

I have got to the stage where I am no longer committed to a career in IT. I am single and live alone, so this affords me some 'freedom', at least for a limited time, to make the choice I believe I must make.

That choice being, of course, to resign - on Monday.

The advantages, as I seem them, of taking this action are, are that I'll have more TIME to sort out a career-change for myself, lower my stress-levels, take a breather, relax for a bit, look at my options. You should know that I have started re-training to become a driving instructor, but have now got to the stage where I need time in the car almost daily to practice, and with the hourse described above I find I cannot do this. In addition to this I could investigate other career options and take action without the restriction currently imposed by my full-time, dead-end job.

The diadvantages? Well, the biggest one of all, of course, is money. The mortgage won't stop needing to be paid, and the bills will keep coming in. I'll still need to live, and that of course costs money. I would also, of course, no longer know when my next pay packet might be. Life becomes unpredictable all of a sudden, and that, possibly, is the scariest thing of all.

Then again I reckon work would like to sack me anyway, so out of favour do I feel with management, and in any case I do not care all that much. Our appraisals are due soon and I don't want mine because I know it will be terrible. On top of this the bank refused me a payrise last year and our annual office bonus system has been scraped in favour of an apparent industry-wide performance-related bonus system, and I have little chance from benefitting from this given my current attitude and performance levels.

So my question, after all of the above (!), is have any of you been in a similar situation and if so, what did you do and, if you took the plunge, how did you cope? Don't worry, I would never hold the forum responsible for any decisions I subsequently take - I am just genuinely interested to know what those of you to whom this might resonate have done to get to where you are today.

Apologies for the extremely lengthy opening ramble and if you have made it this far you have my thanks!

Any reply, response, word of advice, no matter how trivial or relevant you think it might be all gratefully received.

Many thanks in advance.

Regards,

JR
Posted on: 23 January 2005 by John Channing
If there is any chance of you being made redundant in the near future, do not resign now. With 10 years service at this bank they should hopefully pay you handsomely to leave.
John
Posted on: 23 January 2005 by garyi
Don't resign! Wait for the push.

the first stage will be them asking for voluntary (They have to do this)

Get on board then, this could well give you some money to cover the mortgage for a few months whilst you find other employment.

One other thing I have learnt in life, there is always employment for those willing to work.
Posted on: 23 January 2005 by Steve2701
Jon,
From reading your post twice, I can say this.. You HAVE actually already made up your mind to go.. you just need someone to give you that slight push you need?
If you need that push, then here it is, for right or wrong.
You sound absolutely BORED TO DEATH with what you are now doing.
You have very obviously worked out that you can survive for (X) months without the income that you already have.
You have made the security net that you need by starting to train for a very, very different kind of job.
Have I been in your situation? No.
Have I looked at losing everything inc the family home within 3 weeks.. YES.
Was I so stressed I didnt know what on earth to do? Yes.
I took the leap.
Was it worth it? Very short term, no. Huge stress levels. Short term.. got better. Now.. Way better, I even now manage to have two nice jobs, friends, and family. (& I re-discovered just what chilling to music can do, after a ten year forced break)
Can the above be applied to your situation? Doubtful, but you did ask.....
I have some friends (Single, both male & female) that look at me & say that I have everything they would love, family and security & loads to do. I look at them sometimes & think.. what I would do to be in there situation...... but that is life, pure & simple. (& no, I wouldnt change what I now have, thank you, but it is human nature to daydream afterall.)
I no clue as to whether this helps or not. Only you can actually decide, if you havent already.
You do have a lot of things going for you still!
Oh, a few other things that you already know..
You will be dead for a very long time.
This is not a dress rehersal.. so get it right now or never.
There are actually NO pockets in a death robe.
( All pearls of wisdom that have been passed to me at various times in the last ten years, & we all know them to be correct)
Posted on: 23 January 2005 by Ian Hughes
Jon,

No-one on his deathbed, said "I wish I spent more time at the office". It's your life and you only have one of them. By that, I mean that you obviously have little or no motivation to remain where you are, and have put plans into place for a career change. Well done for that.

One thing you touched on, and I believe makes the difference between success and failure when pursuing a career change is the one of detailed planning.

> How long will it be after you've qualified, and the money starts to come in from your new job?
> Will you have training costs to bear?
> Will you have loans to be paid off?
> The bills still needing to be paid. Therefore, you need to work out your budget in some detail. Budget for essentials only. Mortgage, council tax, food etc. Forget hifi upgrades, savings etc - that can come later.

Before resigning, can you float the idea of redundancy? It might entail you staying a bit longer, but potentially you could come away with a little bit of severance money, which would ease the transition. Additionally, government money for career re-training can be investigated after redundancy, but not after resignation.

Are there any short term (3-6 month) contracts closer to home you could look at, which would get away from your obviously unsuitable present job and allow you to build up a financial cushion.

Once you've done that, you can see much more clearly on how you need to structure your transition plan, and how long you will have to do it.

Good luck.

Ian
Posted on: 23 January 2005 by 7V
JR,

The advice given by John and Gary is absolutely sound. Do not resign.

Once you're out, hopefully with a good compensation package, you can start a career as a driving instructor or whatever else takes your fancy. Hopefully, you'll be in a position to take your time in deciding.

Alternatively, it wouldn't take long to retrain in an area of IT work that pays well and has a good future. With your abilities and experience I'm sure that you could waltz into a new, well-paid position.

Good luck with it.

Regards
Steve M
Posted on: 23 January 2005 by JonR
Some quick responses there, thanks guys.

John and Garyi,

Initially I was slightly surprised by your responses, I must admit, but OTOH I can see the wisdom of hanging on and waiting for them to make the move, so to speak.

However, I note your last statement, Garyi:-

"One other thing I have learnt in life, there is always employment for those willing to work."

I would hope that that might count in my favour - thanks!

Cheers,

JR
Posted on: 23 January 2005 by Paul Hutchings
I always think the time to walk away from anything is when you wake up in the morning and can't stand what you know you're going to have to spend the day doing - but that's easy said, money is usually the issue long after you decide what you want to do.

As Garyi said waiting a short while to see if voluntary comes along might be an option, but if you can hate the job and can reconcile the money side of things walking might be the right thing to do.

Is it an option to take a week or two off?

That might give you a bit of time to think some more and look at your options without the background stress/hassle of work?

cheers,
Paul
Posted on: 23 January 2005 by Mick P
Jon

A couple of points.

1. I think you best hold back until you are made redundant. The cash can be used to dent your mortgage or help your start up costs in a new job.

2. Redundancy packages often include courses on what to do next in your life etc....so why resign now and throw it all away.

3. This is the main point....employers do not look favourably on people who resigned without another job lined up because they were fed up. It denotes a potential problem of an unprofessional approach as you could look like a quitter.

Their concern is that you could get fed up with them and just walk out, but with 10 years under your belt, that is less of an issue. But a single chap walking out of a job, does not inspire confidence.

I would sit tight, let them know you are a willing victim (if the price is right...you got to negotiate here) and then look elsewhere on the strength of a financial package.

I took early retirement at age 55 with 36 yrs purchasing experience behind me.

I want to work for 6 months a year until Mrs Mick retires herself.

I find I have two choices.

1. Take a highly paid role in purchasing because I can easily sell my experience. I actually turn work down and am bloody fussy what I take.

2. Take a job doing something totally different but at considerably lower pay. Lack of experience always equates to poor pay.

I chose the high paid, short term purchasing roles. Basically I like my greenbacks.

You have the advantage of youth. The IT market is improving and you should be able to find something decent in the industry. Aim for something less teckie and more commercial as the prospects tend to be better.

With a nice fat cheque in the bank, you can take your time to find something that you want to do, rather than have to do.

Good luck

Mick
Posted on: 23 January 2005 by JonR
Steve2701 - Thanks for the very detailed reply. You are right about one thing - I definitely could NOT afford to stay out of work for 10 years! The rest of your answer was most illuminating though!

In fact to answer briefly a question in Ian Hughes' excellent post, I did some rough calculations in my head on the way home on Friday night and reckoned that with my current reserves I could probably afford to live for about 6 months before I had to seriously worry about future income. That's basically taking into account my mortgage payments which consitute the bulk of my outgoings each month. I suppose when you factor in things like council tax, food, other sundry bills and the upkeep of my car, then the 6 months might become 5 or less if I'm not careful!

Oh yeah, I've got all the hifi upgrades I could possibly ever want at the moment (!) and the only outstanding loans I have, apart from the mortgage of course, are my credit card bill which fortunately is low this month, and my season ticket loan from work, which I'd have to pay back in full of course!

A word about redundancy:- not sure how I would 'float' the idea, apart from a quiet little phoncall to HR but if management get a sniff of my enquiries I may well be history already!

[To give my employers their due, they have kept us on during a very tricky few years when all about them were losing their heads and shedding thousands of employees at a stroke. However they will do everything in their power to avoid paying out!]

As a said in my earlier post, I wasn't taken on as permanent member of staff until April 1997, plus the fact that that was by a different employer/owner! Ownership of the company passed to the US bank three years later, so whether that means my term of employment is deemed as 8 years or 5 years I'm not sure.

Even if the answer is 8 years, whether I can last another two years or the decision is made for me in that time I'm not so sure!

Cheers,

JR
Posted on: 23 January 2005 by HTK
Jon. If there's any posibility for redundancy, hang on for it. I was in a similar situation to you in 2002. There was nothing wrong with my work performance but I was deeply unhappy. I kept my eyes peeled for another postion in the industry (although they were few and far between) and just kept going (the money was good). Then - shock horror! they needed redundancies. I was told not to apply but they couldn't stop me, so here I am. And never happier.

Do NOT under any circumstances offer to resign. You'll get nothing. If you think your work circumstances and poor management are getting you down to the extent that you just don't care anymore, go visit your GP and get a month off for work related stress. You can keep this up for a few months whilst having a really good look around for a proper job.

As a manager, I was frustrated but powerless by people throwing sickies just to get some time off. But if your management is so piss poor that they're making you want to throw it all away, then give them the finger and get some time off.

FWIW and IMO.

Cheers

Harry
Posted on: 23 January 2005 by Berlin Fritz
The 'don't resign', advice in your present situation is probably the soundest ! though the million dollar question that defines your next actions is what kind of person you are ? Unlike the lucky 'yes men' who'd worked in situ for eternity and know it all, in reality know nothing other than their own experiences, which are limited to put it mildly, irresspecrtive of what position they held, their outgoings are still relative to their incomes. I personally having had resigned from a few positions in the past 25 odd years (for different reasons) as well as recently being fired for the very first time, have played the game so to speak. Without major debts or family committments, and relatively good health 'Physical, and more importantly Psycholocal' your instincts should guide you. I personally would (it's a bank afterall) ask for an interview with the biggest boss yopu can get (don't be afraid), don't talk to anybody else about it (others possibly in similar positions) because when the push comes to a shove, you are totally on your owm, and NO FUCKER WILL HELP YOU: Lay your cards on the table, wether your a cleaner, or a programmer, get 'written', assurance along the lines of your contract ? don't get bitter, don't allow yourself to be provoked into going sick and becoming depressed etc (classic tactics), get some redundancy, more time, knowledge of yopur next move (and theirs which should be to your mutual benefits) . Enjoy teaching driving (well needed in Wiltshire I hear ?) and return to IT as a hobby, slowly rekindling the inmitial love for it you obviously once had through courses etc, hopefully paid for by grumpy old comfortably off early retirement merchants like our Micky, innit.

Good Luck John.

Fritz Von Take a holiday when it's sorted too:

Ps. Don't forget yer CV Winker
Posted on: 23 January 2005 by Camlan
Jon

Period of employment - AFAIK the owner of the business makes no difference to the period of your employment which as a minimum will commence at the point when you were taken onto the permanent staff.

I also work in the finance industry albeit in a far different role to yours. One of my job 'bolt ons'is to hear appeals against dismissal, accordingly I have a fair bit of experience re tribunals etc. With this background I can say that it will be virtually impossible to sack you for poor performance without taking you down a very tortuous road of warnings etc. My organisation, and it is very large, has never actually sacked anybody for poor performance - gross misconduct yes, poor performance no.

Take it therefore as read that if your employers want to get rid of you they will almost certainly need to offer a redundancy package of some sort.

I believe your way forward is to discuss your position with (as said above) the highest ranking manager you can find (HR will probably be a good start) and fully explain your reservations about your present role. See what transpires from this.

As said above, in no circumstance resign, at least not at this stage. That's what they want.
Posted on: 23 January 2005 by seagull
Jon,

I work in IT and can sympathise with your situation. I can echo what others have said. Don't resign tomorrow!

I went through something similar about 15 months ago - basically my job had hit the buffers, the company had too many senior technical people and not enough roles. I had got pissed off with them and they eventually offered me a deal which I grabbed and ran before they changed their minds.

I went contracting and have been working virtually non-stop since. I'm actually at work now Eek but at least I'm getting paid for it! (Mrs S says it can go towards my speaker fund Smile) Not a career change exactly, but certainly a different way of living/working. Career pressures have been lifted and the peer pressure to work long hours for no reward has vanished as well (I usually ignored it anyway). I'm now earning far more than I was for a much less demanding job

Your term of employment is 8 years (it's from the date that you joined the original company).

See HR, they cannot sack you for asking about redundancy and any conversation with them should be confidential. Find out what package, if any, is available for voluntary redundancy and whether there is any likelihood of redundancies in the near future (they probably won't tell you that, but no harm in asking)

There are other factors that may affect your position...


  • How many others are in the same boat as you?
  • Are they likely to be cheaper to offload than you (some people are too expensive to lay off, due to longevity or salary levels and the company will generally hope they resign).
  • Are your skills unique within the department and are they necessary for the smooth running of the system? This will work against you for voluntary redundancy.


As a stop gap, have a look on Jobserve for contract/temp jobs with your skills, you may be able to find something there. A change of environment may be all you really need. I think you are past that stage though, I seem to remember reading some hints about career changes in some of your recent posts.

Apologies if this post just re-states what others have said I'm writing this in the pauses while my rather large queries run against a very slow database.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.
Posted on: 23 January 2005 by Chunny Nochubb
Jon

Notwithstanding Seagull's comments about HR, here's a few comments from the otherside of the job market

1. Use your spare time at work and your commuting time to work on what you want in your next job or career, don’t assume that you will focus better on the task just because you have no money coming in, you might just spend the time fretting.
2. Try reading “What color is your parachute” as recommended by Derek Wright on this forum – it is American but I found it of use in helping to try to understand what is involved in changing careers
3. Wherever possible continue to commute at the least crowded times, as you live alone no one is preventing you from going to bed early when you have early starts.
4. I think you should keep your cards close to your chest at work and wait for them to come to you in the event that redundancy is a possibility. It may be that you will have sorted everything out and will be ready go without getting redundancy, or you might have to take redundancy beforehand, but you usually get a chance to work some notice and then they will be actually paying you to find a new job.
5. Are you absolutely clear in your mind why you find the job stressful and how you could avoid this stress in future jobs? Not commuting – certainly will reduce the stress, but it could dramatically reduce the salary. For me, I would never consider becoming a driving instructor as I would find it way too stressful
6. I have recently been counselling an ex-colleague who is trying to find another job as she is working in the “most boring job in the world” where she finishes her daily work before lunchtime and has even shortened her working hours at her own expense, and guess what – she (currently employed) gets the interviews, I (her ex-boss and currently unemployed) don’t. Without continuity of employment you have to work a lot harder to even get interviews.

Good luck and I don't believe your comments about upgrading.
Posted on: 23 January 2005 by Steve2701
Jon,
As you can easily see, all but mine say stay. I should have put a 'caveat' at the end of mine... I have been employed by one person only since 1978,.. myself. I therefore do not have the word 'redundancy' in my vocabulary!
The trick will therefore be to balance the value of any redundancy against all the other stuff...........
Posted on: 23 January 2005 by Rasher
Jon - Whatever you decide to do, you cannot blame yourself in the future for whatever your decision is today; you are here now and make that choice yourself. In reality you have made your decision already and just want us to reassure you that you decision is correct, but we can't do that. What I can say is that whichever the choice, it will be the right one for you now. But be strong and believe in yourself and your ability to be a success either way. I've done both: stayed on somewhere and later gone on my own. Different paths both lead somewhere, so be strong and do what you feel is right, because it will be in the end.
Good luck, even though luck isn't really in it.
Posted on: 23 January 2005 by Jay
Ok you asked for it Jon!

Here's some advice from someone who has yet to resign with another job to go to! Actually I've only resigned once because I was feed up and I only did that because I was a cocky (read stupid) bastard. Having said that I was offered a job not 6 weeks later for a lot more money whilst I was on holiday. I inconsiderately had to cut back my holiday Winker

As a bit of back ground, I've worked primarily for multi-nationals and in marketing. So a little different but your bank will probably be as up-tight as most of the companies I've worked for...

1. DO NOT resign. Well not yet anyway.

2. DO NOT tell them your plans unless you trust them. It doesn't sound like you do.

3. Pick up your work performance! I know it's really really hard but you need to do it. Not for them, but for yourself. The last thing you want to do is leave and feel like you haven't done a good job. Trust me, it's you who'll get the return, not them!

4. It sounds like you are stuck in a routine, there's nothing new to look forward to. Try to "create something" at work and and revel in it. Take something you normally do and do it in a different way, experiment.

5. I could look for a new job "if"....I could be happy "if".....I could be fit "if"......Well we all have the big "if" in our lives and it's not a very good excuse because "if" is actually NOW. It's a great way of procrastinating and tricking ourselves. So any looking for jobs then do it NOW. Sounds like you've plenty of time at work!

6. Any financials you do now, half them. Use the positively worst case scenario. You're financially happy for 6 months? Well cut that to 3.

7. It sounds like you are running from that performance review? If it's going to be bad and it should be bad, then face up to it and take it on the chin. Learn from it and don't let it "force" you into making any decisions. Also tell them that you hate your job and why. Be genuine and ask them what your options are? Put the ball into their court. Get your boss to recognise that this problem is as much his as yours.

8. Think it over why you posted here and asked this question? Really think about it and be honest with yourself. That may just give you your own answers...

I know you've probably been thinking about this for months and now it's got too much, but just wait. From the way you describe your situation there's positive signs you'll be offered redundancy. Even if it doesn't happen, leave on your own terms and knowing that you're going to something/somewhere better!

Jay
Posted on: 23 January 2005 by Martin Clark
JonR - I'd echo those who say 'don't resign'. You may in an uncomfortable position, but play it for all it is worth.

I'd also suggest you re-read the recent redundancy thread. There were some very candid posts on making the most of opportunities when facing this sort of crossroads, from people who have been there - and are now here.
Posted on: 23 January 2005 by Hawk
Jon

There has been plenty of comprehensive and valid advise already so i wont repeat it but ill add another vote to the dont resign camp.. id add a YET to that though!

Reading between the lines of what you have said one of the biggest issues i see is to put you back in a position of control. Put simply what ever you do should be because thats what you want to do, not what you feel forced to do.... It will make you feel a whole lot better knowing you could comfortably walk if you needed to! and it will make hanging on to play the game much easier.

I was faced with a situation about 6 years ago now that share many of the features you describe and the first thing i did was to focus on 'buying myself some choices'

I started with housekeeping (not the dusting variety!) basically putting my finances in order and in effect i started to save up to leave! and I also took out redundancy cover (be clear of the small print as you have to remain employed for a period of time before these would pay out) and i went to the local temp agencies to value myself... ie to get a feel for worst case scenario. Just a couple of days a week could extend your 6 month buffer to 9 and still leave 3 days a week to pursue other interests.

Next step was to plan my time, and to focus on getting the best return on it, and im not talking just financially here im talking wellbeing... Having made the decision that i was leaving or losing my job the first area i looked at was my holiday entitlement. Two choices, save it for the payout or use it to protect your sanity.. booking one or two days off every other week and using it for taking positive steps gives you something to look forward to and can help break up the cycle. Then of course there is your work time and travel time itself, the later being a good opportunity to read up and do your homework.

Next Step, Put together a stonking CV whilst you have the time to get it right, rather than leaving it and having to rush one for a an interview the next day. Start prospecting with it... It will do your confidence the world of good if you can get a few people to show an interest. Also it will be good practise to go for a few interviews, even for less than ideal jobs, and if you foul up it wont be a big deal... best make the mistakes and learn from them whilst you still have your current job to fall back on!!!

I'll stop rambling now Jon! but at the end of the day your the boss, id say dont run.. but equally dont wait for something to happen before you do something... go get a headstart..

A new job and a redundancy payment to fund the CDS3... now that would be a result!!!!
Posted on: 23 January 2005 by Chunny Nochubb
Further to Jay’s no.7 - Appraisal Time

Question - What is the worst thing that could happen as a result of your appraisal?
Answer – You get the sack – you know that already which is why you are thinking of jumping instead – but as everyone else says, this is very unlikely to happen.

Will the appraisal be with your direct boss only, because he is in the same boat as you and just because you are aware of his obvious annoyance he does not seem to be doing anything constructive about your situation, and if he was any good as a manager he would not wait until the appraisals to actually discuss the situation - so to carry this further he probably does not enjoy the appraisal process either.

As Jay says you want answers from them - to questions such as why you not allowed to transfer into other areas, and there understanding as to how demotivating to you, their actions were.

The HR dept of the last American company I worked for gave training to managers as to how to approach appraisal – here is an extract:
“Start by discussing things an individual does well.”
“Focus on behaviour not personality”
“Ask questions rather than make statements” – this approach allows individuals to reach their own conclusions” – but you are looking for answers so make sure you ask questions.
“In case of stalemate – Acknowledge their disagreement – and ask for reasons why they feel this way – avoid becoming personal”
I am sure they all work out of the same textbook and would suggest that you appear to be genuinely seeking answers rather than looking for arguments.
Posted on: 23 January 2005 by JonR
Guys,

Thanks again for all your incredibly and detailed helpful replies. The roll-call is impressive - why, even Mick and Fritz have posted some advice here! I am chuffed. Thanks to all.

Martin, the thread in your link is excellent, thanks for this. A lot of the material in there is very pertinent to my current situation and I was particularly struck by TomK's experiences and his courage and honesty in relating them on this, a public forum. TomK if you're reading this, my thanks to you.

Camlan, Seagull, Rasher, Hawk:- wise words all - you have really made me stop and think. Jay, you're right, I did ask for it, didn't I?! To answer your last question, I had talked about this with someone last night and my companion was in no doubt - resign! I was ready to do just that, but since becoming a member of these forums I have increasingly come to recognise the breadth of experience and backgrounds of members here. I just wanted to tap into that to see what the response would be. And I have to say, the response has been overwhelming!

Cheers,

JR
Posted on: 23 January 2005 by JonR
Chunny Nochubb,

Thank you for your advice and insights. About you not believing my comment about upgrades - I have a feeling you might be right!

Tell you what, though; according to your location you're south of Watford. I am east of Watford and Hawk is north of Watford! Perhaps we could all meet up one day (in Watford? Smile ) to support each other through these trying times (when upgraditis strikes) !!!

Cheers,

JR
Posted on: 24 January 2005 by Chunny Nochubb
Jon R

It would be interesting for me to find out if there are real people on this forum.

I was thinking of trying to arrange a meeting one day with Garyi but he must have read my mind and dissapeared out of the area. I am also convinced that Mick Parry and Matthew R are one and the same person as well as various other regulars.

you can email me on chunnynochubb@beeb.net, and yes I have a cure for your ungraditis
Posted on: 24 January 2005 by kevj
Jon,

I can't offer any better advice than those who've already contributed to this thread, but I'd just like to wish you all the best in this difficult time. We spend the largest parts of our life in work, and when that time is not good time, life's quite hard.

Good luck.
Posted on: 24 January 2005 by Deane F
quote:
Originally posted by Chunny Nochubb:
I am also convinced that Mick Parry and Matthew R are one and the same person as well as various other regulars.


Chunny Nochubb

What's your theory on Berlin Fritz?